Coming soon ?
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Coming soon ?
We are on with it:D
Ultralightweight, very flexible,underfoot protection, no raised heel
Were on with it:eek:
This whole barefoot/natural running wont be for everyone as it goes against everything that the marketing Bull S*** that the big brands tell you about.
They may convince people that heel striking, motion control, fancy air, gels,pillars and postings is what is needed, but we are adamant that having neutral, unrestrictive, flexible footwear is the way to go.
As someone recently said to me " If you want to compete with the big boys ( Nike, Adidas, Mizuno, Saucony, New Balance, Brooks & Salomon) then you really should have more supportive & cushioned shoes" When I explained that we were sticking with our brand philosophy of neutral shoes, low profile, natural running. They then commented that "you will never have their market share"
I dont want to sound all angelical but its not just a question of making a fast buck for us, we are passionate about our sport and what we do.
So we may not be one of the biggest, flashiest brands in the market.... But hey thats not what its about unless were missing something:confused:.
Long may it remain that way.:)
(Run the Lydiard way, Arthur Lydiard 1978) 'injuries to joints and bone wear are invariably caused by poor buffers and jaring on hard surfaces. Without plenty of reasonably soft rubber between you and the ground, the shock of each stride is felt over a wide area of the body and problems arise in unexpected places.
You need padding which gives you a recoil from the ground. Shoes which achieve this will not be cheap to buy but they will be cheap in the long run because the damage you can suffer is difficult to eliminate, particularly in the big man. Consider the loss of training and competing time-and get good shoes.'
I don't always agree with Lydiard but he's right here. My opinion is shoes should have single width mid-soles and should provide recoil from the ground in the plane of motion. They should flex easily with the foot and the upper should be minimized to that which is needed for protection.
By the way I've watched videos of gymnasts landing after the vault and I've yet to see one land without a floor pad.
Another point. Evolution intended us to use our minds, to make things better. If it's wrong to run with springs in our shoes if they reduce injury, then it's wrong to jump out of a plane without a parachute.
" My parachute won't open."
" Or don't worry there's less force when landing without one."
AARRRGGGG
My quotes from Lydiard were from the 1980's so he obviously changed his mind.
Your gymnast comment is irrelevant as I was citing a specific study not speaking about gymnastics in general.
I repeat IT HAS NEVER BEEN SHOWN THAT CUSHIONING AND SUPPORT PREVENT INJURY DESPITE A DIRECT CHALLENGE TO DO SO BEING ISSUED TO RUNNING SHOE MANUFACTURERS. Therefore we haven't made things better, by overly cushioning and supporting our shoes for the last 40 years we've thoroughly screwed things up.
Also, on a slightly different note, evolution never intended us, or any other species, to do anything as it's a blind process.
I think I've put enough scientific/informed evidence into this discussion now to win the day and, if there's anyone left reading it, I'm happy for them to make up their own minds now. :rolleyes:
really enjoying this thread
I'm not taking sides but CL, I'm sorry but that stuff about parachutes and trampolines is just really lame, try harder....
and I'm still waiting for the answer to my question that was addressed to CL... :rolleyes:
Ok for those who advocate heel striking and cushioning.
Maybe these are the answer HERE:D
Even got good TESTIMONIALS:eek:
I think you can attach an extra spring at the front if your a midfoot/forefoot striker:D
Lydiard was talking about the rolling of the foot in your example, not cushioning. In the late 80s he assisted Converse in the design of a running shoe. That shoe bore his name and it had cushioning.
Cushioning by definition is something that reduces impact. So when you ask manufacturers to prove that 'cushioning' reduces injuries, they don't have to because such information is implied in the concept 'cushioning.'
Now evolution is a process of development. To say it never intended us to do anything is a contradiction in terms.
Nicklas you're part of a clan that cannot see things that are obvious to a goat. If a modern researcher saw a beautiful woman walking down the street he'd have to rush home and work out statistically whether he fancied her. That's if he made it home without his shoes.
CL... you're clutching at straws now. I think people are seeing through your arguments as being flawed and flimsy.
About cushioning you're missing the vital point that, in order for a running shoe to have enough cushioning to even make a tiny dent on the amount of impact force coming up through the body, it'd have to be ludicrously thick. That's why we have inbuilt shock absorption systems that only function correctly if the foot is uninhibited. We don't need it in running shoes as it does sod all good and prevents our bodies functioning optimally.
Evolution is a blind process with no end goal, objective or intention. One of the few things that Gould and Dawkins agree on.
.... and another one of your ridiculous analogies to finish with.
I think the general view is you've lost this one, bow out gracefully.;)
Well stop calling it cushioning then. If the stuff they put in shoes doesn't reduce impact then it isn't cushioning. The point is you keep on insisting it is and arguing it isn't.
I like bouncy balls. I like the way such a small amount of rubber bounces so high and a concrete ball doesn't bounce at all. I also like trampolines. How such a small amount of material can cause the kids up the road to land so gently and propel them so high. Last but not least I like parachutes. I like the way such a light pack can open in to a wonderful dome and prevent a human being from smashing into the ground.
I like all these things and I like goats. They see things statisticians don't.
Does anyone else think that the best threads are the ones with Cristopher "Controversy" Leigh on them? Pure entertaiment, keep it up!
As for barefooting, forget trying to convince people with all the [good] evidence that is out there. I've got no time to convince doubters, it works for me, if you don't want to do it stick with what works for you.
Personally I'm stronger as a result of building up to 10 miles of consistant barefoot or VFF training per week for the last 5 months. If you don't want to do it stick to running in shoes - totally up to the individual. I want to run all of my life and I see barefooting as a way for my body to deal with the stress of regular trainning so that when i'm in my 70's I'm still going to be able to get out and enjoy the hills :D
So I'll see for myself if I remain injury free, or if I'm just totally deluded, that's my desicision and one that I'm going to stick with.
30,000 plus runners ,compete in the London marathon and indeed big marathons around the world.
All or nearly all wear modern running shoes.
How many do you think would manage it barefoot ?
Wake up,we are not designed to run on hard tarmac roads without a little help from air eva gel etc etc .
Yes, but how many get injured in the build-up or on race day? See reference to previous study on injury incidence and contributing factors. No-one is saying that everyone should run barefoot, just that we don't need the cushioning/support that the running shoe industry has brainwashed us into thinking we do.
We are not "designed" to do anything but we have evolved a very effective shock absorption system that only works optimally if the foot is able to flex freely and interact with, and adapt to, the ground. We also evolved to run on hard baked savannah which is equally as unforgiving as tarmac.
OK - so how many of the posters on this thread have actually tried running barefoot on a range of surfaces?!!?!?
I have and found it suprisingly easy, especially on tramac!!
So before arguing about cushioning, gels, air etc get out there and give it a go, otherwise you are not adding any weight to the argument if you haven't actually tried it!
It's like my 3 year old telling me he doesn't like broccoli when he's never tasted it!
Why would they lose their time trying it? And when I write trying it I ain't meaning doing it unwisely and overdoing it!
CL keeps pretending there is no studies. I asked him what was Dr. Daniel Lieberman doing? Dr. Daniel Lieberman has published some things and is doing more research on a longer term basis which means it will give CL plenty of time to keep writing "Show the research!"...:rolleyes:
We are not "designed" to do anything
I didnt think on this topic we were going to "split hairs " ,if you want to discuss
Evolution, by all means go ahead I have a library full of Dawkins ,Ridley Pinkler Jones and the great man himself so Please try not to be to clever.
As for contributing to the topic without "trying it myself" ,do I need to hit my thumb with a hammer to see if it will hurt ?
If your running injury free in your thick cushioned, reinforced, heavily posted shoes carry on.
But for those people who have been injured, bought orthotics, seen numerous specialist and been told by their doctor to stop running then maybe trying barefoot may actually help.
As I have said I was very sceptical and when I first tried at my local park I was hobbling around tip toeing and wincing at every little stone.
I jogged a short distance but one thing I did notice was that I wasn't feeling any knee pain.
The next day I could feel my calfs when I woke and walked around but it wasn't painful.
I'm now running near enough every day for a few miles barefoot( well to be honest I do have a new test shoe that offers some protection but no EVA, upper or support)
Barefooting works for me, I would suggest people at least give it a try before just writing it off.
Fine, if you want to live you life based on what other people say or write without giving something a go yourself thats fine by me:D:D
Personally I was quite intrigued when I first heard about barefoot running and thought why not, I'm not advocating doing it all of the time but is worth giving it a go. Especially if you try it on a grassy field - you feel like a 5 year old kid again!
Okay, enough's enough. Let's get rid of 2 of the most stupid "against barefoot running" arguments:
1: Tarmac (we're not supposed to run on it)
Have you tried running bf on it? It's actually pretty smooth and comfortable. Yes it's hard, but your body finds a way of dealing with it and running efficently. Now take off-road. Yes there's less impact, but it's a lot more technical and there's loads of thorns ad pointy stones and rocks etc, so if anything it's harder to run bf on but no one argues againts running bf off-road?
2: Broken glass!
Who out there wearing top of the range super-cushioned pronation control bollocksie shoes, goes for a run, see's some broken glass in front of them and thinks "Hey, I've got shoes on, I'll run straight over it"? You don't! You avoid it, just like you would bf!
Sorry wasn't trying to be clever just, because of what I studied, evolution is one of my pet topics and I can be a bit pedantic about it.
I've done a lot of research into this area recently for an article I'm writing and have spoken to an awful lot of people who have been able to return to running after trying every shoe, orthotic etc under the sun to solve conditions such as PF before trying barefoot/minimal footwear as a last resort and it working.
I can understand people being skeptical as we've had 40 years of the running shoe industry/podiatrists telling us we need X, Y and Z to "cure" our faulty foot-strike and the more cushioning/more support school of thought does seem intuitive until you take a step back and think about our anatomy and evolutionary past. Then it becomes blatantly clear that we've created a problem by trying to solve one that doesn't exist.
Haha...dog poo is easier to clean of your feet :-)
I wrote a little bit about barefooting here. Not because I wanted to convince anyone that running barefoot is better, but because I think it helps to share our experiences. We can all find research -- in this day and age -- to prove and disprove almost anything, and the water gets muddier and muddier. Talking to people with similar problems, and hearing what has worked for them helps to clear that water just a little; it's more relevant.
Whilst there is no panacea for running injuries, there does seem to be a significant number of people who have tried running without shoes and found it helps (me included). I'm no super-efficient natural, 'neutral' runner; indeed, for years, I was of the firm view that orthotics were the only way forward for me. But, 6 weeks in, running a few miles a week barefoot is doing me much more good than harm. Early days, yes, but it's fun, encouraging, and providing a new dimension to my running that I'd never have dreamt existed.
Inov-8 Insider
To return to your comment about a new shoe from Inov-8 are you able to give any further information ie. date of release, what the shoe will be like etc?
Also given that the X Talon is pretty much a 'minimal' shoe in what way will the new shoe be different?
I'm hoping it will be like my aqua shoes - very light, very flexible, very cheap (!) - but more durable and with an extremely grippy sole. I ran in my aqua shoes last night across rocks, gravel, through mud etc and my only wish was that the sole was grippy otherwise they are brilliant for running.
I cant give too much away at the moment but we are working on a few projects.
If your looking for a very lightweight, minimal amount of cushion/ underfoot protection, tight fit, studded sole.......were on with it:)
If your looking for the ultimate barefoot experience but with some protection for your feet..........were on with it :D
If your wanting a minimal road shoe that enables you to run naturally....were on with it :eek:
If you want to know why we believe in natural running then read the book
Born to Run
Was looking for a cheap pair of inov8s and look what I stumble across
http://shop.beyondextreme.co.uk/prod...pg&w=280&h=167
F-lite 220 Guess these are the minimal running shoes? X-talon top and a parkour type seethrough sole?
http://shop.beyondextreme.co.uk/prod...pg&w=280&h=214
x-talon boot????
http://shop.beyondextreme.co.uk
For your chance to win one of our minimalist shoes the F-Lite 230
Enter the competition on our home page
Good luck:D
I want those. But for folk with wide feet please. Your Performance Last shoes just laugh at me :)
I just have :)Quote: