land of giants

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Originally Posted by Wheeze

The concept of greater good is core to much of what the profession has to do and it is debated at the highest levels of academia and law. The concept of trust comes in here doesn't it?

Sorry, but the phrase altruistic savage is an oxymoron.

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Wheeze why don't you explain what you mean by 'Greater good,' so we can discuss it.

I admire your zest,but your totally ignorant of the history of Altruism.You clearly don't understand it's meaning.

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Originally Posted by Margarine

GD you forgot Buddhism. It is much more a philosophy than a religion and very much relevant to the current debate. Life is suffering; suffering is caused by desire; desire can be overcome. Christopher Leigh is buggering about with semantics; I know his basic argument is wrong because there are only three 'mortal' sins in Buddhism and they are anger, ignorance and greed; and selfishness, whichever way he wants to dress it up, is a form of greed.

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All that from a Man/women who chants incantations to God!

I understand perfectly thank you. Sweeping generalisations are one thing but personally directed criticisms are not conducive to balanced discourse. I've made my point. I'll leave it there thank you. I prefer my vision of the future to yours.

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Originally Posted by Wheeze

I understand perfectly thank you. Sweeping generalisations are one thing but personally directed criticisms are not conducive to balanced discourse. I've made my point. I'll leave it there thank you. I prefer my vision of the future to yours.

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They are if the criticisms are true! Enjoyed the debate.

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Originally Posted by christopher leigh

Just got in after a 4mile run and the gloves are on!
Don't mistaken Altruism with kindness and generosity.
Selfishness means 'concerned with ones own interests.' Most people equate Selfishness with hedonism.But, just because you want something doesn't mean it's in your interests.A Man has to discover what values are actually to his interests.

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This bit's interesting. Am I right in thinking that you approve of kindness and generosity? I wonder if Ayn Rand is just massively misunderstood (like the Archbishop of Canterbury, a wise fool if ever there was one!) and is in fact a lovely, lovely man.

(Are the gloves boxing gloves in case you have to knock somebody off the pavement if they get in your way?:p )

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Originally Posted by Margarine

GD you forgot Buddhism.

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Sorry Margarine. Respect:)

[QUOTE=christopher leigh;104840]

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Originally Posted by daz h

The Tories are finished.They,like Labour have no ideology or political code.In the next few years, middle of the road politics will make way for the extremes(consistent ideology).They'll be no sitting on the fence then!

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Remember what I said about the Oklahoma bombings a while back?
If what you say is true we should all be afraid...very afraid.
Do all the nutters come over from America then and start setting up training camps at Shooters Nab and weapons caches in Woodhead Tunnel so they can't be found even with a GPS.
Will Ayn Rand be seen at last?:eek:

i didnt even post that


right christopher you say that there are not many selfish people left in the UK , well i have to differ.
your views about altruism have been noted but im not sure i like your survival of the fittest kind of attitude , i may have you all wrong i probably have misread what our true meanings of how we should run this country are.
sorry if i have

i just want this country to restore some pride to itself and become a great nation again

Margarine does not chant incantations to God - Buddhists do not have a belief in God.

Lots of CL's views are hard to refute, and it is hard to argue with someone who seems so unwilling to acknowledge that there might be validity in opposing points of view. He obviously has read a bit of political theory, and there seems to be some cohesion in his vision. It may be 'natural' to live in the way he prescribes and it is easy to see how this vision fits in with 'the laws of the jungle' . I think that capitalism developed out of feudalism and gave rise, via technology/mass media etc. to consumerism, and it is this which threatens our existence. I am not a political theorist and I know I am about to be shot down by CL but I believe capitalism is an inherently BAD IDEA and free market economics are bad environmentally, morally and socially. I think that Marx was basically right when he predicted that capitalism would eventually collapse, he said it would be dismantled when the workers took control of the means of production - government has prevented that from happening, and we are all too entranced by material comfort and cheap shit to start the revolution, but if there is to be hope for us, capitalism will be replaced by 'green' political thinking which works at a local level and is antithetical to globalisation and the vested interests of corporations and their puppets. This might all be complete cobblers, but I find CL's views utterly depressing and even if he is right, I choose another way.


Ommmmmmmmm......


:D