Tonight's football thread

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Originally Posted by duncz

Give Rodgers the credit for the for the improvement from seventh to second. He improved the team with limited funds also he missed out on some players because of no champions league.I see no reason why we can't get stronger next season but so will other teams. To predict next season positions is now is just silly. Van Gaal is going to be pre-occupied with Holland so don't expect instant results from him. You keep saying that you need only 2 key players. You need a new midfield and defence.

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We need two midfielders and a centre back (assuming the Shaw deal is in the bag) - it's hardly a whole new midfield and defence.

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Originally Posted by IainR

Toure is doing the classic.. 31.. one last big contract... wait 2 years and he's 33 no big contract..

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If we sell a 31 year old, we aren't giving away our future, and Barca wouldn't be buying much of one. IF we could replace him with a top notch mid 20's player, I'd consider it sharp business.:cool:

PS - Yaya is surely worth a "giggsy says happy birthday yaya" plane/banner? :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by duncz

If all the players you mention are that good why are you spending £150 million on new players.

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I doubt we will.. City spent 100 million on their team.. I think we'll see 60-70 million..

But you spend money.. the fact remains that team were champions 12 months ago...

Mark Croasdale's lad Ryan has been released by Preston, he's been on loan at Tamworth and Stalybridge this season

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Originally Posted by IainR

We need a few players but I think a key central mid and a left back will see us fine, 3-4 will make us champions...

We have Rooney, Welbeck, Van Persie, Chico, Wilson up front.. 5 goal scorers...

Midfield: Mata, Kagawa, Cleverly, Carrick, Fletcher, Januzaj, Young, Valencia, Zaha, Feliaini... most of them have done well at other top clubs or United...

Defence: Rafael, Smalling, Jones, Evans, Buttner, Keane

Keeper De Gea.. about the best there is..

To say we need a new team just shows monstrous ignorance of english and world football...

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3 or 4 new players and you'll be champions? I can't see it. I agree you've got some class attacking players in Rooney, RVP, Kagawa, Mata and Januzaj. Can they all play in the same XI? Probably not and all the other players you list are somewhere between decent top half premier league players (e.g. Carrick and Fletcher) and expensive shite (e.g. Young and Fellaini). Apart from De Gea who's fantastic. I'd say your central mid-field and defence needs a total overhaul. Shaw would be a good start, but I'd go another 5 or 6 new faces on top of that to have a squad capable of challenging for the league.

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Originally Posted by Hank

3 or 4 new players and you'll be champions? I can't see it. I agree you've got some class attacking players in Rooney, RVP, Kagawa, Mata and Januzaj. Can they all play in the same XI? Probably not and all the other players you list are somewhere between decent top half premier league players (e.g. Carrick and Fletcher) and expensive shite (e.g. Young and Fellaini). Apart from De Gea who's fantastic. I'd say your central mid-field and defence needs a total overhaul. Shaw would be a good start, but I'd go another 5 or 6 new faces on top of that to have a squad capable of challenging for the league.

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Shaw
Hummels
Strootman
Fabregas

4 players and we'd be well up there. I don't know where this 5 or 6 players has come from. Wishful thinking on behalf of other clubs' fans?

Young, Nani, Cleverly, Fellaini to leave. Zaha & Powell to come back (Van Gaal will give them a chance) and the squad actually looks quite healthy.

People are writing off Utd because the players had a bad year last year, under a manager who didn't know what system to play and kept putting square pegs in round holes. Van Gaal will play to the squad's strengths and make the system fit the players at his disposal; many players who had bad seasons last year will come good IMO.

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Originally Posted by TheHeathens

I don't know where this 5 or 6 players has come from. Wishful thinking on behalf of other clubs' fans?

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What's your preferred starting XI with the current squad then? I don't doubt the current lot plus another 3 or 4 would end up higher in the league than you've just finished, but I think you'd need more to make a serious challenge for the title.

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Originally Posted by Hank

What's your preferred starting XI with the current squad then? I don't doubt the current lot plus another 3 or 4 would end up higher in the league than you've just finished, but I think you'd need more to make a serious challenge for the title.

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Remember we were champions this time last May. We've been mismanaged for one year - the players haven't become awful overnight.

1. De Gea
2. Buttner (Shaw)
3. Jones / Smalling (Hummels)
4. Evans
5. Rafael
6. Januzaj
7. Carrick (Strootman)
8. Fletcher (Fabregas)
9. Zaha
10. Mata / Rooney
11. Rooney / RVP

New signings to replace / challenge Buttner, Carrick, Fletcher and Smalling. We'd have to see how Zaha starts performing.

I don't think we'll be challenging this year, even with new signings, but we'll be up there the following season.

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Originally Posted by TheHeathens

Remember we were champions this time last May. We've been mismanaged for one year - the players haven't become awful overnight.

1. De Gea
2. Buttner (Shaw)
3. Jones / Smalling (Hummels)
4. Evans
5. Rafael
6. Januzaj
7. Carrick (Strootman)
8. Fletcher (Fabregas)
9. Zaha
10. Mata / Rooney
11. Rooney / RVP

New signings to replace / challenge Buttner, Carrick, Fletcher and Smalling. We'd have to see how Zaha starts performing.

I don't think we'll be challenging this year, even with new signings, but we'll be up there the following season.

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Interesting. I get the argument that pretty much that squad won the championship a year ago, but a quick bit of research shows Vidic and Rio combined played as many league games as Evans, Jones and Smalling combined. The latter three wouldn't have been playing exclusively at the back whilst Rio and Vidic were regularly paired at centre-back, so really what's missing now (and in 13-14) was a solid central defence pairing.

I do rate Evans and Jones as good players, but not a championship winning foundation for a team. So that's 2 new players needed. Evra's passed it now, so make that 3. Rafael? We'll let him off. Cracking young player, but with the faint whiff of liability never too far away.

Zaha, Fletcher, Carrick and Januzaj as midfield group? Jury's very much out on Zaha. Januzaj's got bags of potential and has already looked superb in a few matches, but don't think he's ready yet to be a permanent fixture in the first team. Fletcher works hard and probably has more quality than people give him credit for. Likewise Carrick to some extent. But the two of 'em as mainstays in a championship challenging side? I can't see it when compared to what Man City, Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal have to offer. They're miles off. I'm wanting another 3 or 4 players in there if you're challenging for the title.

Up front you could well have the best line-up in the league. I'd love to see RVP, Rooney and Mata given the opportunity to rip it up a bit.

So, yeah, plenty of new players needed in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Hank

Interesting. I get the argument that pretty much that squad won the championship a year ago, but a quick bit of research shows Vidic and Rio combined played as many league games as Evans, Jones and Smalling combined. The latter three wouldn't have been playing exclusively at the back whilst Rio and Vidic were regularly paired at centre-back, so really what's missing now (and in 13-14) was a solid central defence pairing.

I do rate Evans and Jones as good players, but not a championship winning foundation for a team. So that's 2 new players needed. Evra's passed it now, so make that 3. Rafael? We'll let him off. Cracking young player, but with the faint whiff of liability never too far away.

Zaha, Fletcher, Carrick and Januzaj as midfield group? Jury's very much out on Zaha. Januzaj's got bags of potential and has already looked superb in a few matches, but don't think he's ready yet to be a permanent fixture in the first team. Fletcher works hard and probably has more quality than people give him credit for. Likewise Carrick to some extent. But the two of 'em as mainstays in a championship challenging side? I can't see it when compared to what Man City, Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal have to offer. They're miles off. I'm wanting another 3 or 4 players in there if you're challenging for the title.

Up front you could well have the best line-up in the league. I'd love to see RVP, Rooney and Mata given the opportunity to rip it up a bit.

So, yeah, plenty of new players needed in my opinion.

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And a year ago.. would you have said Skertel and Agger would be a defensive partnership to go for the title? Lucas and Henderson?

No... They went from 7th to 2nd with good management.. yet suddenly even scouse fans seem to think we have to spend the 100's of millions that they didn't need to....

2-3 players and we'll contend with anyone.. City have spent 100's of millions but despite Chelsea's wealth I think this squad is pretty weak...

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Originally Posted by IainR

And a year ago.. would you have said Skertel and Agger would be a defensive partnership to go for the title? Lucas and Henderson?

No... They went from 7th to 2nd with good management.. yet suddenly even scouse fans seem to think we have to spend the 100's of millions that they didn't need to....

2-3 players and we'll contend with anyone.. City have spent 100's of millions but despite Chelsea's wealth I think this squad is pretty weak...

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Fair enough shout on Liverpool, I wouldn't have predicted they'd have ended up where they did.

But look at these midfields:

Chelsea - Oscar, Hazard, Schurrle, Matic, Willian, Salah, Mikel, Ramires, Lampard

Arsenal - Wilshire, Ozil, Ramsey, Walcott, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Flamini, Carzola, Arteta, Diaby, Rosicky

Man City - Toure (happy birthday!), Nasri, Fernandinho, Silva, Navas, Garcia, Milner, Rodwell, Barry

Obviously not all these players will still be there at the start of next season, but still. Can United really compete with that lot? I don't think you've got anything like enough weight in midfield.

You said what's your best line up of the CURRENT squad. I gave it.

Jones is a class player - he just hasn't been given the game time in defence and been used as a utility player. Given a run at the back, he's easily as good as any other English defender. Evans was injured. Smalling isn't good enough to be a first XI player but a good fall back, a la Wes Brown.

A new left back (Shaw) is a must and we probably need a new centre back (Hummels) but, more importantly, we need to settle on a back 4.

12 months ago, Carrick was our player of the year - he's not gone bad overnight but is coming to the end of his career. Fletcher was class but probably needs replacing. Januzaj was actually too protected last year by Moyes (like he did with Barkley at Everton) and will build on a good first season - if they're good enough, they're old enough.

I think Zaha will shine under Van Gaal (and perhaps won't sh*g his daughter!) - he showed enough at Palace to make me believe he can do a job in a team with direction. We also have Valencia who can play in that position.

Fabregas and Strootman in for the central midfielders.

So we need 3 or 4 players, not 5 or 6, which is exactly what I said.

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Originally Posted by TheHeathens

You said what's your best line up of the CURRENT squad. I gave it.

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So we need 3 or 4 players, not 5 or 6, which is exactly what I said.

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Indeed. I think you need more. We shall agree to disagree!

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Originally Posted by Hank

Fair enough shout on Liverpool, I wouldn't have predicted they'd have ended up where they did.

But look at these midfields:

Chelsea - Oscar, Hazard, Schurrle, Matic, Willian, Salah, Mikel, Ramires, Lampard

Arsenal - Wilshire, Ozil, Ramsey, Walcott, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Flamini, Carzola, Arteta, Diaby, Rosicky

Man City - Toure (happy birthday!), Nasri, Fernandinho, Silva, Navas, Garcia, Milner, Rodwell, Barry

Obviously not all these players will still be there at the start of next season, but still. Can United really compete with that lot? I don't think you've got anything like enough weight in midfield.

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These were similar midfields to when United won the title in 2013... We've lost Scholes and Giggs who were bit part players anyway, added Januzaj, Mata, Zaha and Felliani.. add another central midfielder and we'll be as strong as then.

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Originally Posted by IainR

These were similar midfields to when United won the title in 2013... We've lost Scholes and Giggs who were bit part players anyway, added Januzaj, Mata, Zaha and Felliani.. add another central midfielder and we'll be as strong as then.

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We'll see. It'll certainly be an interesting season if United strengthen. Will City have Toure? If not, who will they buy to replace him? Who will they buy anyway? Likewise Chelsea and Liverpool.

"By the time of his dismissal, Louis van Gaal had alienated players and members of the Bayern board alike"

Sounds like another Moyes in the making :D

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Originally Posted by Hank

We'll see. It'll certainly be an interesting season if United strengthen. Will City have Toure? If not, who will they buy to replace him? Who will they buy anyway? Likewise Chelsea and Liverpool.

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I dont think Toure is a big loss, with his build he'll put on weight and lose his speed early.. he's 31 and knows he needs 1 last big contract... as Danbert says, sell him now, buy someone 8 years younger.. Rooney has done similar twice but with more years still to play, but if he tries it again I think he'd be allowed to go..

Pogba may well leave Juve..

Liverpool depends if they sell Suarez, a good world cup and I think he'll go.. if not I don't think they have much to spend.

Chelsea aren't a spending club the same so I dont think we'll see huge moves and the same with City after their punishment..

I can't see any of the top 5 or 6 spending huge sums to be honest, I think we'll spend more than anyone; Everton need to replace or buy Barry and Lukaku... Spurs spent the Bale funds last year..

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Originally Posted by Alf

"By the time of his dismissal, Louis van Gaal had alienated players and members of the Bayern board alike"

Sounds like another Moyes in the making :D

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He is a gamble, he's a winner but he's also a wrecking ball.. I liked when he walked into one team and dropped his trousers to show them his balls to say he has the balls to drop them all..

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Originally Posted by TheHeathens

You said what's your best line up of the CURRENT squad. I gave it.

Jones is a class player - he just hasn't been given the game time in defence and been used as a utility player. Given a run at the back, he's easily as good as any other English defender. Evans was injured. Smalling isn't good enough to be a first XI player but a good fall back, a la Wes Brown.

A new left back (Shaw) is a must and we probably need a new centre back (Hummels) but, more importantly, we need to settle on a back 4.

12 months ago, Carrick was our player of the year - he's not gone bad overnight but is coming to the end of his career. Fletcher was class but probably needs replacing. Januzaj was actually too protected last year by Moyes (like he did with Barkley at Everton) and will build on a good first season - if they're good enough, they're old enough.

I think Zaha will shine under Van Gaal (and perhaps won't sh*g his daughter!) - he showed enough at Palace to make me believe he can do a job in a team with direction. We also have Valencia who can play in that position.

Fabregas and Strootman in for the central midfielders.

So we need 3 or 4 players, not 5 or 6, which is exactly what I said.

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I think Smalling is a good center half, he's just not a good enough footballer to be a full back, you need to be a very very good footballer, like Cole or Lahm to be a full back in the modern game, 10 years ago he would have been OK, in todays game he just offers us little.

I'd keep him, like you say good option.

Jones needs to sort out these injuries, I thought Keane was wrong, he's been class in games as a center half or center mid, but he needs to stop getting injured.

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Originally Posted by TheHeathens

So we need 3 or 4 players, not 5 or 6, which is exactly what I said.

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Originally Posted by Hank

Indeed. I think you need more. We shall agree to disagree!

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Originally Posted by Hank

They're miles off. I'm wanting another 3 or 4 players in there if you're challenging for the title.

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It would appear we don't! ;)

Van Gaal on Strootman:

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"Success at United doesn't depend on money, but about which players we bring in," he told NOS. "I gave my wishlist to the club. Is Kevin Strootman on it? A question for you, a fact for me."

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Better than Moyes's "We'll do our best to sign him"

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Originally Posted by TheHeathens

I'll have a forum name change bet with you then...? The winner chooses the loser's forum name for a full season.

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What's the bet then?

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Originally Posted by Stagger

What's the bet then?

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Originally Posted by Stagger

Time will tell but I don't see your lot in the CL next season Iain.

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Originally Posted by TheHeathens

I'll have a forum name change bet with you then...? The winner chooses the loser's forum name for a full season.

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That Utd will finish in the top 4 next season.

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Originally Posted by TheHeathens

It would appear we don't! ;)

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3 or 4 midfielders. Plus another 3 in defence.

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Originally Posted by Hank

3 or 4 midfielders. Plus another 3 in defence.

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Come on mate. You must think that Alex Ferguson is actually God then considering what he achieved with such a crap crap squad!

When we won it in 2013, we had the worst defence of the top 4 but the best attack. Fergie played to our strength, Moyes tried to turn us into a defensive side when we didn't have the personnel. You're not factoring in the effect of the manager, who has made good players look poor this season by being a poor tactician.

https://scontent-b-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/...02180306_n.jpg

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Originally Posted by dominion

https://scontent-b-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/...02180306_n.jpg

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Poor guy..

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co....-kroos-7154862

If true thats a huge signing... if Shaw happens, which seems to be on the cards, just a center back and we'll be in fine fettle... a center half isn't essential as we have 4..

It'll be interesting what happens with Valencia, he could be a superb wing back...

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Originally Posted by IainR

Poor guy..

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co....-kroos-7154862

If true thats a huge signing... if Shaw happens, which seems to be on the cards, just a center back and we'll be in fine fettle... a center half isn't essential as we have 4..

It'll be interesting what happens with Valencia, he could be a superb wing back...

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Still all ifs and buts at the moment which we also had last year. We need to complete a signing soon.

Giggs and Ince to Internazionale. You heard it here first

I've always thought Scholesy speaks a lot of sense.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/27517443

Celtic want David Moyes to replace Neil Lennon who left the club today.
They want to give the other team a chance! :D

Happy Birthday to you
Happy Birthday to you
Happy Birthday dear Yaya
Happy Birthday to you
:D

United shouldn't have hired Van de Gaal, they should have hired the bloke who broke his nose. He would have sorted the dressing room out :eek:

Toure wants a long-term role at City....and more attention....

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co....ielder-7155066

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Originally Posted by Hank

I've always thought Scholesy speaks a lot of sense.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/27517443

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Surprising because the bulk of the team have won numerous titles..

Valencia, Rafael, De Gea, Jones, Smalling, Evans,

If we bring in Shaw and possibly a center half we're sorted... then Kroos has supposedly come in.. Kroos and Carrick in the middle, fletcher, Feliani and Cleverly as back up, Kagawa, Mata, Januzaj, Welbeck, Valencia, Young, Zaha, the other young lad who played the last game... who can all play on the wing or midfield, and then Chico, Rooney, RVP, Welbeck, Wilson up front...

Its a pretty strong squad.

Memorable dates in Manchester City's Illustrious History:

1937: Division 1 Title Winners for the first time, under Wilf Wild
1956: FA Cup Winners under Les McDowall
1968: Division 1 Title Winners under Joe Mercer
1969: FA Cup Winners under Joe Mercer
1983: Yaya Toure is born
1984: Yaya Toure's 1st Birthday
1985: Yaya Toure's 2nd Birthday
1986: Yaya Toure's 3rd Birthday
1987: Yaya Toure's 4th Birthday
1988: Yaya Toure's 5th Birthday
1989: Yaya Toure's 6th Birthday
1990: Yaya Toure's 7th Birthday
1991: Yaya Toure's 8th Birthday
1992: Yaya Toure's 9th Birthday
1993: Yaya Toure's 10th Birthday
1994: Yaya Toure's 11th Birthday
1995: Yaya Toure's 12th Birthday
1996: Yaya Toure's 13th Birthday
1997: Yaya Toure's 14th Birthday
1998: Yaya Toure's 15th Birthday
1999: Yaya Toure's 16th Birthday
2000: Yaya Toure's 17th Birthday
2001: Yaya Toure's 18th Birthday
2002: Yaya Toure's 19th Birthday
2003: Yaya Toure's 20th Birthday
2004: Yaya Toure's 21st Birthday
2005: Yaya Toure's 22nd Birthday
2006: Yaya Toure's 23rd Birthday
2007: Yaya Toure's 24th Birthday
2008: Yaya Toure's 25th Birthday
2009: Yaya Toure's 26th Birthday
2010: Yaya Toure's 27th Birthday
2011: Yaya Toure's 28th Birthday; FA Cup Winners under Roberto Mancini
2012: Yaya Toure's 29th Birthday; Premier League Champions under Roberto Mancini
2013: Yaya Toure's 30th Birthday
2014: Yaya Toure's 31st Birthday; Premier League Champions under Manuel pellegrini

Seems like the bitter rags are going to keep the enjoyment of last season going all year round for us.

So far Kroos and Shaw have been named and decided not to be shamed.

Will Woodward last the summer? If he can't deliver anything by the time Butt Head arrives he's going to get a battering. from him.

Tick tock

Iain has a point Danbert, Big baby Yaya.
Just cause he wants to do a Giggsie and join the coaching staff.
GET RID
If he is not 100% he needs to be gone.

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Originally Posted by Danbert Nocurry

Will Woodward last the summer?

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Edward Woodward? I thought he was burned to death in the Wicker man. :confused: