CliveQuote:
Originally Posted by Clive
you can now order a race map with hints tips and other info on it
Special Edale Skyline Race Map
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CliveQuote:
Originally Posted by Clive
you can now order a race map with hints tips and other info on it
Special Edale Skyline Race Map
It's a handy map, but I noted one error on it, which (amusingly) is on the excerpt shown!Quote:
Originally Posted by IanDarkpeak
Oh, thanks for that Ian, that's probably a better option.Quote:
Originally Posted by IanDarkpeak
Yes the excerpt shows last years map, and indeed there is an obvious error, but i'm sure most competitors were too busy drinking and eating to notice!Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe
This has already been corrected and the new version is currently at the printers.
You can order one online here.
Other maps in the Racemap series are also available here.
Indeed - I doubt many people have noticed! I presume the problem is copying from out of copyright OS maps? The right of way obviously moved at the top of Mam Nick at some point, probably when they widened the road and turned it into a cutting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobthrob
Handy map, and more useful than the Borrowdale one which shows you the wrong way at the end - last year it looked like every other runner knew the fast way to the finish except for me as I followed the map!
There are two rights of way leaing out of Mam Nick up to Lord's Seat - the one shown on the Edale Skyline map is the footpath, the one used in the race is a bridleway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe
A right-of-way is simply what it says, a notional right-of-way, and doesn't imply anything on the ground, but, in practice, footpaths which develop along rights of way quite often weave about and don't strictly follow the ROW for reasons of practicality.
Here, the foot ROW has been avoided by the real footpath (which the race doesn't use - it's on the opposite side of the ridge) because it is a less steep approach, and it coincides with the old Mam Tor bypass route.
It's slightly more complicated than that, but what I said wasn't correct either!Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudolph Hooker
The race map shows you following the footpath ROW as shown on the OS 1:25,000 map - but that is marked as going direct over Mam Nick - i.e. straight up the 6 foot wall! On the ground the path has been diverted to the N side of the pass (not shown on the race map), hence why everyone now uses the bridleway instead.
Apologies for the distraction, meant only as a humourous aside - as I said before, it's a handy map!
I'll eat my hat if anyone gets lost at Mam Nick ;)
Seeing as Mam Nick is the drinks station and cut off point, which seemed to attract quite a few people even in last year's glorious weather, I don't think anybody will be taking a wrong turn.
However, please tell me that last year's map is ok from Lord's seat onwards, as there is rather more potential for going astray!
Cheers - Raymond
Raymond. There are no other errors (that I am aware of) on the rest of the race route. The only other was a mathematical error in height!
Ran the latter half yesterday morning, well when I say ran that not strickly true but took that race map along and it seemed good, however did not show all the bogs and rivers that are there at moment
I'll go along with that as I was on the 2nd half as well yeaterday. The top of brown knoll has turned into a small lake just about.:( Nice to see some of the Kinder Triallers around Edale Cross!
Two of us Fat Boys up there as well. Very surprised we didn't go above calf deep over Brown Knoll, I suspect it was frozen a few inches down as it seemed quite firm. We did most of the route starting from the Hope road crossing but missed out Grindslow and the top of Win Hill. Wind and rain got a bit tiresome towards the end but by then I was long past caring.
There are only 50 places left.
Any entries received after those 50 places have been filled will be kept in chronological order, and if anyone drops out the person at the top of the list will be contacted.
I'm posting my entry tomorrow.Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyJ
Lets hope i get one of those 50 places
Entries have now closed. Any entries received from tomorrows post onwards will go on the waiting list. Those who have a place should receive confirmation over the next couple of days. Andy
The race maps seem like a good idea but are lacking vital information. there are no heights on the contours! - could be very important over brown knoll. I only noticed this after I bought one and used it on the langdale.
Why are heights on contours vital?Quote:
Originally Posted by amadablam
if you have an altimeter on your watch you can use this as another point of reference, I sense another hot topic...;)Quote:
Originally Posted by CribGoch
Perhaps so you know whether you're supposed to be going up or down. Not everyone knows the area like the back of their hand.Quote:
Originally Posted by CribGoch
Use of altimeters in races should be discouraged. A good reason for NOT having heights on the contours.Quote:
Originally Posted by IanDarkpeak
Thats not a matter of knowing the area, its a fairly basic map reading skill which you can practice sitting at home in front of the fire. Checking contour heights to see which way the slope goes is surely the last resort of a desperate man.Quote:
Perhaps so you know whether you're supposed to be going up or down. Not everyone knows the area like the back of their hand.
If the contours are close together then its steep; either steep up or steep down :). I tend to find that if you figure you're starting pretty low down in a valley, the contours all make sense from then on.
Obviously this logic doesn't work for races like Auld Lang Syne that start on top of a moor :rolleyes:
why?Quote:
Originally Posted by CribGoch
On the ML assessment you can use Altimeters, its a recognised nav aid.
So? A fell race isnt an ML assessment.Quote:
Originally Posted by IainR
Anyway, if you start allowing navigational aids beyond the good old map & compass, then where do you draw the line?
And yes, as far a mountain navigation goes, I am a luddite.
Whilst I do like the race map thingies with the route tips, I'd prefer to use them in conjunction with an OS / Harveys map. Not solely instead of.
I'm just pointing out that the national bodies appreciate that such devices are a part of traditional navigation. The MLTB's draw the line at GPS's.
I don't use altimeters, but I fail to see why the FRA should be against a navigational aid.
Never understood why runners and walkers are so against advances in technology, sailers/divers/fisherman have welcomed them with open arms.
I rarely use GPS's for nav work, infact I was using them last night with the MRT and could barely remember how to use one, but I've no qualms with people using them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IainR
Iwould expect all MLs to be familiar with all current trends and aid`s but i wouldn`t expect everyperson that uses mountains to be familiar with them.
Just the good old fashioned map and compass after all open the map and where you are stood is there if you know how to find it.;)
From a running perspective surely the main use of GPS is for post run 'stat attack' analysis and route profiling and what not. A bit like the equivalent of collecting cricket score sheets ;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stolly
exactly, that's what we have 305's for.
John, a altimeter is simple and informative (IF CALIBRATED)
Which brings us back to the original question. Why are contour heights vital on a race map?
So you can (if you want to) use an altimeter. Is this a Ground Hog Day???.......
I know thank you Iain;)Quote:
Originally Posted by IainR
Quote:
Originally Posted by CribGoch
To contour round hills at a set height instead of going over the top? Although I don't think you NEED the contour heights but would be helpful as you then have a rough idea at the height you are going to contour.
p.s don't mind altimeters in races as sometimes they can confuse said owner and I find a person competent in a map and a compass will tend to get the better route than someone playing with an altimeter.
No. Contour heights would be nice to have for the very small minority who would like to carry an altimeter with them on a fell race (and also presumably have the time to orient themselves with it). Hardly vital, seeing as 99.99% manage without one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginge Whinge
I'm sweating on the issue as to whether I have an entry - being a skin flint I posted my entry off Sunday night by 2nd class post only.
I wonder if the new Housing minister's 2nd name is "skin" what with her new policy suggestions made yesterday?
The KIMM has sometimes left off contour heights in order to reduce the advantage of altimeters, but in practice most navigation can be done using relative heights - i.e. I need get 100m above the col before I start to contour. As long as you know the contour interval, the absolute height is actually pretty irrelevant.
Having said all that, I dont think I would bother with an alti in a fell race.
My wifes watch was an altimtere one, and we had countless barnies when she'd say oh we're at x height, and I'd ask when she last calibrated it, and it would be a few weeks back :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnK
Amazing when you use one continually through the day, when fronts are moving through, how much the height will vary due to the pressure differences.
My Race Map from last year's Skyline has got the heights of the contours marked on - they're imperial as the map is based on non-copyright (more than 50 year old) OS mapping, but I've just spotted that the height of Brown Knoll is marked as 2503ft on the Race Map - getting to the top of Brown Knoll would be even tougher if it was really that high, and it would be the highest point in Derbyshire. My old 1inch map of the Peak District says it's actually 1866ft!Quote:
Originally Posted by amadablam
I agree with Dom - the Race Maps are a useful guide, but not a substitute for an OS/Harvey's map.
And no substitute for a recce or ten!:DQuote:
Originally Posted by Marvin
ive lost my map again:(
andy ????? any chance of a copy
sorry just realised i ate it last year as my fingers was to cold to get my snap out:)