best fell runner ever ?

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Originally Posted by GrahamB

Morgan

The world needs anoraks like us!

Graham

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Breezy

I like to think I'm a detail man. ;)

Don't want anyone getting the wrong end of the stick though!

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Originally Posted by Duff

Hmm.. be nice to think so Daz. However, if we took out of the calculation the new races since 1995 (which will obviously have records post that date), and then the ones with slightly different routes (which will have a new record post that date) I wonder what the figures would be like?

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I'll get back to you on this ;)

[might take me a couple of months though :o ]

I'll get mine :o

I've been doing some research and it's surprising just how misinformation becomes "fact" despite readily available evidence to the contrary.

With the concept of fell race records, these are only updated when they get broken so the assumption is that "no-one" has got near the record since they were set. If the fastest three or five winning times were recorded you'd see that this isn't the case.

Oh, within 1/2 hr of Billy Bland's BGR record? None as Baggins has rightly pointed out - the next fastest are Stuart Bland and Mark Hartell over an hour slower (comparative term!). Billy knocked nearly 4hrs off the record:eek: Imagine if someone reduced the current marathon record to 1hr 38mins? It was as if everyone else had just been playing at it.

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Originally Posted by Bob

I'll get mine :o

I've been doing some research and it's surprising just how misinformation becomes "fact" despite readily available evidence to the contrary.

With the concept of fell race records, these are only updated when they get broken so the assumption is that "no-one" has got near the record since they were set. If the fastest three or five winning times were recorded you'd see that this isn't the case.

Oh, within 1/2 hr of Billy Bland's BGR record? None as Baggins has rightly pointed out - the next fastest are Stuart Bland and Mark Hartell over an hour slower (comparative term!). Billy knocked nearly 4hrs off the record:eek: Imagine if someone reduced the current marathon record to 1hr 38mins? It was as if everyone else had just been playing at it.

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Brian Martin with regard to the LCT races has analysed the position comprehensively and a summary of his work has appeared in several TFM articles. In fact no one knows more about race times for these races (and many other matters since he was FRA Statistician for many years) than he does. The data is available.

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Originally Posted by BGSec

Although Holmesy is the Duddon record holder, those who ran in 2007 and 2008 ran a shorter course than the traditional route. Ian didn't break the existing record; he set a new one.

So the old, longer course record holder is still Billy Bland in a time for the longer course which was quicker than Ian's over the shorter course.

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Yeh funny how no one ever says anything about the Borrowdale route being longer now than it was when Billy set the record. Not that it's not a great record, it is (or should I say was?) but how does anyone have a chance of breaking it now the course is longer?

Cuts both ways...

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Originally Posted by TimW

Yeh funny how no one ever says anything about the Borrowdale route being longer now than it was when Billy set the record. Not that it's not a great record, it is (or should I say was?) but how does anyone have a chance of breaking it now the course is longer?

Cuts both ways...

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Well, Duddon could easily go back to the longer route in years when it is non-championship................but we've been spoilt with the new "improved" route, so not much chance I guess.

You'd get a few votes for making Borrowdale a bit shorter. ;)

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Originally Posted by Bob

...With the concept of fell race records, these are only updated when they get broken so the assumption is that "no-one" has got near the record since they were set. If the fastest three or five winning times were recorded you'd see that this isn't the case...

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Good point

since I only have access to results via this website, I can only go back to 2004 so...

looking at the TOPS Rankings (PowerOf10 as was) for "world class" performances, we find a dearth of athletes having entered the UK All-Time lists since start of 2004:
5k - 2 of 50 (Mo Farah, Andy Baddeley)
10k track - 1 of 51 (Mo Farah)
10k road - 1 of 26 (Mo Farah)
Half Mara - er, none.
Marathon - 2 of 52 (Jon Brown, Thomas Abyu)

without having done the research yet, who wants to bet that I don't find a much more significant proportion of record/close-to-record performances in long-established/same-route fell races...?

[even allowing for the fact that in some years conditions will have made close-to-record performances impossible on some courses]

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Originally Posted by DazTheSlug

Good point

since I only have access to results via this website, I can only go back to 2004 so...

looking at the TOPS Rankings (PowerOf10 as was) for "world class" performances, we find a dearth of athletes having entered the UK All-Time lists since start of 2004:
5k - 2 of 50 (Mo Farah, Andy Baddeley)
10k track - 1 of 51 (Mo Farah)
10k road - 1 of 26 (Mo Farah)
Half Mara - er, none.
Marathon - 2 of 52 (Jon Brown, Thomas Abyu)

without having done the research yet, who wants to bet that I don't find a much more significant proportion of record/close-to-record performances in long-established/same-route fell races...?

[even allowing for the fact that in some years conditions will have made close-to-record performances impossible on some courses]

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Interesting findings one thing i would consider though is the huge increase in number of those competing in fell running, in the 70's n 80's it was a much smaller field more limited in terms of geography. Compared with road/track id say number have definatly decreased, so with the to sides of the sport going in opposite direction in terms of growth you'd expect more people to be gettin closer to records?

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Originally Posted by TimW

Yeh funny how no one ever says anything about the Borrowdale route being longer now than it was when Billy set the record. Not that it's not a great record, it is (or should I say was?) but how does anyone have a chance of breaking it now the course is longer?

Cuts both ways...

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Fair point,

Similar to the Half Tour record which stands. It was clockwise in the record year and anticlockwise in the years since.

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Originally Posted by Fury1000

It all depends whether or not you think the BGR is a test of manhood or madness.

Maybe today's top fellrunners are more intelligent than Forum posters.

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Thats two more for the list :rolleyes:

It could be the current crop of top fellrunners aren't interested in doing long distance challenges.

Doh! I've done it myself :D