Fellsman

Thanks Colm. My left foot has become a pain. I'm keeping fingers crossed that it will return to being a foot by Saturday morning at 9am.

Ian, I feel privileged to have run in such company. I thought we were keeping up a better pace through the night than is the norm.
In the latest max test were you referring to blood lactate with heart rate? What about your maximum running speed? I bet it was faster than mine.
My stats were a fraction under 6mmol/l and 177bpm @ 14km/h max.

One thing's for sure, you certainly realise having done an event like this just how far you are capable of going if you just give it a bash. I was going to say 'push yourself' instead of going but, in all honesty although it was tough and I wouldn't necessarily have enjoyed it, I'm certain I could have still carried on at the end if I had too... so I clearly hadn't pushed myself quite hard enough to that point :rolleyes:. For me, especially from the half way point at Stonehouse, I partitioned everything into completing the next 5 mile or 10 mile stretch in my mind and that seemed to work great. I suspect that like our group most of us ran the last what 2 mile hop from Yarnbury to Threshfield and found it (once you'd kick started your legs) 'relatively' easy to do.

Whereas prior to running the fellsman and the high peak marathon I'd have considered a Bob Graham Round as a bonkers and stupid thing to attempt, I now know that I could give a BGR a fair crack of the whip. For sure, regardless of whether I would succeed or not, I'm certain if push came to shove, I could run and yomp for 24 hours, which in itself is a major revalation. Obviously the Bob Graham is that bit longer and a huge bit higher and steeper but, on the flip side, the fellsman (and the HPM) are incredibly boggy and trackless for a lot of the time; not exactly comparible with the Lake District I know but wading through bogs feels like you are taking three or four steps where two would suffice on harder ground and includes an awful lot of climbing/dragging/crawling out the other side :)

So.... next year it has to be another hpm and fellsman followed by a Bob Graham I reckon :)

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Originally Posted by BritNick

Thanks Colm. My left foot has become a pain. I'm keeping fingers crossed that it will return to being a foot by Saturday morning at 9am.

Ian, I feel privileged to have run in such company. I thought we were keeping up a better pace through the night than is the norm.
In the latest max test were you referring to blood lactate with heart rate? What about your maximum running speed? I bet it was faster than mine.
My stats were a fraction under 6mmol/l and 177bpm @ 14km/h max.

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I've PM'd you as this is off thread:o

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Originally Posted by Stolly

So.... next year it has to be another hpm and fellsman followed by a Bob Graham I reckon :)

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Good man Stolly, i'm giving the Fellsman a miss next year to concentrate on a BG. Planning a June attempt and thinking the Fellsman is too close to that.

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Originally Posted by merrylegs

Good man Stolly, i'm giving the Fellsman a miss next year to concentrate on a BG. Planning a June attempt and thinking the Fellsman is too close to that.

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I dunno donkarlo is doing one in June; see what he thinks afterwards )

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Originally Posted by Stolly

I dunno donkarlo is doing one in June; see what he thinks afterwards )

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I shall let you know;)

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Originally Posted by merrylegs

Good man Stolly, i'm giving the Fellsman a miss next year to concentrate on a BG. Planning a June attempt and thinking the Fellsman is too close to that.

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Shouldn't be too close, especially if you are looking towards the end of June. It used to be a set-piece before a BGR just to confirm winter training had gone well.

In 2006 I did a 24:08 BGR and followed it with a 23:39 round 7 weeks later so you should be able to recover quickly enough. It may be that time spent on the Fellsman would be better spent on the BGR route and that is more difficult to dispute.

Whatever you decide, enjoy your BGR.

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Originally Posted by FellShoeShuffler

Shouldn't be too close, especially if you are looking towards the end of June. It used to be a set-piece before a BGR just to confirm winter training had gone well.

In 2006 I did a 24:08 BGR and followed it with a 23:39 round 7 weeks later so you should be able to recover quickly enough. It may be that time spent on the Fellsman would be better spent on the BGR route and that is more difficult to dispute.

Whatever you decide, enjoy your BGR.

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That's what i'm thinking, a weekend in the Lakes on the BG route may serve me better than a Fellsman, its purely a personal thing, some do a Fellsman and a BG the following month and thats fine. I'm not saying its a no no, i'm not experienced enough to say. May change my mind next year and do both.
My goal from here is to crack on and get more climbing done and hopefully stay injury free, and enjoy myself.
Thanks Ian;)

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Originally Posted by merrylegs

That's what i'm thinking, a weekend in the Lakes on the BG route may serve me better than a Fellsman, its purely a personal thing, some do a Fellsman and a BG the following month and thats fine. I'm not saying its a no no, i'm not experienced enough to say. May change my mind next year and do both.
My goal from here is to crack on and get more climbing done and hopefully stay injury free, and enjoy myself.
Thanks Ian;)

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Get your self to Scotland for a long week end. three days of Munroing will probably do you more good. it did for me.

Working on big hills make the 'smaller' lakes climb seem alot easier and it keeps you fresher. Just repeating bits of the BG for training sake makes it a bit stale.

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Originally Posted by FellShoeShuffler

Shouldn't be too close, especially if you are looking towards the end of June. It used to be a set-piece before a BGR just to confirm winter training had gone well.

In 2006 I did a 24:08 BGR and followed it with a 23:39 round 7 weeks later so you should be able to recover quickly enough. It may be that time spent on the Fellsman would be better spent on the BGR route and that is more difficult to dispute.

Whatever you decide, enjoy your BGR.

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Ian

I'm going on five weeks as a good recovery time from the Fellsman. After the weekend, I'm bringing my BG forward to June 26th. The longer i leave it the more chance of injury in my case. A few more weeks of big ascent, and then...:eek:

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Originally Posted by IanDarkpeak

Get your self to Scotland for a long week end. three days of Munroing will probably do you more good. it did for me.

Working on big hills make the 'smaller' lakes climb seem alot easier and it keeps you fresher. Just repeating bits of the BG for training sake makes it a bit stale.

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Absolutely spot on there Ian. I live in the Lakes and spent too much time on the bg route last year, came to my first attempt in september 2008 and it all felt wrong on the day. Stale is the word. I just didn't want to get round. This time i have hardly been on the bg route, just short sections. Instead training on areas of the lakes i've not visited much before. Now i can't wait for the big day.

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Originally Posted by Bobert

Absolutely spot on there Ian. I live in the Lakes and spent too much time on the bg route last year, came to my first attempt in september 2008 and it all felt wrong on the day. Stale is the word. I just didn't want to get round. This time i have hardly been on the bg route, just short sections. Instead training on areas of the lakes i've not visited much before. Now i can't wait for the big day.

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Not that it mattered on my successful attempt as I couldn't see any thing but I never reccied the last section and only did a bit of leg 4. I wanted the latter legs to have interest rather than just following the same route I'd done many times.
I had pacers enough who knew all the tricky bits on those legs.

Got to go n...

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Originally Posted by Bobert

Ian

I'm going on five weeks as a good recovery time from the Fellsman. After the weekend, I'm bringing my BG forward to June 26th. The longer i leave it the more chance of injury in my case. A few more weeks of big ascent, and then...:eek:

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Good plan. I am sure that is a good idea especially as you are going so well just now.

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Originally Posted by IanDarkpeak

Get your self to Scotland for a long week end. three days of Munroing will probably do you more good. it did for me.

Working on big hills make the 'smaller' lakes climb seem alot easier and it keeps you fresher. Just repeating bits of the BG for training sake makes it a bit stale.

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Absolutely right. My final week of hard training will be pacing a 17 hour Joss then 6 days in Glencoe followed by Duddon to start my taper. Hoping for just the effect Ian mentions so that the big hills in the Lakes seem smaller.

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Originally Posted by merrylegs

Good man Stolly, i'm giving the Fellsman a miss next year to concentrate on a BG. Planning a June attempt and thinking the Fellsman is too close to that.

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That's good news Merry. :D

Keep us all posted. (You don't usually need an invitation). ;)

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Originally Posted by BGSec

That's good news Merry. :D

Keep us all posted. (You don't usually need an invitation). ;)

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Cheers Morgan;)

Back to the Fellsman, which parts of it are on private land and which parts can be reccied?

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Originally Posted by merrylegs

That's what i'm thinking, a weekend in the Lakes on the BG route may serve me better than a Fellsman

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Old Counties Tops Merry. You know you want to. :D

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Originally Posted by BGSec

Old Counties Tops Merry. You know you want to. :D

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Fancy that..........next year, busy this weekend, any routes or maps anywhere?

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Originally Posted by merrylegs

Fancy that..........next year, busy this weekend, any routes or maps anywhere?

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I've got a full set, laminated, after running it in 07 and 08.

2 clubmates were round our 'ouse Monday evening collecting route tips. I hope they were listening properly. :D

Quick summary:

ODG Hotel, over below Silver Howe, through Grasmere, bit of road, up Tongue Gill to Grizedale Tarn, on to Helvellyn, down to Wythburn car park, up Wythburn valley, up Flour Gill, round High Raise, Angle Tarn, Esk Hause, Scafell Pike, Upper Eskdale, down Mosedale, Cockley Beck bridge, up to the col between Grey Friar and Great Carrs, away to Coniston Old Man, 3 Shires Stone, down Wrynose Pass, cut round to Blea Tarn, last bit of the langdale descent, then head right to get back to the ODG.

Some of the route finding is quite tricky if the weather is traditional Lakes.

Nothing to it for a man of your calibre. :D

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Originally Posted by BGSec

I've got a full set, laminated, after running it in 07 and 08.

2 clubmates were round our 'ouse Monday evening collecting route tips. I hope they were listening properly. :D

Quick summary:

ODG Hotel, over below Silver Howe, through Grasmere, bit of road, up Tongue Gill to Grizedale Tarn, on to Helvellyn, down to Wythburn car park, up Wythburn valley, up Flour Gill, round High Raise, Angle Tarn, Esk Hause, Scafell Pike, Upper Eskdale, down Mosedale, Cockley Beck bridge, up to the col between Grey Friar and Great Carrs, away to Coniston Old Man, 3 Shires Stone, down Wrynose Pass, cut round to Blea Tarn, last bit of the langdale descent, then head right to get back to the ODG.

Some of the route finding is quite tricky if the weather is traditional Lakes.

Nothing to it for a man of your calibre. :D

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Cheers Morgan, my Fellsman partner did it last year and felt it was harder than the BG, mind you, she was pushed hard by her teamate, they won the mixed pairs trophy:cool:
Pencilled in for next year;)

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Originally Posted by merrylegs

Cheers Morgan, my Fellsman partner did it last year and felt it was harder than the BG, mind you, she was pushed hard by her teamate, they won the mixed pairs trophy:cool:
Pencilled in for next year;)

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I recall being surprised, nay horrified, to find Mrs BG Sec and I, with a comined age of 90 plus, leading the mixed race on arrival at Cockley Beck last year.

The pair behind didn't have our downhill speed and we had sneaked away descending Scafell Pike.

They climbed much stronger than we did and we were put to the sword going out to the Old Man and were 10 mins adrift by the end.

Still, we squeeked under 9 hours.

Mrs BGSec is making BG noises for next year, so who knows......a return to my most favourite race............:D

This looks a fantastic race and great BG prep I am told.

However, the mixed experience oif the preceding 9 hours and the persistent diabolical weather on Saturday morning around the Fairfield area somehow takes the shine off it!

Seeing a number of the OCT pairs making their way around Grisedale Tarn en route to Helvellyn... with most of a big day ahead of them... made me feel lucky to be heading for Dunmail and a return home.

Maybe the awful conditions just followed me around !!!:confused:

My entry reminder just plopped through the letter box. Entries open 1st January and I'm a deffo :D

I should definitely be there Stolly and maybe with the wife in tow.

We'll be back too :)

Ian, Karl or anyone else with experience, what are your thoughts on Fellsman same year as a BG please? Ideal prep or too much? :)

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Originally Posted by Derby Tup

Ian, Karl or anyone else with experience, what are your thoughts on Fellsman same year as a BG please? Ideal prep or too much? :)

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Worked for Karl, i fancy the Old Counties Tops instead by way of a change.

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Originally Posted by Derby Tup

Ian, Karl or anyone else with experience, what are your thoughts on Fellsman same year as a BG please? Ideal prep or too much? :)

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I thought about it but it tends to be too close to the best times for a BG. I did my BG on the same day as the OCT so that's definitely too close! :p

Obviously it depends on the actual date of an attempt but I'd say nothing too long or arduous within a month of an attempt - unless you are called Bland ;)

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Originally Posted by Derby Tup

Ian, Karl or anyone else with experience, what are your thoughts on Fellsman same year as a BG please? Ideal prep or too much? :)

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Traditionally the Fellsman has been used as a benchmark for the BG. Sub 18 hour Fellsman is considered as "on track" for a successful BG. You will need time to recover, of course, so don't schedule your BG for the next weekend :)

The only thing against it is that it isn't in the Lakes so the terrain is different and also, I suppose, you may be better spending time on the BG route rather than somewhere else.

OCT has the advantage of being in the Lakes with sustained climbing on tired legs which is just what you should be looking for.

If you can avoid getting stale on the BG route that is where I would suggest you spend the time but the Fellsman can provide a bit of welcome variety.

So much of the preparation is highly personal that others' preferences could be complete bobbins. Do what feels right for you :cool:

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Originally Posted by Derby Tup

Ian, Karl or anyone else with experience, what are your thoughts on Fellsman same year as a BG please? Ideal prep or too much? :)

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For me I'd have said too much, unless you were planning on a mid-July or later BG. I binned my first BG attempt at Wasdale and certainly wasn't recovered fully 5 weeks later for my 2nd go.

It's a very individual thing though, and if I'd have done the Fellsman I know I'd have given it everything and just wouldn't have been able to treat it as a training run even though I'd know there was a bigger goal in mind. It's proven successful for a lot of people though. My preference would be the OCT if you wanted a fairly long event in the build up.

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Originally Posted by Bob

I thought about it but it tends to be too close to the best times for a BG. I did my BG on the same day as the OCT so that's definitely too close! :p

Obviously it depends on the actual date of an attempt but I'd say nothing too long or arduous within a month of an attempt - unless you are called Bland ;)

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I'm planning a 25th June BG. The OCT is 22 May 2010, is this a bit close?

Bob is probably about right when he suggests nothing arduous within a month so you could make the OCT your last long day out and be pretty confident you would be recovered.

I did two BGRs 7 weeks apart so a month to recover from OCT should be enough but you will know better that anyone else how you feel. If you want to know why I did two (or you can't sleep properly) have a look at http://www.iwcs.blogspot.com/

Thanks for replies. My gut feeling is the Fellsman is too hard not to take seriously and I wouldn't recover in time for a mid-June BG. Climbing / descent is what bothers me (Ive done LDWA 100 plus two 50s), so specific training on the high fells could be more useful than 18hours on my feet in the Dales

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Originally Posted by IWCharters

Bob is probably about right when he suggests nothing arduous within a month so you could make the OCT your last long day out and be pretty confident you would be recovered.

I did two BGRs 7 weeks apart so a month to recover from OCT should be enough but you will know better that anyone else how you feel. If you want to know why I did two (or you can't sleep properly) have a look at http://www.iwcs.blogspot.com/

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Thanks Ian, prefer the OCT because it's Lakeland miles and climbs, as you say, it's all individual choice and feelings, enjoyed the Fellsman and would like to do again but want to spend more time in the lakes next year.
Reading your blog and thinking about the BG keeps me awake at night, great pictures from Swiss Toni's winter wonderland;)

I found the Fellsman a huge confidence boost as well as a good training run. To knock over two hours off my previous best really filled me with confidence for my BG. I had originally planned the 5th/6th June but ended up going on the 25th/26th June so I quite a bit of recovery.

The OCT probably would provide a welcome boost too but I decided the Fellsman might be a bit softer under foot to save the wear and tear

I found the fellsman tough on the legs compared to the BG. Did the fellsman in May this year and suffered with knee pain, i think because you have to pick the legs up so much more than i was used to. We just don't get peat groughs the size of double decker buses in the Lakes, so unless i go seriously off trail into tussocks its hard to replicate that ground of the Fellsman. But saying that completing the Fellsman was as DK says a massive confidence boost. I knew that if i could crack one of the 2 factors of a BG in training (distance and height) sheer wanting to get around would see me okay with the other on the day. I gave myself 7 weeks between the 2 events and that was plenty enough recovery.

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Originally Posted by IWCharters

Bob is probably about right when he suggests nothing arduous within a month so you could make the OCT your last long day out and be pretty confident you would be recovered.

I did two BGRs 7 weeks apart so a month to recover from OCT should be enough but you will know better that anyone else how you feel. If you want to know why I did two (or you can't sleep properly) have a look at http://www.iwcs.blogspot.com/

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Just had a very quick scan through that blog.

Noticed you were putting in on average between 70 and 100 miles a week with well over 10000ft of climbing.

Thats alot of running, but def achievable :)

FM form sat on my printer... with a few days off work now I know it will get filled in soon. I'm doing Hardmoors 55 before this, I expect this will be a much tougher prospect.

Personally, the Fellsman in 2008 was my last big training day before my BG. This culminated a 110 mile week and 26'K of climbing. My BG was 3 weeks later, but I felt as if I could have gone sooner. I'm no Billy Bland (or youngster) either, but I suppose it's all down to individuals and how quickly you recover from hard training both physically and mentally from a tough day out. But 3 weeks was plenty of time for me.

Got my application through the post and will hopefully be completing my 16th Fellsman in 2010. Eeek :D