Brexit

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Originally Posted by Llani Boy

All the news channels are reporting that British Steel going tits up is due to Brexit. That may or may not be the case but they are not reporting that our Government cannot bail them out because the EU won’t let them.
Biased again as usual.

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Tata sold British Steel for £1 back in 2016. It had been struggling for years.

It doesn't compete much with Chinese steel, as BS produces typically higher grade product.

The main issue was energy - and still is. UK heavy industry pays 63.2% more than the EU15 average. This is almost entirely due to policies around climate change and how we implement them in the UK.

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The UK Govt introduced relief measures to rebalance this anomaly, but the competitor countries on the Continent have done similar so the differential has been maintained.

As the EU is British Steels biggest market, it's competitiveness is compromised.

And now we have the economic downturn in the EU again.

So this isn't really an EU issue. It is a Government energy policy and EU economy problem.

But it is also true, that had we already left, we could by now consider UK procurement policy where Govt could write in to contracts for infrastructure, ships etc. that we buy UK Steel wherever possible. Something they cannot do now.

It would surely be better to pay 5-10% more than international market rate and help sustain a key strategic industry than keep having to chuck 100s of millions at it in state aid.

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Originally Posted by noel

A genuinely quixotic post.

I see Teresa May is going to have a go at getting a parliamentary majority for rehashed deal (or rather agreement) number 4. Already MPs from all parties are lining up to state they won't back it.

Again, Teresa May seems to be trying to position the false option of her deal or no deal.

It's hard to see a way out of the current impasse. Let's say May is toppled and a genuine euro-sceptic takes control of the conservatives and therefore government. They'll still have to get any course of action through parliament, which doesn't seem likely for any outcome. What then? Another election to try to get a majority of
conservative eurosceptic MPs in the house? That would be very risky. Another referendum? I can't see the conservatives going for that either.

What's your money on?

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It is a tough call Noel.

My money is on
May goes
New Tory leader, probably Johnson.
New approach seeking to bind in all Tory MPs on the back of new leader's appointment which will include no deal - anyone now buying in to it, whip removed.

There are about 10 Remain MPs left in the Tories that have persistently blocked May. But she lost any authority in 2017. A new leader will have a chance to pull rank and the DUP will support, along with perhaps half a dozen Labour.
So it has a chance to go through.

If it cannot get through Parliament, General Election in Autumn.

That might not breal the impasse, but I thuink it will. The Tory MPs blocking the new PM would be moved on and replaced by new candidates.

A Leave PM guaranteeing the UK leaving could swing back many if not all of the Brexit Party votes, including Labour ones, as quick as the Brexit Party has mopped them up.

In fact, Farage would probably only stand candidates against standing Remain MPs in such a situation.

Leaving withoout a deal would mean tarrifs on UK steel going to the EU, which would probably wipe out that market. Even if UK industry was "encouraged" to buy UK produced product would that be enough to support the company, I think not. The EU is trying to protect domistically produced steel with the tarrifs in imposed on China a couple of years ago. If the UK goes it alone would it impose the same tarrifs on China? Not a good start to the new global UK.

https://www.theguardian.com/business...rt-talbot-tata

Do any other EU countries have nationalised steel companies? I hear people state the government can't act because of EU regulations. From my limited understanding here, that precludes state subsidy, but does it also preclude state ownership?

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Originally Posted by Witton Park

If it cannot get through Parliament, General Election in Autumn.

That might not breal the impasse, but I thuink it will. The Tory MPs blocking the new PM would be moved on and replaced by new candidates.

A Leave PM guaranteeing the UK leaving could swing back many if not all of the Brexit Party votes, including Labour ones, as quick as the Brexit Party has mopped them up.

In fact, Farage would probably only stand candidates against standing Remain MPs in such a situation.

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I think a general election is the most likely outcome because the parliamentary arithmetic won't have changed. Although I am voting for the Brexit Party at the EU elections tomorrow I will revert back to the Tories if a proper Brexiteer becomes Prime Minister (not that it would make any difference in my safe Labour constituency).

My fear is that many others won't be so forgiving after the last few years of hopeless negotiation and that a large Brexit Party vote will allow Corbyn in through the middle. Now that would be a catastrophe for the country. A lot depends on the strategy of Farage as you have alluded to. He has been scathing of Johnson and Raab though because they voted for May's WA at the third time of asking.

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Originally Posted by DrPatrickBarry

Leaving withoout a deal would mean tarrifs on UK steel going to the EU, which would probably wipe out that market. Even if UK industry was "encouraged" to buy UK produced product would that be enough to support the company, I think not. The EU is trying to protect domistically produced steel with the tarrifs in imposed on China a couple of years ago. If the UK goes it alone would it impose the same tarrifs on China? Not a good start to the new global UK.

https://www.theguardian.com/business...rt-talbot-tata

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It's not so cut and dry Pat.

Yes there will be tariffs on steel in to the EU which will affect British Steel, but there will also be tariffs on steel from the EU.
That's assuming it's WTO standard terms and the EU don't agree a GATT 24 as we are now.

In 2017 exports to the EU were £2.7B in Chapter 72 "Iron and Steel" set against imports of £3.3B

So there may be opportunities to gain more business here in the UK just by the introduction of tariffs as prices for EU manufactured steel will increase by circa 10%.

Also the UK Govt (for example) in the contracts for Naval Vessels, will be able to specify the use of British Steel where possible in the contracts.

In that guardian article I linked it mentioned the UK imports about half of the steel it uses. Partly becasue particular types of steel are not produced in the UK.

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Originally Posted by DrPatrickBarry

In that guardian article I linked it mentioned the UK imports about half of the steel it uses. Partly becasue particular types of steel are not produced in the UK.

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correct. that was also an issue for the US when the put anti dumping duty on EU steel, as they had to buy some technical steel from the UK as we are the only ones that make it.

But it is not the case across the board and duties cut both ways.

Domino's "Hi Sir, My name is Theresa, how can I help you?"

Me "Hi Theresa, I'd like a 12" Margherita with Prosciutto, mushrooms, salami and an egg with a soft yolk on top. Can you deliver?"

Theresa "No problem Sir, it will be with you in 30 minutes."

10 minutes later...
Theresa "Hi it's me again. No eggs, sorry sir. Do you still want to proceed? Perhaps add another topping? Chef says the soft yoke is a pain anyway so just as well"

Me "Just go ahead without. It'll be fine".

10 minutes later.....
Theresa "Hi Sir, it's Theresa again. The kitchen tell me the Prosciutto isn't a good idea, they suggest honey roast ham. The prosciutto can dry up a bit in the oven. Is that OK sir?

Me "Yes, but you said 30 minutes. I'm getting hungry now and I have other stuff to do. How long?"

Theresa "Just an extra 10 minutes sir if that's OK. We'll crack on with it now we have that cleared up. I think you've made a wise choice".

10 minutes later......
Theresa "Sir, can I tempt you with the offer we have on today? It's the Hawaiian. It has ham on, and we'll add some mushrooms free of charge, so it won't be a million miles away from what you ordered, which was a little impractical wasn't it sir? We also had our nutritionist have a look at your original order and let's just say she thinks the Hawaiin is in your best interests. A little less protein and saturated fat and you get 2 of your 5 a day"

Me "Yes, just get on with it. Just get me a pizza here in the next 15 minutes."

Domino's "It will probably be 20 minutes yet sir. These things take time."

Me "OK, get on with it"

20 minutes later...
Me "Where's my pizza? I'm here, hungry and nothing yet and we are over 50 minutes since I first ordered. It was supposed to be here in 30!

Theresa "Sorry sir, your address is over the bridge. It's log jam. Our delivery van is caught up in it. Won't be long"

10 minutes later....
Theresa "Sorry sir. There's been a little mishap. the van has overturned on a sharp bend a few minutes away from you. Your Hawaiin looks more like a Calzone. Our driver is OK and say's he'll bring on foot if you still want it. It can be with you in 10."

Me "JUST GET IT TO ME!!!!!"

15 minutes later....
Me "Theresa, where the hell is my pizza???"

Domino's "Sorry Sir, Theresa has left now. I'm Amber. What can I do for you?"

Me "I have a pizza order that should have been delivered over 30 minutes ago."

Amber "Do you know what you ordered sir?"

Me "Hello, is that Papa John's?"

Papa John's "Yes, Nige here. What can I do for you sir?"

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Originally Posted by Witton Park

Can you deliver?

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Another one from the otherpoint of view.
Some of you have probably allready seen this.
Apparently the waitress is Alastair Campbell's daughter.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CldNSGlPpT8