Brexit

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Originally Posted by Fellbeast

Brexit itself has failed. The tories had an illusion that we could still have our cake and eat it for free but what we’ve actually got is peanuts, huge costs, reduced economic potential and a shit load of added red tape.

This article from the Guardian nails it https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...e_iOSApp_Other

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I started to read the article but was put off by the negativity, nastiness and just general BS that seems to be a feature of the Guardian these days, as well as the begging for financial support when I occasionally land on the website.
This from a rag in decline that seems to have a propensity for printing bare-faced lies as has been highlighted in the courts recently.

Interesting watching the Commons debate that even Barry Sheerman, the one famous for several red faced rants in the Commons over Brexit, said it was "a much better deal than I expected, so I will support it in the Division Lobbies tonight"

Sone in Norway also seem to think the arrangement is quite a good one.
https://www.thelocal.no/20201229/nor...l-than-the-eea

And a more balanced Remainer view of the arrangements can be found in the Indi by John Rentoul.
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices...-b1778653.html

I fear the Guardian is little more than the whinging paper these day, personally I don't believe a word that is printed in there, it is not the newspaper it once was.

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Originally Posted by molehill

I fear the Guardian is little more than the whinging paper these day, personally I don't believe a word that is printed in there, it is not the newspaper it once was.

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For 60 years I have taken either The Daily Telegraph and/or The Times (and the Financial Times when someone else was paying), and briefly The Guardian when it was de rigeur for a new job I had moved into, and there has been a steady decline in standards of coverage, balance, honesty, use of English etc

I appreciate that newspapers are part of a print industry in terminal decline but that does not alleviate the regret.

(Although The Daily Telegraph does still print my letters so it's not all bad:))

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Originally Posted by Graham Breeze

(Although The Daily Telegraph does still print my letters so it's not all bad:))

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"Angry of Ilkley?"

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Originally Posted by noel

"Angry of Ilkley?"

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Nah. Droll humour illuminating the human condition.:)

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Originally Posted by molehill

I fear the Guardian is little more than the whinging paper these day, personally I don't believe a word that is printed in there, it is not the newspaper it once was.

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Haha it’s all about perspective - I on the other hand think that the Daily Telegraph has gone full on stark raving right wing bonkers Daily Mail.

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Originally Posted by Graham Breeze

For 60 years I have taken either The Daily Telegraph and/or The Times (and the Financial Times when someone else was paying), and briefly The Guardian when it was de rigeur for a new job I had moved into, and there has been a steady decline in standards of coverage, balance, honesty, use of English etc

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But does the Grauniad still have the best typographic errors?

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Originally Posted by Fellbeast

Haha it’s all about perspective - I on the other hand think that the Daily Telegraph has gone full on stark raving right wing bonkers Daily Mail.

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I agree, its circulation has plunged and I loathe Alison Pearson but I share the paper with my mother and she prefers it to The Times so as a dutiful son...?

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Originally Posted by Fellbeast

I on the other hand think that the Daily Telegraph has gone full on stark raving right wing bonkers Daily Mail.

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Have you read the Mail or Telegraph lately?

The Telegraph has certainly veered to the Centre over the last couple of years, but I suppose if one is looking from your perspective the Independent is probably alt right and the Morning Star rather centrist and mainstream ;)

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Originally Posted by Graham Breeze

Nah. Droll humour illuminating the human condition.:)

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Glad to hear it. Unfortunately the telegraph is too right-wing for me so I'm unlikely to read any of them.

My other criteria in a paper: the Telegraph cryptic crossword is not great. Good cricket coverage though from what I remember. These days I prefer Michael Atherton in the Times - when I can get a free copy. I think I'd buy the Indie if I ever actually bought a paper.

I used to read the Gruniad, only because it was free and to laugh at Owen Jones, but it kicks me out after about thirty seconds now. So, being frugal, I am reduced to Spiked. Has anything happened?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EqrduFcX...png&name=small

No, not the Guardian but the New York Times

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Originally Posted by anthonykay

But does the Grauniad still have the best typographic errors?

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My favourite is still the time they had to apologise because the previous day's crossword grid and clues did not belong together. Adds a new dimension to the term 'cryptic'.

Here's one person who perhaps could be forgiven for thinking he'd been sold a pig in a poke. Or perhaps he might think that the concept of 'global Britain' and the 'benefits of trading all over the globe' had been sold to him under false pretences. He might, perhaps, also think that the idea that 'unnecessary EU red tape' had been holding back companies such as his had been somewhat exaggerated. His ten employees might have thoughts of their own, as well.

He's been in business for 50 years. All his customers are in the EU. His business turns over around 2 million pounds per year, and employs about ten staff. He was a very big supporter - advocate, even - of Brexit. He now thinks his business might go under because, due to the UK having left the EU, his business is no longer competitive.


Speaking on Sky News, Peter Wood – an eel exporter from Gloucester – said “be careful what you wish for”, revealing that a raft of red tape had driven buyers to producers in EU countries.

“We all produce the documentation but unfortunately our customers have also got a raft of documentation to produce to allow the import to go ahead.

“So why buy from the UK? Might as well buy from another producer in France who can deliver to the door no documentation, no problems.”

Asked how he feels about his vote now, he added: “I think be careful what you wish for – I thought we were going to get a global market, this is going to be a new opportunity.

“It hasn’t turned out like that. I’d never have voted for Brexit if I knew we were going to lose our jobs.”


This won't be too much of a concern to Boris Johnson, Nigel Farage, Michael Gove, Iain Duncan Smith, Jacob Rees-Mogg, et al., of course. They've done very well out of Brexit. I can imagine it's quite a big concern to Peter Wood, his 10 employees, and his suppliers, though. (Although I suppose they could join all the ballet dancers and retrain for a job 'in cyber'.)

Of course, other individuals, companies and businesses might do well out of Brexit. So that's alright, then. And now we'll be able to use imperial measurements to describe fell races again, just like we did in the good old days before it was all spoiled for us, when stood the church clock at ten to three and there was honey still for tea. And before we got old.

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/ne...s-viral/29/12/

https://twitter.com/rolandmcs/status...51610595209217

https://www.gloucestershirelive.co.u...s-hugh-4845593

https://www.businessinnovationmag.co...eel-fishermen/

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Originally Posted by Fellbeast

No, not the Guardian but the New York Times

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So brilliant, I can't even tell if you're serious :D
A parody account on the FRA Forum perchance?

The NYT is becoming like the Daily Mash, with it's latest headline grabber about the UK mix and matching vaccines.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...exit-boom.html
Andrew Neil

Economically we’ve been pulling away from the European Union for some time.

In 1990, 60 per cent of our exports went to Europe. Now it’s closer to 40 per cent.

We were the only EU member to trade more with the rest of the world than with our EU partners. Significantly, we run a decent trade surplus with the rest of the world; we run a huge deficit with the EU.

The Eurozone is expected to languish in slow or no growth for the foreseeable future, much like Japan. It is hobbled by an over-valued currency, limited fiscal firepower and a monetary policy that has run out of ammunition. It is deeply divided North-South over debt and East-West over civil liberties and the rule of law.

Asia is where the opportunities will be in the 2020s. And America, where consumers and businesses accumulated over $3.5 trillion in savings and liquid assets during the pandemic.

That’s a wall of money ready to be spent if ever I saw one.

I would be fine if the eel guy goes bust, eels are a protected species (under european eel regulation) and critically endangered.
I've not understood how we continue to licence the capture of tons of glass eels annually for export to EU eel farms. There's an estimated 350million glass eels illegally smuggled to the far east each year on top of the legal captures to Europe.
A fine way to conserve a protected species!

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Originally Posted by Graham Breeze

I agree, its circulation has plunged and I loathe Alison Pearson but I share the paper with my mother and she prefers it to The Times so as a dutiful son...?

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Long long ago in a galaxy far away I used to read the Telegraph all the time, mainly because of Matt, easily the best newspaper cartoonist there is, and the sports coverage. Nowadays, despite Matt and the the sports coverage, I wouldn’t be seen dead reading it.

I have the guardian and the Times on my phone, paying voluntarily for the Guardian and subscribing to the Times. Witton seemed to be complaining about the Guardian always asking for monetary contributions but, as things stand, it’s entirely free on-line (if you’re happy not to help them) which is a rare thing. Also their coverage is supremely fair and balanced, more so than even the Times. Yes they complain a lot but Jesus there’s a heck of a lot to complain about with this shower

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Originally Posted by Fellbeast

Also their coverage is supremely fair and balanced

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fair and balanced like the 3 year pursuit of innocent people? Yeh right. Good one. Keep 'em coming :D

Blimey, if only someone could’ve foreseen this....

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ExFWhXSX...pg&name=medium

So UK salmon and beef will be cheaper for people in the UK then? ;)

And presumably things imported will get more expensive. Do I need to ready the household for a change from avocado to gravlax. The sacrifices we have a make...

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Originally Posted by noel

So UK salmon and beef will be cheaper for people in the UK then? ;)

And presumably things imported will get more expensive. Do I need to ready the household for a change from avocado to gravlax. The sacrifices we have a make...

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You don't need to worry about anything Noel.

Of course the volumes would have been reduced a little all things being equal. I will now have a few EU customers who may chose to buy from one of my EU competitors so they don't need to worry about a customs charge.
But by the same token I'll pick up UK customers who used to buy from EU suppliers, but also don't want to pay the customs charge.

But there are 3 major factors at play in the figures that our friend Stolly has posted.

1. Companies planning for January disruption. I filled my boots in November and December. I just took my first significant delivery of CO2 cylinders from Austria last week and my main supplier in Slovakia will be shipping a selection of parts to me next week - I normally buy every 4-6 weeks.
My customers in the EU did similar. I emailed them all in the Autumn recommending that they avoid January. Most did.
I know this was widespread.

2. January disruption. There was some of course. Some are not used to the paperwork requirements. I am, and I still had problems with EU Customs.
I had one package returned claiming I had used a tariff code that did not exist, but I've been shipping using that code for 6-7 years all over the world, and several other shipments went out that month using the same code.
It went the second time - so a glitch at the EU customs end who had refused to clear it.
Covid has also meant lots of short-staffed customs offices.

Funnily enough, the worst place seems to be Ireland. Dublin customs were taking up to 4 weeks to clear goods. I assume that much of what comes in to Dublin is either through UK or pre-cleared in Rotterdam, so they were probably ill prepared.
One of my customers were waiting for a search light, 6 weeks stuck in Dublin.


3. Covid - it has affected shipments in several ways but clearly demand is down.

I'm pretty sure we will see a big bounceback in February and March mainly due to the point 1, but also as point 2 seems to have been largely resolved.

But because of point 3, and the situation in much of the EU at the moment, it could be 2022 before we can really judge what the effect has been.

More pre-Brexit “scaremongering” that actually wasn’t then.....

http://reuters.com/business/finance/...dy-2021-04-15/

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Originally Posted by Fellbeast

More pre-Brexit “scaremongering” that actually wasn’t then.....

http://reuters.com/business/finance/...dy-2021-04-15/

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I voted Remain. But the democratic referendum vote went the otherway - to Leave. What's done is done. We all need to get on with it now and make the very best of it as we can - together.

So, let's now stop being negative people with negative views.

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Originally Posted by Mossdog

I voted Remain. But the democratic referendum vote went the otherway - to Leave. What's done is done. We all need to get on with it now and make the very best of it as we can - together.

So, let's now stop being negative people with negative views.

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Word for word what you say. We can carry on blaming and talking ourselves into the mire, or move on, adapt and make a success in the long term.

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Originally Posted by Mossdog

I voted Remain. But the democratic referendum vote went the otherway - to Leave. What's done is done. We all need to get on with it now and make the very best of it as we can - together.

So, let's now stop being negative people with negative views.

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The same here another that voted remain and I couldn`t agree more with you sentiments Moss Dog in fact given where we are now compared to Europe I am glad we are no longer part of it and am looking forward to the future

Obviously I’m bashing on, don’t get me wrong and what’s done is done, but I will never forgive or forget the lies and complete disregard for the obvious problems that brexit would and has caused. And the fact that so many major issues were completely disregarded and the whole campaign rested on a false promise to the NHS and Turkey joining the EU. And Nigel Farage somehow bringing Syrian refugees into to the mix

But just shutting your eyes and carrying on won’t necessarily help. A great deal of shit has yet to hit the fan on this. Northern Ireland troubles, more popularity for Welsh independence and the actuality of what might be real Scottish Independence, I’m looking at you

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Originally Posted by Marco

I think that should extend to drones too.

When I saw the thread title 'Today's droning' I thought it was going to be a rant about lawnmower noise, so I suspect some people started off on the wrong foot.

I think, and hope, that if the thread was re-branded with the title 'Photography with a view', (or something similar), it would prompt members to view it favourably and post their own views and videos

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Haha nope that’s all water under the drone bridge now and I’m facing up to the reality of there no longer being a today’s droning thread

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Originally Posted by Marco

It seems like the best thing to do would be to close this thread

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I can do that :D
Not sure I should though. I find it entertaining seeing Brian still bleating on :D

While I don't want this thread to keep going, it's ironic that pre-brexit, all the predictions about what would happen were just that: predictions.

Whereas now, we are in a better position to say whether Brexit was good or bad because we can actually see the results (albeit only the short-term ones for now).

Having said that, people will always argue "yes, but that would/wouldn't have happened anyway". So as with most politics, it's all still opinion.

That's my final word on the subject. Hopefully this thread will drift into oblivion along with the CL's and TH's ongoing discussion debate about a balanced portfolio vs the price of gold. I wonder how that tracker is looking today. ;)

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Originally Posted by noel

...along with the CL's and TH's ongoing discussion debate about a balanced portfolio vs the price of gold.

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Surely now Bitcoin or Tesla shares?

As for: "...whether Brexit was good or bad...we can actually see the results..."

Not really. The UK departing from the EU has affected how the EU has behaved and now behaves. When we were a part we could counter-balance the inanities of idiots like Macron and with our departure he and Merkel et al are free to behave like idiots.

I always thought our membership was one aspect of our assistance for developing countries.

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Originally Posted by Graham Breeze

I always thought our membership was one aspect of our assistance for developing countries.

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Indeed. If we had stayed in, we could have organised a vaccination programme that would have had 50% of EU residents vaccinated by now.

Brexit has sure been a great thing for the fishing industry..... (joke, it hasn’t really)

Oh…….

I was talking to a Cornish fisherman last week.

They are doing their fruits in down there.

I think they'd be all Ok with the regime in place, if it was policed by the UK authorities.

Foreign vessels are leaving their ports and then switching of their trackers, fishing illegally and heading back to port.
The infamous Dutch factory trawler Margiris has done that this weekend. Try finding it on the marine traffic website.
It's just come back on east of the Orkneys.
It's illegal to do that.

But they are also facing Romanian pirates, who are tracking boats and then stealing their catch by the use of force. I've heard of the piracy issues around the horn of Africa, but never thought we'd have it with fish off the Lizard.

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Originally Posted by noel

While I don't want this thread to keep going, it's ironic that pre-brexit, all the predictions about what would happen were just that: predictions.

Whereas now, we are in a better position to say whether Brexit was good or bad because we can actually see the results (albeit only the short-term ones for now).

Having said that, people will always argue "yes, but that would/wouldn't have happened anyway". So as with most politics, it's all still opinion.

That's my final word on the subject. Hopefully this thread will drift into oblivion along with the CL's and TH's ongoing discussion debate about a balanced portfolio vs the price of gold. I wonder how that tracker is looking today. ;)

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It’s not even close, I won hands down

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Originally Posted by TheHeathens

It’s not even close, I won hands down

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Oh hi TH. It's good to see you back on here after a long spell of inactivity.

BTW: Did you watch the football at the weekend? ;)