New safety rules

[QUOTE=Wheeze;562355]

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Originally Posted by alwaysinjured

SHRA and WFRA have rightly chosen to recognise the problems in that linkage and plough their own furrow.

Al, WFRA reformed because of the imposition of WA into our sport after the dissolution of BAF. Our 'affiliation' to FRA was effectively removed without our say. We reformed the organisation in order to retain our links to FRA not some new quango attached to the Athletics body politic.

But then FRA affiliated to UKA anyway! And then I hear what people are saying about the UKA attitude at this sad event. I hear the sounds of roosting birds!

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I gather from sources there is now a bit of a punchup going on over rules and affiliations in WFRA.

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Originally Posted by MargC

Incidently the WFRA is willing to provide insurance cover for races organised by their members anywhere in the UK provided their Safety Requirements (current 2014 version can be viewed on http://www.wfra.me.uk/index.htm ) are followed. These are very similar to the current FRA draft version but with some changes.

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So I gather SHRA can insure races anywhere in the UK - who I also gather have decided to hold off major rule changes for the present

Wheeze - please clear your inbox!

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Originally Posted by crowhill

I can't give you a positive example of finding an incapacitated runner, but I can still see the value in the marshalling system. On a race I use to organise we had a runner go missing. The standard 'system' we had in place worked well - the countback revealed there to be one runner missing at the finish and we knew his number and name - when the marshals returned to race HQ we were able to ascertain they hadn't got to checkpoint 1. I then retraced the route of the race from the start to checkpoint 1 and realised it would be better to concentrate my efforts on contacting the runner (through his club) than call out Calder Valley Search and Rescue, because there was virtually no way he could have gone missing between the start and checkpoint 1 and the contact mobile he'd left at registration was constantly switched off. I managed to speak to one of his club colleagues, get his home number and call him. He'd been called away in an emergency after registering, but prior to starting the race and had left in a hurry without informing anyone.

Now if he'd broken a leg, I'm fairly confident I (with the help of mountain rescue) could have found him - but all this would have depended on the system of counting working properly. In a bigger field and in worse conditions it would be all too easy for this system that worked well then to fail. That said, without GPS tracking of all competitors, its probably the best system for working out where a runner might have gone astray.

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A counting system at the start would have sussed him out, i suggested one previously maybe it was noticed maybe it wasn't...

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Originally Posted by mr brightside

I'd come up with the idea of getting the field to 'count off' at the start. Starting with 1 everyone shouts out their number in turn until you finish at the last registered runner. If the count stops you note a DNS and radio the checkpoints with a list of DNSs. This sytem wouldn't be possible without race numbers being consecutive from 1, and you'd need to quarantine the start area to stop Jonny-come-latelys sneaking in after having been logged as DNS.

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[QUOTE=alwaysinjured;562357]

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Originally Posted by Wheeze

I gather from sources there is now a bit of a punchup going on over rules and affiliations in WFRA.

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Genuinely gobs smacked... But now doubt the newly formed Association of Welsh Fell Runners will plough their own furrow...

Brightside at the ben race you drop a tag in at the start... they search through and see who started..

Yet they then called me up at 8 pm as they were looking for me, A DNS'er... I had registered for the freebies yet did't race, so knowing the system just didn't put my tag in and went for a run in the mamores...

They never checked their tag system. Admittedly I should have also let them know anyway, but they also had ignored their own system they have in place.

But in a race in Germany last week we did similar to what you say.. basically a register.. and we all just called out yes.. then we set off and they knew how many had started.

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Originally Posted by IainR

Brightside at the ben race you drop a tag in at the start... they search through and see who started..

Yet they then called me up at 8 pm as they were looking for me, A DNS'er... I had registered for the freebies yet did't race, so knowing the system just didn't put my tag in and went for a run in the mamores...

They never checked their tag system. Admittedly I should have also let them know anyway, but they also had ignored their own system they have in place.

But in a race in Germany last week we did similar to what you say.. basically a register.. and we all just called out yes.. then we set off and they knew how many had started.

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A physical check that all retiring and completing runners hand in their numbers would easily have found you -

Incidentally I understand SHRA races are sometimes using coded/numbered wristbands which have a major advantage, the competitor can read them without undoing weather gear, and the right type have to be cut off, so no possibility of losing them. I don't know if anyone ever tried it, but if that number were also barcoded, a bar code reader (or mobile phone) can read them automatically, as second check to make sure hear/say/read do not give failures (as they invariably do some times). People are fallible and always will be.


Still waiting for any evidence that "call out search on the basis of tracking either before or even after ANY event" has made a material difference to any runner in a life threatening situation. Is there any evidence at all that this rule is other than a pipedream to bludgeon an RO with?

I quote the coroners report AGAIN which states it in "factors that may help to prevent other deaths", as quoted from the FRA rules, as used by UKA to summarily beat an RO round the head with, so ends in a coroners report - is there ANY evidence it can or has saved a life?

Are FRA really demanding an RO achieve something that nobody has ever managed to do successfully before in the history of fell running? Examples please! (other than tracking used to cover up flaws in a starting system that is)

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Originally Posted by IainR

But in a race in Germany last week we did similar to what you say.. basically a register.. and we all just called out yes.. then we set off and they knew how many had started.

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Did the same at one of the Welsh races in the summer. Called your name and you passed through a gate. Easy and everyone checked out and numbers passed on to marshal's.
Gladstone 9, I think the race was.
A fine race too with route choice in parts and very nice folks organising and running.

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Originally Posted by IainR

Yet they then called me up at 8 pm as they were looking for me, A DNS'er... I had registered for the freebies yet did't race, so knowing the system just didn't put my tag in and went for a run in the mamores...

They never checked their tag system. Admittedly I should have also let them know anyway, but they also had ignored their own system they have in place.

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Had to laugh at that. After all the crap you've been giving me. I'd got the impression I was the renegade.

[QUOTE=alwaysinjured;562357]

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Originally Posted by Wheeze

I gather from sources there is now a bit of a punchup going on over rules and affiliations in WFRA.

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Erm, I'm on the committee. Not aware of any pugilistic malfeasance currently ongoing!

In line with the other affiliated organisations, we were asked for our views on the proposed amendments well before the public consultation. We had a good round table discussion, fed back to FRA and then got on with the job of formulating our rules which have always been in parallel with FRA rules and regs. The general consensus is that we would have to have very sound reasons for departing from anything adopted by FRA. So, whilst there may be some minor local amendments, the general thrust will be the same.

Inbox cleared (a bit!)

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if that number were also barcoded, a bar code reader (or mobile phone) can read them automatically,

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happens at every park run, everywhere, every weekend.....
but you do have to register in advance, so no turn up on the day......
(as far as I understand it: never actually been on one of the things!)

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Originally Posted by Dave_Mole

happens at every park run, everywhere, every weekend.....
but you do have to register in advance, so no turn up on the day......
(as far as I understand it: never actually been on one of the things!)

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Yes Dave, you do register on their site, but this is done to begin running their events. After that, you turn up when and where you want, start and are only checked for your time at the finish. It works great in a park 5k but not practical in fell races.
Try one though, honestly inspiring for encouraging running.