New safety rules

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Originally Posted by Lefty

Exactly Richard the people who post here are in a tiny minority compared to the total membership and even here there are opposing views expressed. Over the past weeks and days I've spoken to many many fell race organisers some who have been organising fell races for donkeys years and that includes long A s etc. Whilst some have qualms about certain aspects of the rules, as have you, most feel that they can work with them, are happy to and have already registered their races and feel they will be able administer the rules when next their event comes around. It has been suggested somewhere on this thread that many race organisers will not have studied the full implications of accepting the new rules and don't know what they are getting into but this is certainly not the case in the people who I have spoken to. Most RO are pretty savvy and know what they are doing, some have taken their own legal advice. How many races are there in the calendar and how many ( regrettably ) are lost for the time being, so yes on that evidence the dissenting voices here on the forum are in a definite minority.

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I hope you are right Lefty, but my legal advise is a clear cause for concern and yes I am one of those that have permitted so far, but I have permitted without full sight of what I am signing up to and what that eventually is will perhaps sway some ROs.

Wynn

really sorry to hear your decision. I hope things change to the point where you feel able to hold your races again in the future but in the meantime thank you for all the AWs and TWAs, both great races and the kind fell running is all about to me and a lot of others I think.

To those who have suggested that losing a few races doesn't matter - losing this one matters to me.

Its kind of ironic that by making flagged parts of fell race routes now 'hazard and danger' free it will presumably force some races to leave stipulated paths and take to runners trods, contrary to the exact reason the route was flagged to the main path in the first place. A great case in point is the 3 peaks fell race and the descent line from Whernside - there is a superb line off of Whernside, mainly on spongey grass, that runners in recent years have been specifically not allowed to take (due to it making another path which the national park don't want walkers to then use and widen) with runners instead being forced to go down the main rocky, steppy and drainage ditchy main drag. That descent is perilous whilst the runners trod is as good a descent as you could wish for :)

This book might help the debate:
Outdoor Activities, Negligence, and the Law - Julian Fulbrook

I'm completely ignorant on matters of liability and negligence etc as my question will undoubtedly demonstrate...
Why can't we all, as race participants, sign a disclaimer form absolving RO's of any culpability and instead accept complete personal reponsibility for what is a totally imprudent activity? - I mean running up and down mountains in a pair of skimpy shorts is pretty daft.
Is it because in a blame and claim culture such a declaration isn't worth the paper it's written on to a lawyer who is seeking to find a 'negligent' RO responsible?
With that basic understanding I'll be better placed to understand the differing opinions. :)
Cheers

As a teammate of Brian Belfield and the Staffs Moorlands' Fell Team Manager,it has been difficult not to join this debate,and I shall not comment directly on matters relating to his death.However it is with great sadness and frustration that I read of the impending demise of 2 of my favourite races,The AW and The C&F Relay.Please find a way of keeping them.Brian loved the Lakeland races especially & would be horrified if The AW was no more.He just enjoyed immensely running in the hills and doing the traditional races.

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Originally Posted by Mark G

Wynn

really sorry to hear your decision. I hope things change to the point where you feel able to hold your races again in the future but in the meantime thank you for all the AWs and TWAs, both great races and the kind fell running is all about to me and a lot of others I think.

To those who have suggested that losing a few races doesn't matter - losing this one matters to me.

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and me! One of the first races I always pencil in every year. It will be strange not doing it in 2014 and will leave a big hole in April. God forbid I might have to do that Yorkshire Trail race instead http://i592.photobucket.com/albums/t...ebit/shock.gif

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Originally Posted by crowhill

I'm completely ignorant on matters of liability and negligence etc as my question will undoubtedly demonstrate...
Why can't we all, as race participants, sign a disclaimer form absolving RO's of any culpability and instead accept complete personal reponsibility for what is a totally imprudent activity? - I mean running up and down mountains in a pair of skimpy shorts is pretty daft.
Is it because in a blame and claim culture such a declaration isn't worth the paper it's written on to a lawyer who is seeking to find a 'negligent' RO responsible?
With that basic understanding I'll be better placed to understand the differing opinions. :)

Cheers

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I'm no legal eagle; but surely, your signed agreement between you and the RO only holds good whilst you are alive and fully compus mentis. Once you are dead or reduced to a "cabbage", the RO is then dealing with your dependents, who do not have any disclaimer with the RO and are looking to compensate for your (their) loss of earnings, to the max.

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Originally Posted by wheezing donkey

I'm no legal eagle; but surely, your signed agreement between you and the RO only holds good whilst you are alive and fully compus mentis. Once you are dead or reduced to a "cabbage", the RO is then dealing with your dependants, who do not have any disclaimer with the RO and are looking to compensate for your (their) loss of earnings, to the max.

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There's the additional point as well that you can only sign a disclaimer for what you have been told about - lets say there's a river crossing that you were not informed about and you slip and are injured, the disclaimer may be irrelvant unless the RO had made clear that a river crossing would have to be negotiated.

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Originally Posted by crowhill

I'm completely ignorant on matters of liability and negligence etc as my question will undoubtedly demonstrate...
Why can't we all, as race participants, sign a disclaimer form absolving RO's of any culpability and instead accept complete personal reponsibility for what is a totally imprudent activity? - I mean running up and down mountains in a pair of skimpy shorts is pretty daft.
Is it because in a blame and claim culture such a declaration isn't worth the paper it's written on to a lawyer who is seeking to find a 'negligent' RO responsible?
With that basic understanding I'll be better placed to understand the differing opinions. :)
Cheers

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Organisers - of anything - owe participants a duty of care; if they fail in that duty, and someone suffers as a consequence, then the organiser is liable. This is a very basic principle, and cannot be signed away.