Inov 8 will be onto that.
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Inov 8 will be onto that.
Recently got some vff kso's, done a couple of runs in em and i have to say they make me want to run more. i have noticed several things though.....
1: my calfs are soooo tight the day after (you run more like a ballet dancer)
2: got a bit carried away the other day, put 6 miles offroad in em and now ive got some great bruises on the soles of my feet.
3: other than my breathing which sounds like a steam train, your foot fall is very quiet, so the trails are alot quieter:D
4: socks are a good idea (injinji)
i have been struggling for most of the year with calf (soleus) injury problems, i have changed my running style a fair bit and with the help of these hopefully i'll be back racing again soon:thumbup:
How does anyone know for sure that our ancestors suffered less running related injuries than modern humans? They didn't live as long, their running patterns (chasing animals) would have been different and no-one was gathering stats?
Have you seen these images: http://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/perm...ry/humans3.php ?Quote:
Originally Posted by wormstone
They have been used to suggest that early hominids played and mimiced each other (much as we do today). But some new research has shown it could be an early example of plyometric striding, with the adult being the coach. The same research has suggested that cave paintings interpreted as men running after deer-like animals were actually renderings of early fell races, with the deer added to give some interest to the piece. Researchers are currently trying to work out whether the small indentations and lines were some form of results table (presumably a local championship series). The absence of any physiotherapy-related cave art gives credibility to the argument that barefoot runners generally didn't get injured.
I'm submitting this thesis next week. Any feedback from trained anthropologists would be most welcome. I wouldn't want to look stupid.
On the penultimate day of my GR10 walk, there was a young bloke who came past me walking in the opposite direction with full pack - walking barefoot!
How many people run barefoot?
None! Are you nuts? :p
Seriously though, I've found that having a thin sole shoe (like a fell shoe) is quite enough in terms of cushioning and use them on roads as well.
To my mind the action of running over rough terrain "loosens up" all the bones, tendons etc in my feet nicely. Consequently my feet feel fine after a 10 mile hill run but not so fine after 10 miles on roads where the stresses and strains are more repetitive.
Wouldn't natural selection make it so.Quote:
Originally Posted by wormstone
Get injured - starve
natural selection evolves an anatomy and technique that does not result in injury.
I did a barefoot warm down session after Bradwell last week and it was great. Running on soft well maintained grass feels lovely, and my legs felt very fresh the next day. I'm yet to try anything more unpredictable in terms of terrain, and I'm doubting I will. Grass carpets only please...
Hi all,
I'm 6'4" and weigh 15.5 stone, just getting back into running after an 11yr absence, had problems with my calves and ankles but on the mend now, would barefoot help or hinder do you think?
cheers
Back on the forum briefly, we're a month into our French adventure internet is scarce but I just had to leave a comment on this thread. Personally I don't care if anyone else wants to run barefoot, or doesn't understand it, or will stick to shoes. It works for me as part of my training, either completely barefoot or with VFF. If you want to stick with big ol' comfy shoes more power to you.
If you want to develop strong feet, improve your posture, learn to run softly etc etc then go for it. Why should this even be a debate? Either get on with it or not.
Pretty much exactly my take on barefoot running, except I often do a couple of laps of the local football pitch barefoot the morning after a race. I do tend to walk about barefooted most of the time though, and wear "barefoot" shoes as much as possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by simgreen78
Whilst I can see it's possible we are evolved to run barefooted on soft ground, the idea of running barefoot on tarmac does not appeal.
Running barefoot on Tarmac is I find a really enjoyable sensation. I have built up to the point where I am now doing a couple of 3k runs a week on tarmac without shoes and I really enjoy them. Give it a go, you might surprise yourself! Just take it easy in terms of speed and distance or you may find yourself without much skin left on your feet!
Now I have joined the ranks of the shod with a pair of f lite 195s, do I need to change my vote in the poll or do they count as minimal footwear? I would say they provide no more support than VFF Dlow Treks.
James
Sun baked savannah is hardly softQuote:
Originally Posted by Beowulf
I'd choose hard dirt over concrete every time. If any material engineers can put some figures on the hardness of hard dirt vs concrete I'm willing to be educated.Quote:
Originally Posted by nikalas
I don't think the issue is hardness, if you are using your knees to absorb the inpact and are running with good form and a good footstrike then how hard the surface is does not matter. It is the texture of the surface that is important. New smooth tarmac and concrete are really easy to run on and you can get away with a bit more spped and a bit less form. Old worn tarmac with sharp stones sticking out of it is the most chalenging surface I have found so far. Your form has to be just so or you get bad blisters where your foot strikes and lifts off. I have still not summoned enough courage to try any rocky off road terrain yet.
James
Most challenging for me is old asphalt/tarmac country lanes with dirt, debris and old pebbles loose on the surface. This is where I tend to get sore feet or stone bruises. Dirt and trails are fine unless extremely gravelly, Tarmac and concrete ditto.
Hey Rob, You are making the trails sound like I should bite the bullet and just run one!
James
has anyone crocked themself doing this? Having always been a heavy heel striker (and 6'5" 90Kg) I started with deliberate forefoot running maybe 3 months ago (with a vague thought of going on to barefoot) mainly during intervals and shortish tempo runs. The change felt great in many ways and clearly improved my running style to external observers, quickly became natural and had a marked effect in speeding up my descending as I learned to land forefoot first and reduce contact time. Unfortunately I have developed an injury to the medial ligaments of my ankle making any dorsiflexion painful even on normal daily activity and I'm barely able to train. It's difficult to unlearn the new more natural feeling gait and I'm hoping my physio's sorting me out so i can continue to progress....but it's a right pain in the arse at the moment. Any other similar experiences? How did you get on?
cheers P
I tried for the first time after reading this thread about 3 weeks ago, nothing fancy, few strides on a grassy field. My calves went straight away and I had to hobble home with my tail between my legs! Love the idea behind it an have always been an advocate of travel light travel fast, just wonder if its not meant for guys our size?!Quote:
Originally Posted by paulo
Yep Paulo, same for me. Slight pain on medial ankle but I suspect it's the insertion of the post tibial tendon for me. I'm currently in trail/fell shoes to rest it a while and see if it goes away. Physio also said medial ankle ligaments but I don't believe him tbh
Hi Glenners
I don't think size should be an issue, I am 6'4 and was 16 stone, now 13 1/2!:D. I think the main issue is taking it easy. I am probably in an easier place than most of you guys on that front as I have been unable to run for 20 years, which makes not overdoing it much easier! Also having not been able to run for so long I really don't want to ruin what I now have. I have now been running since Feb and am running 3k 3 times a week on tarmac and 6 k twicw a week on trails in a peir of flite 195s. I have done a couple of longer runs, but always end up hobbling around for a few days with stuipidly tight calves! Next week I am going to up the mileage to 4k road and 10k trail.
This site: http://therunningbarefoot.com/ has some good advice on starting off. They suggest starting out on rough nasty surfaces as it is harder to overdo it when your feet hurt!
Stick with it, I think it is ace!
James
an under 9 ran the Hebden race yesterday barefoot.
There is a guy over here in the Pyrenees that does all the mountain races barefoot, he looks about 6 foot and 11 stone. He also wears a headband so I think he is some kind of kung fu master. The races over here are certainly as rough if not rougher than British races.
Debbie
www.pyrenees-haven.com
Grasshopper :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrenees Haven
How many barefoot runners does it take to change a lightbulb?
Three.
One to change the lightbulb, another to call the ambulance when his mate falls off the chair, and another to tell the ambulance driver his shoes are no good.
Am I missing something here?
Are people actually running and racing barefoot like Zola, or like I do on the beach (no shoes or socks or any kind of footwear)whenever I get the chance?
Or are they just pretending to run barefoot but wearing shoes claiming to be the same as skin? :o
Bit of both, Stef, although I restrict my 'bare' barefoot to roads and trails and haven't had the guts to do it on fell. I haven't even worn my vibrams on fell but I have met a few who have in races and they say the grip downhill is as good as studs because the foot is able to react naturally. I've always thought though that the transition was from shoes to minimalist to vibrams to barefoot but have just bought Ken Bob Saxtons book and he says go barefoot straight away to get the feet acclimatised and then later progress to wearing something like a vibram. Mind you, I may have to go barefoot on the fells soon, anyway, as one of my Inov8s is still lying in that beck on the parachute descent!
Emile Zola? The celebrated literary champion of Captain Dreyfus? Was he a runner then?
Émile François Zola (French pronunciation: [e.mil zɔ.la]; 2 April 1840 – 29 September 1902) was a French writer, the most important exemplar of the literary school of naturalism and an important contributor to the development of bare foot running.Quote:
Originally Posted by Margarine
I'm guessing Budd. And yes I have raced barefoot on fells.Quote:
Originally Posted by Margarine
Run on a pristine 5 mile beach barefoot once a week. Couldn't tell if it helps my running but it's bloody lovely!
Interesting that some are having trouble with there calf muscles, I wonder if it would be possible to figure out whats causing this. Folks just running on there forefoot seems a bit too simplistic, although maybe the reason I haven't experienced this is because beaches a flat and soft. Maybe I run more on my forefoot than I realise! No fancy shoes though.
Personallly, from painful experiential learning (first barefoot run I did was 7 miles and my calves seized up after 5 miles and ended up walking the last (road) hill home) I think it's because a) people start landing on the forefoot but don't shorten their stride and increase cadence thereby putting added strain on the calves and b) don't learn to land lightly by pulling up the foot before it lands on the ground (thereby turning what would have been a 'footstrike' into a 'foot landing'. I'm still learning after two years but these are two things I wish I'd better understood at the start.
That makes sense to me.
I tend to run with a short stride/high cadence even when shod and try and run 'lightly'. Mainly trying to save my knees for later years. So guess that may explain why I was fine running 10 miles on my first barefoot run.
I would like to get more into the 'minimalist' approach to running, but a couple of things puzzle me a bit; How do people avoid those inevitable stubbed toes when out on the hills, and how does the grip of a shoe like say, the Merrell trail glove, hold up to fell running?
I have an old pair of water shoes which are pretty minimal and went for a run of about 3 1/2 miles on the moor the other day, and I must admit they felt good (apart from the toe stubbing!) but there wasn't much elevation involved, and the peaty tracks at the time were soft and springy...
winter bog would probably be a far different proposition, and going downhill on wet grass requires some studs, surely?
I'm more than a bit cynical about all this barefoot running, especially when barefoot running in fact means wearing running foot glove whatchamecallits and therefore isn't barefoot at all. And its no coincidence to me that the only person I saw limping out of 200 hundred odd runners at the end of the Burn Valley half marathon at the weekend was a runner wearing one of those footglove thingies and carrying the other with an obviously sore foot.
I love running barefoot on sandy beaches or in sandy sea and could even envisage running barefoot on well cut grass in parks but running on roads or in the fells is just stupid. My salomons, bought from new at the beginning of the year and used for running in the hills and non-roads for virtually all of that time, are now completely shredded. Thats not just the bottoms but the uppers too and along the way they have protected me from all sorts of rocks, sharp stones, barbed wire, twigs, heather and other assorted 'terrain' in a way that wearing nothing on my feet wouldn't have.
And another thing, viewed purely from a style point of view, those foot gloves with toes will give anybody an immediate -10 to their street cred rating :)
Forces are transfered from the knee to the ankle when people barefoot run. This leads to massive problems for the calf and achilies for all but those that sensibly progress to zero differential or are lucky in their mechanics. Its a fad that has been and gone many a time.Quote:
Originally Posted by shaunaneto
I disagree, you need to load up the foot to take full advantage of the spring you get from the foots arch and the achilles tendon. If you claves cannot take it you have progressed too quickly or have not developed a style to accommodate these forces.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nigel
Stolly I have had it out with this lot before about this. All got back was a one dimensional argument and a link to hundreds of biomechanical studies on the subject. I read them all and did not change my viewpoint at all. You see none of these studies showed a significant reduction in injury prevelance or a performance increase.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stolly
These barefoot thingys and barefoot running got quite a plug on Look North tonight with presenter visiting accelerate shop then going for a trot with 2 runners thru' some woods [nowt on yer feet , why would you] last time i bought some shoes from afore mentioned shop they never told me i could run barefoot if i wanted ,what have i been missing out on, i suppose it was nice to see Look North pluggin somat else other than Harry Gration's beloved Scarboro' or the only famous yorkshireman Dicky Bird [theres other plces/people in Yorkshire ffs] i know going of subject but they dont half wind me up