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I would be surprised if any of the mature economies were not shrinking as part of the world economy.
A developed western economy has less scope for growth unlike the developing world, which is starting to make and buy stuff gives them the ability to achieve growth rates that would be impossible in a developed economy. The economies of the mature regions are still hugh, in absolute terms, and growing.
In the grand scheme of things Witton, everything the tories have done since calling the referendum has been done for the benefit or to help the frankly mad brexiteer corner of their party and their now aging and fixedly anti immigrant supporting voters. There’s been zero recognition of the remainers point of view (until very very very recently and certainly too little too late) and she has bet the house on the ‘no deal’ threat leading to the EU caving in and giving the U.K. a cake and eat it deal - no downsides to trade, no contributions to EU and no open borders. As if the EU would ever give that???
Common sense would’ve dictated that given the closeness of the referendum a softer Brexit was where the common ground could be found and, had that been pursued, there’d have been far more acceptance and less acrimony of Brexit. Most remainers would’ve gone along with it even though it was still a really really stupid thing to do. But no, it had to be done the with true Tory nastiness the Davis, Boris, Rees Mogg, Gove and Farage way.....
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I couldn't disagree with you more.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stolly
So I'd love someone to identify what recognition there has been of the vote to Leave? 2016 that bloody referendum took place.
Nearly 3 years on we haven't left. In the Commons today Mrs May has ultimately capitulated. She won't get her deal through because those that may have supported it now have no need to, she will allow a vote to block No Deal and she will allow a vote on an extension of Article 50.
The deal she is trying to get through keeps us so closely aligned to the Single Market we may as well be in. It keeps us in the EU without voting rights for up to 4 years and then we must go in to the backstop if we haven't agreed terms by then, so of course the terms we will be agreeing will be agreeable to the EU.
She is a dead duck being manipulated by her 18:5 Remain cabinet and her remain civil service and advisors, bullied by a Remain Commons.
And what consideration do you think Leave voters would have had with a 52% result in favour of Remain? Could you imagine Soubry advocating we leave the Customs Union and move to the Norway position of EEA in order to respect the result.
Not a cat in hells chance. It would have been business as usual for another 30 years.
You really think she is doing all that out of choice? If the N.I issue did not exist we would be heading for a Canada type deal which is a fairly hard Brexit.
She has been dragged kicking and screeming to where she is now.
Hmmm..... so it turns out Brexit wasn’t the doddle all the pro-leave politicians promised it would be 🤔
A Canada style deal would be the most advanced form of FTA that has been lodged with the WTO.Quote:
Originally Posted by DrPatrickBarry
If you think that is a hard Brexit I don't know what to say to you Pat. All this hard, soft is bollocks anyway.
It makes you wonder how the rest of the world manages without EU type arrangements.
But somehow, they seem to manage quite well.
Growth in the Eurozone since it was established as been half that of the USA and less than most non EU G20 countries and EU Growth on the whole only look a tad better because of those EU nations outside of the Euro that have done a tad better.
Economically it's a modern day "what not to do" and yet the ideologues still persist and actually think the answer is more EU.
Stolly talks of nutjobs but the nutjobs are those that want to shackle themselves to something that doesn't work.
What do you mean “the EU doesn’t work”? It’s got 27 nations working to shared values, it’s doing great things to minimise or avoid future conflict between those nations, it has full freedom of movement between nations, a relatively common currency and full open borders for trade on a common basis. It is investing in the poorer nations to ultimately all be able to share fully in its success. It applies strong regulation that everyone has to abide by and has very good (relative to most anywhere else) environmental values. As a large world trading block it is able to negotiate and agree trade agreements worldwide and in return seek higher regulatory and environmental standards from its trading partners. It really means something to me to be considered European and having my European status torn away by inward looking, little englanders is really galling. It’s been said before but Brexit has made me embarrassed and ashamed of how low we have stooped as a country.
Apart from that what have the Romans ever done for us 😊
True, but it is still a long way from the common market, which will hit particular sectors hard namely Farming and Services.Quote:
Originally Posted by Witton Park
https://infacts.org/exactly-canada-style-deal/
Irrelevant anyway seeing as the UK will be staying in the customs union.
I have to say I doubted him but Leo Varadkar has played a blinder here.
I heard we were using The Master's Lounge...Quote:
Originally Posted by shaunaneto
We didn't vote to establish common ground, we voted to remain or leave; the British people were asked to speak and speak they did.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stolly