Funny you should mention that...! Great minds think alike!Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheeze
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Funny you should mention that...! Great minds think alike!Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheeze
Traditionally known as the 14 peaks. Great and scary memories!Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheeze
Well it's that time again. Special occasion this year, being the 50th anniversary, and has deservedly got a large field with some top quality names. And a very promising weather forecast to go with it...
It is a staggered start, with people grouped into half hour blocks based on predicted time, slowest going first. Then in your block it's two go off every 30secs.
I've gone for the 10am start, which is for 5hrs-6hr30, which is exactly the correct block for me (i'm hoping to be somewhere around 5:30-5:45).... but it's rather alarming the quality of the other runners who are also in this block... Lloyd Taggart, Jack Agnew, Mel Price, to name just a few... perhaps they underestimated their times... could find myself quite lonely until i start to catch the earlier runners.
Not seen any forum names on the start list, but plenty of familiar names otherwise.
Have a good one Travs. I'd rather be there than dashing/slogging over Aldermans but I decided to go for the full set in the champs this year.
I'm sure I've seen Lloyd and maybe a couple of others on the entry lists for both. Hopefully he'll take the sensible option and go to North Wales, which will also bump me up the field another place. :)
I am not fit enough for the full Long this year, but will be doing the Short :D
seeing as it's going to be roasting hot weather (which I hate) I probably would've dropped down to the Short anyway as wouldn't've fancied my chances wrt heat-exhaustion on the Long!
Well that was quite an experience... i'm struggling to think of an individual race that i found harder... perhaps the first time i did Buttermere, and Wasdale 2016 in awful weather, but given my increased fitness level now compared to those days, it's clear that yesterday puts up a good argument for being my hardest race ever.
It was pretty clear by the time i got to Aber Falls that racing hard was completely out of the question... the first steep section up onto Yr Arag left me with no energy, and i took things very steadily all the way round the Carneddau and down to the A5.
Whilst not necessarily feeling any better, i started to reel people back in along the road and all the way up to Glyder Fawr, passing people i hadn't seen since that first climb a few hours previously.
On reaching Glyder Fawr i realised that a competent descent down to Pen Y Pass and avoiding blowing up completely on the way up Snowdon, a pb and under 6hrs was still in reach. There were people in some awful states on the Pyg Track... one guy throwing up very violently and unable to speak, many people sitting or trying to lie down in the shade of rocks... one lady crying...
I suppose i got off lightly, with only one major bout of cramp at Bwlch Y Moch which required a couple of minutes sat down. Then threw everything at it and despite deteriorating rapidly, sneaked under 6hrs with a 5:58 and a new pb.
Could do no more on a day like yesterday. A lot better runners than me had a worse time of it or didn't manage to finish. A look at the results and i was in about 60th at the A5 but finished 34th, so the cautious start obviously worked. And encouraging that i think there's a lot of time to come off that on a cooler day.
Goes without saying that it was incredibly hot throughout, but dropping into the Ogwen and Pen Y Pass valleys, it was like descending into a sauna.
I hope the short went ok for you Daz...?
Pete
Well done - looking at the numbers, that is a tough event at the best of times, but on such a hot day ....Quote:
Originally Posted by Travs
it was too bloody hot for me
I took it very steadily right from the off, but the last third of the climb up the Miners was a freaking nightmare - I had to keep stopping every few minutes or risk passing out
once I got up to the bwlch there was a bit of breeze and I perked up a bit (relatively speaking!) and finished/got down OK
I notice from the results that there were a lot of DNF's on the Long
and although none on the Short, in 2019 there were only 5 out of 26 that finished in over 3 hours,
whereas this year there were only 8 of 24 that finished UNDER 3 hours (!!)
(I was over 4 hours btw)
it's still one of my fave races though ;)
oh and how could I forget to mention highlight of the day being Joss Naylor addressing the starters at Ogwen and leading us up to the start area :cool:
Well done Daz... i quite fancy a shot at the short race next year... only the one descent, which i know relatively well, and two massive climbs, should suit a "climber" like me. And the chance to attack both climbs without the potential of cramp at every step.
Will see... still got unfinished business on the long as well...
Saturday was the hardest days racing I've ever done.
I've never shed so much fluid ever - arms were crunchy from salt and started cramping on the descent to PyP. By the start of the Pyg track I was cramping in muscles I didn't know I had.
Somehow felt a bit better on the final pull to the finger post, made decent push up Ugain and then fell on the descent, both legs went into spasm and I had 2 Joe Publics stretching my calves out like an extra-time FA Cup final from the 80s for a couple of minutes, me bleeding in a crumpled mess on the floor, before finishing off up Snowdon. Time was a bit rubbish, but knew it was a day of survival pretty much from Ogwen road.
Our lift was meeting us at PyP, so we passed a lot of the field on our way down and there were some real casualties, and I almost passed out myself at PyP. I was half a stone lighter when I got in, despite drinking 2 litres in the car home. Still not right now. A genuinely brilliantly horrific race!
Brilliant account Richard...!
I was still having cramps in my fingers/hands yesterday.
The descent down Snowdon afterwards was also very tough. I'd drank a litre of water at PyP, and had another litre with me for the climb, but knew i needed to ration for the walk off.
The marshals had a limited supply of water at the finish, but really only for people who were completely out, so i was honest and told them i'd make my way down with the 300ml or so that i had left.... that was gone before Clogwyn, and it was a soul-destroying walk down from there (i usually jog down but could not manage more than a walk on saturday).
Straight in the shop in Llanberis, necked a litre of water and a can of cherry coke which made me feel incredibly queasy.
I'm just thankful i took a long-sleeved layer in my kit, so i could at least escape a bit of sun exposure on the walk down.
Decided to play to my strengths this year and go for the short race... with two big climbs and just the one descent, surely i could pick up a good result here....?
Made a rapid start (as planned) and found myself in 4th place behind young superstar Harry Bolton of Keswick, and a Dark Peak and Eryri vest.... managed to hang onto their tails, but completely lost touch with them on the Gribyn ridge... i found myself having to climb down a couple of times after ending up on exposed/steep rock, and by the time i'd came out on the Glyder plateau, my 2min+ cushion on those behind had evaporated to about 30secs.
Despite the clear weather i again made a meal of the long descent to Pen Y Pass... it really is quite confusing at times, even in good visibility.... on reaching PyP i was back to 6th and didn't even stop for water, as could see what i thought was 4th/5th heading up the first bit of the Pyg Track... so charged straight across the road and gave chase.
As expected i reeled them in within about 10mins and quickly pulled away.... but then to my shock i spotted another guy who must've sneaked past... he was actually in 4th and not me... this fella was moving well and we were closing in on the final long zig-zags up to the Finger Stone before i got on his shoulder... on the steep zigzags i had a slight edge, and on the out-and-back to Carnedd Ugain i could see i had a 60-90secs cushion to see me up Snowdon.... however on the 5min final climb up Snowdon i could see he was still running everything so i couldn't let off at all.
Finally dibbed at Snowdon summit in 2hrs07 for 4th place and 1st v40.
That guy really made me work for it and thanks to him for some great racing. We really made each other suffer and that's what its all about, i reckon we pushed each other's time on by at least a couple of minutes.
Had a look back through the old results and there's only been one year since 2007 where my time wouldn't have been in the top 4 or 5, so was a worthy result. However i appreciate that conditions were good, and really i think to go from a "decent" time to an "impressive" one, i really need to look to push that under 2hrs...
Whether i can do that is another matter... would need favourable conditions again, and to actually get the Pen Y Pass descent nailed, and still pick up a couple more minutes.
Will see what i can do next year!
Pete
Well done Pete.Quote:
Originally Posted by Travs
With respect to the grade 1 scramble section, I thought it was meant to be "way marked"? Not very effectively by the sound of it.
It was not waymarked, and they did inform us of that at the start.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike T
My issue is, the very first year i did it, i was too far left and had some very unnerving exposure to my left at one point (made a bit worse by the swirling mist accompanying it)..... so i've always tend to hang a bit too far right since, and end up on steeper ground which takes a couple of attempts to find a comfortable route up (i'm pretty sure that yesterday i had to reverse out at exactly the same place i encountered last year as well!))
From the event website:Quote:
Originally Posted by Travs
"Whilst the race organisers take all reasonable measures to ensure your safety, you must only enter this race with a full knowledge and understanding of the risks involved. All courses ascend the Gribin Ridge in the Ogwen Valley. Ascending this part of the route requires a head for heights and use of hands for support, it includes a grade 1 (the easiest grade) scramble and is waymarked."
Being in a hurry on a grade 1 scramble - not my idea of fun. Again - well done!
Then logically you don`t enter simple really, plus it makes for a better event for those that have the ability and skillsQuote:
Originally Posted by Mike T
I have only been up the Gribin ridge once, and that was walking, but in wet, claggy weather. I didn't find it difficult to find a route, but I'm fairly sure that my route was far from optimal.
Travs, you have spent rather more time on Snowdonia's mountains than I have, so I find it reassuring to read that you also find the descent from Glyder Fawr to Pen y Pass confusing (as I did on the Half Peris), even in good visibility. The red dots painted on rocks are very little use, and the buildings at Pen y Pass are not visible for most of the descent; and in any case, the real problem is finding some decently runnable terrain rather than ending up looking down a crag or in front of a yucky bog.
The solution for me - don't enter - is so simple even I could see it. The potential for others to come unstuck on such terrain, particularly when in a hurry, does concern me.Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnK
The optimum route seems to be a closely guarded secret.
The first section it is important to not be in too much of a hurry to take a beeline towards the distant Pen Y Pass, and there is a bit of a path here...
My strategy is to continue to maintain the gentle descent, and not get pulled too far east and into the basin containing the Llyn. This does pick up a number of trods but it is undulating and still confusing. But it (eventually) gets you down to the pass.
I was being chased down by Jackie Lee of Eryri who is both local and a good descender. She actually shouted to me that i was going "too far" and she disappeared in more of a beeline in the direction of the Llyn... perhaps i should have taken the opportunity to follow her and learn the local's best route.... but i'm pretty sure it would have been steep, and i'm not sure i'd have been able to keep with her down it, so stuck to my guns.
She got down in 20mins and was moaning after the race that it had been a "slow" descent for her.... i took 24mins. Really i need to getting that to around 20mins.
The optimum route seems to be a closely guarded secret.Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonykay
The first section it is important to not be in too much of a hurry to take a beeline towards the distant Pen Y Pass, and there is a bit of a path here...
My strategy is to continue to maintain the gentle descent, and not get pulled too far east and into the basin containing the Llyn. This does pick up a number of trods but it is undulating and still confusing. But it (eventually) gets you down to the pass.
I was being chased down by Jackie Lee of Eryri who is both local and a good descender. She actually shouted to me that i was going "too far" and she disappeared in more of a beeline in the direction of the Llyn... perhaps i should have taken the opportunity to follow her and learn the local's best route.... but i'm pretty sure it would have been steep, and i'm not sure i'd have been able to keep with her down it, so stuck to my guns.
She got down in 20mins and was moaning after the race that it had been a "slow" descent for her.... i took 24mins. Really i need to getting that to around 20mins.
I noticed that we converged on Pen Y Pass from different directions... my final approach was more of a traverse from the NW with steep ground below and to my right. Whereas Jackie approached the pass buildings a lot more perpendicular to the road, almost from in the direction of the Llyn.
I found a pretty good line down last time I did this (2019), by luck rather than anything else. I aimed for the westerly point of the llyn and ended up in a shallow, mostly grassy gully. This brought me down to the remains of a stone structure which I assume is a sheepfold. The walls are shown on the OS map but it isn't noted as anything (looks a bit like a tadpole shape!). From memory there was a trod to Pen y Pass from here.
I've checked my split and it was 20mins which seems reasonable compared to others on the day and considering descending isn't my strong point.
With reluctance I am having to withdraw from this years race. My groin strain from Ras Y Gader has not settled down and I think it would be irresponsible to risk it on such a serious encounter. It would probably be OK on the uphill's but downhill would be a different matter.
I'm doubly disappointed due to missing out on the new venue which sounds like it will make it a great weekend but the decision is made.
A bit of rest and hopefully I'll be ready for The Wincle Trout Run on the 10th June and Pen y Fan on 9th July
Shame Llani, it is one of the best races on the calendar, and along with Buttermere and Wasdale, the long race is just about as hard as it gets.
I was all set for another go at the short course this year.... however the changes in the management/structure of the event have put me off sadly (along with my comments in the fell racing ethics thread, i seem to be getting increasingly cynical in my old age!)
I have always sorted my own accommodation, registered the night before, whether that be in Llanberis or Capel Curig, then turned up at the start on saturday morning (whether at the coast or at Ogwen) of my own accord.
This is now not an option and it is mandatory to get yourself to Llanberis and then be coached in to the start. Along with the fact that the entry fee is now £33 (which is about the same as i paid for the Y3P so i'm not against paying for it, but it is also £33 for the short course, which i think is shocking!)
It all seems to me designed to turn it into an event rather than a race. I just want to turn up at the start and give it my all, not become involved in camping, coach travel, etc.
So sadly this year decided it was not for me.
I thought the £33 entry fee was good value considering it included 2 nights camping at Capel Curig, coach transport to the start and then transport back from Pen y Pass.
But can I see that for someone like you Travs who just wants to turn up and go then it can all seem a bit of a faff.
To be fair to the organisers, I do not think they are trying to turn it into a trail type event but with limited manpower and funds are just trying to keep the logistics as manageable as possible.
Hopefully I can do it next year and have a spare tent you can borrow Travs. I'll even pitch it for you ;)
Organising a point to point event is always tricky. Back in the day, just turning up and racing it was great fun but required quite a bit of car shuttling and twisting of arms for driving help etc. I'll be interested to hear what people think after this years event.
Anyway, for anyone who wants to do an event just as tough (if not tougher) in the same terrain with no transport issues there is always the fearsome Peris Horseshoe;)
I personally think the W1000 is marginally harder than Peris, and is up there with Buttermere and Wasdale as the hardest race on the calendar. The sheer scale of the climbs sets it apart for me... although overall the terrain is probably more difficult on Peris.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheeze
Peris is my favourite race of all.
It's easy to go too hard on the early part of the 1000m leaving yourself with nothing in the tank for the assault of Yr Wyddfa. In that respect, Peris is easier to judge......its 'kin ard from the get go!😳
I did the W1000 short course last year and it felt like a mere "sprint" over the Glyders and up Snowdon!
I made a slight hash of the descent to Pen-Y-Pass and absolutely bowled across the road and shot up the first part of the Pyg Track like i was doing a flat race, trying to pull a couple of positions back... when i reach that point on the full course i'm usually considering my foot placement very carefully in order to fend off cramp.
1st at the short race yesterday (well, i was beaten by the leading team from the pairs race, but took the first individual prize).
There were close to 50 on the entry list... however i don't think there were more than 40 on the start line, and number of those were in the pairs race as well. As i like to do, i went off pretty hard to make the most of my ascending.... soon found myself about 30 seconds clear, and it was apparent that there was probably only one guy who was going to give me trouble.... in fact at the first summit, Glyder Fawr, 39mins in, apart from myself, the guy in 2nd and the leading pair, we were already 6-7 minutes clear of the next runner.
Seeing how it was panning out behind me, i changed tactics slightly.... rather than hammering myself up this climb, i started thinking about racing for the win, and just kept ticking over enough to hold my lead, without blowing up myself.... had i been chasing the leader, i'd have probably gone full-pelt, and on a 2hr+ race run the risk of blowing up.
Managed (more by luck than judgement) to get a perfect line up the grade 1 Gribyn scramble, and by the time i reached Glyder Fawr i still had a 30 second lead.
I immediately gave away half that lead as, despite the clear weather, i got my compass out.... i wanted to take the exact line i'd reccied on friday, as i couldn't afford any mistakes down to Pen Y Pass.... this turned out to be a good decision.... i got it bang on, getting to Pen Y Pass in 19 and a half minutes.... its usually said that under 20 minutes is speedy.... i know that the real fast guys can do it in 17, some even 15.... but yesterday the only people to do the descent faster were the guy who came 2nd, and the winner of the long race.
Despite my successful descent, i still dropped to 2nd with 50 seconds to make up. I pulled this back immediately... i'm not sure if the other guy (a local) had stopped to fuel/water, or gone astray (surely impossible on the huge Pyg Track), but next thing i knew he was behind me.
I must have been moving well as i was slicing through the front of the long course field, eventually passing the leader.... i thought i must have this one wrapped up, but on a flatter section got the shock of my life, as the 2nd guy re-appeared on my shoulder. Again had to start thinking about tactics, so i tried not to panic, had a gel and a drink, and settled myself for the final half-hour "sprint finish" (although if he was moving so well after 90minutes of effort, i did think the writing was on the wall)
As we neared the zigzags up the steep pull to the finger-stone, i started to wind the effort up a bit, running everything i could (this was made all the more difficult by the path being absolutely packed with tourists and walkers, and as we were the first through, they weren't expecting runners, so it was even more difficult than usual). Up to the finger-stone, right turn for Carnedd Ugain and try to keep the effort going.
It worked as i had a 50 second lead at Ugain, with only 7 or 8 minutes across to Snowdon.... however i was now cooked, on the couple of minutes descent back to the finger-stone i couldn't lift my legs and fell about 3 times, to the extent that the marshal there enquired if i was ok.... the guy behind me was clearly still full of running on the flats and downs, and was again back to only 10 seconds behind me.
I knew it was only 5 minutes to the finish but my legs weren't co-operating... tried again to run what bits i could.... fortunately the other guy was also about done on the ups, and when i got within 50 yards of the finish and turned round, i could finally relax as i was out of reach.... finally taking 1st by 30 seconds.
2hrs03..... a pb by 4 minutes. I was 90seconds quicker than last time up the first climb to Glyder Fawr.... about 5 minutes quicker down to Pen Y Pass.... i was actually 2 minutes slower on the last hour up to Snowdon... although it was pretty warm, and i was certainly starting to struggle with the race being a bit over-distance for my current training.
Its clearly not the most stellar field if i'm featuring at the front, let alone winning.... but it still meant a lot to me.... i remember being a hill-walker in my 20's on Snowdon and seeing this mad race finishing on the summit, people finishing in some right states, covered in blood etc.... it took me well over a decade after that to get into fellrunning, but that moment on Snowdon in the early 2000's started to sow the seeds for it.
The highlight was receiving a fantastic framed painting of Snowdon/Lliwedd by a local artist, at the presentation (along with other bits and bobs including a slate coaster, voucher for Joe Brown Sports, and some booze). I must say the quality of prizes was superb.... the large slate plaques for the v70 winners looked brilliant.
Well done Travs. Excellent effort :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by Travs
Thank you Travs for allowing me to vicariously enjoy your efforts....I could visualise just what you were doing. Top running!
Well done Pete and a great write up.
It's a rare and fulfilling thing for runners of our level when a course just plays right into your wheelhouse. This is mainly why I mourn the loss of the Litton birks loop.