drug taking in sport

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Originally Posted by christopher leigh

Ag Marion Jones was subjected to lots of tests as well!

Do you honestly believe that gabrisallasse and other Africans, can run a minute faster than the great Said Aouita over 10km, without chemical assistance.

There was no Epo when he was competing.Aouita was faster in terms of basic speed(46.9 for 400m), was as light and possessed great stamina.Additionally he was almost unbeatable.

If you don't believe what I'm saying(in regard to drugs), re-watch the 1500m final at the 2000 olympics.Before the games it was announced, that a test had been developed for EPO.This test could detect EPO use upto 5 days( approx) before, but beyond permitted levels(EPO occurs naturally in the body).

Athletes using this drug had to be very careful now.So much so that a runner who'd been running 3.26-3.27, and making it look easy, struggled to run 3.32 and finished 2nd.Some other runners struggled as well.

Try to get the tape, watch and then tell me what you think.

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I'd say 5/6s slower in a tactical Olympic final is fair enough when compared to an all out paced race in perfect conditions in the GP circuit.

Auita was good because of his range, but was never exceptional at any one distance. I am 99% sure Geb is clean. He also has had consistency, and a long career, unlike most convicted drug cheats.

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Originally Posted by dominion

Nor do vitamins occur naturally in your body, but argubly they keep you heathly and able to train for longer without colds, flu, etc.

Paradoxically your body does produce anabolic steroids such as testosterone naturally.....

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Dominion some diseases are caused by a deficiency of vitamins.Asthma is not caused by a deficiency of salbutamol.

Clever switch of contexts though

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Originally Posted by Chris

Okay, I admit to becoming a bit interested in this. I thought the Asthma issue was a bit periferal.

I don't know about the 2000 Olympic 1,500. Was that El Gorouge's tactical abomination against Ngeny or am I thinking of something else?

I don't think you can conclude from super fast running that drugs are involved. For example, in the days before computer games I knew kids of 17 who cound run 800 metres in two minutes on no training. Coe ran 1.42 something 29 years ago. Considering the motivation of the Africans and the number of them why should we be sceptical that they are one or two minutes quicker than say Ron Clarke or David Bedford 30 or 40 years ago?

Tom Buckner, an 8 and a little bit minute steeplchaser once told me that he had stayed in Kenya and had run their national cross country championship and had finished about 50th behind kids in barefeet and cut off jeans.

Some people are just fast. I am willing to be convinced but your asthma soapbox seems to miss the point.

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Hello chris.David Bedford was tested for fitness at his peak.He recorded around 87ml per kg.Bedford was well know for his marathon workouts, sometimes as much as 200miles per week.Arthur Lydiard stated that this was the highest figure ever recorded, and was about the limit for oxygen uptake.

To run 1.15 faster than Bedford would require a huge increase in oxygen consumption, that cannot be achieved through training.It can only be achieved with drugs.

Now you might not like what I say about Paula Radcliffe, but you haven't presented an argument yet to refute My claims.

I was and remain a big David Bedford fan. He doesn't hold his club's record for 5,000m. Are you saying that if you run a minute or so faster you must be cheating?

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Originally Posted by A.G

I'd say 5/6s slower in a tactical Olympic final is fair enough when compared to an all out paced race in perfect conditions in the GP circuit.

Auita was good because of his range, but was never exceptional at any one distance. I am 99% sure Geb is clean. He also has had consistency, and a long career, unlike most convicted drug cheats.

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Hello AG.What you're saying doesn't make sense.Aouita not exceptional at any one distance?1000m indoor WR,1500mWR,2000M WR,3000M WR indoors and out,2 miles WR,5000m WR as well as about the 4th or 5th fastest time over 10000m.That was all before the advent of EPO.

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Originally Posted by christopher leigh

but you haven't presented an argument yet to refute My claims.

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As you said Paula wasn't cheating it didn't occur to me there was anargument to put.

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Originally Posted by Chris

I was and remain a big David Bedford fan. He doesn't hold his club's record for 5,000m. Are you saying that if you run a minute or so faster you must be cheating?

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Hello Chris.Its my opinion that they are!Chris I'm not saying these things to get people going.I'm saying them because the sport is corrupt, and I would like something done about it.

If I can convince people that I'm right, we might stop sanctioning athletes who are getting rich by cheating.

I'm not primarily concerned with the dangers of drugs in terms of health problems.I'm concerned with the contract issues.If an athlete agrees to take part, they have to abide by the rules.By competing with banned drugs, an athlete is in breach of contract, and is commiting fraud.

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Originally Posted by Chris

As you said Paula wasn't cheating it didn't occur to me there was anargument to put.

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I spoke to a friend of mine last night who's Asthmatic.I asked him how his Asthma was diagnosed.He said "the doctor told me to blow down a tube." The doctor looked at the tube and said "you've got Asthma." My friend also stated, when he takes it his energy increases.

Now My friend runs but he doesn't compete,and I didn't prompt him.Infact I didn't tell him why I wanted to know until he told me of his doctors visit.

Radcliffe is probably the only person who knows if she's cheating or not(i.e genuinly needs her Ventolin).I'll tell you straight, it ought to be put a stop to at the top level.

So he had a big engine, but without data on his economy, it doesn't prove he was at the human limit of running.

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Originally Posted by christopher leigh

Hello chris.David Bedford was tested for fitness at his peak.He recorded around 87ml per kg.Bedford was well know for his marathon workouts, sometimes as much as 200miles per week.Arthur Lydiard stated that this was the highest figure ever recorded, and was about the limit for oxygen uptake.

To run 1.15 faster than Bedford would require a huge increase in oxygen consumption, that cannot be achieved through training.It can only be achieved with drugs.

Now you might not like what I say about Paula Radcliffe, but you haven't presented an argument yet to refute My claims.

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Originally Posted by christopher leigh

Hello AG.What your saying doesn't make sense.Aouita not exceptional at any one distance?1000m indoor WR,1500mWR,2000M WR,3000M WR indoors and out,2 miles WR,5000m WR as well as about the 4th or 5th fastest time over 10000m.That was all before the advent of EPO.

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So exceptional at 1500/5000 (olympic distances), but, not exceptional at 10,000 which is the distance in question.

How about the point about El Gs 1500 times?