lateral ankle sprain (CF?)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cotswoldrunner

I turned my ankle quite badly 3 weeks ago whilst running downhill and it still hurts now. Just wondering if anyone has any useful advice for me - I'm a bit new to running injuries. Basically, i can roll my left foot inwards ok but when I turn it outwards I'm in agony.

---

I did the same on Saturday my last training run on the mountain before snwodon this saturday, a steady jog on the way down and my left ankle went. It hurts as you toucj the bones, Ican move inwards and outwards, bruise it out, a little swelling. I have applied ice and strapping and rest. Havent been running since saturday.

Just wondering if anyone has any useful advice for me - Would i be ok to run Saturday, and also is there a specific way of strapping the ankle with tape, 'phiten tape', or any otehr tape on themarket that would do the job for the 1hr 45min run up and down - Thanks

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CREAD

Just wondering if anyone has any useful advice for me - Would i be ok to run Saturday, and also is there a specific way of strapping the ankle with tape, 'phiten tape', or any otehr tape on themarket that would do the job for the 1hr 45min run up and down - Thanks

---

Think only you know if its okay to run on. Risk and reward. Is the risk worth the reward of doing the race?

If you want to tape it I use this method and use leuko tape. Probably not quite as much tape as that but I use the 3 stirrups and the figure of 8s with the locking straps (I personally don't bother with the figure of 6). It holds quite firm and it was how I was taught when playing basketball in my youth. Have a practise before you race. If you do it wrong it may not offer full support and could give you blisters where skin rubs.

If you do it right it offers great support but you could still twist your ankle as it is not 100% safe.

Good luck whatever you decide to do.

Thank you very much for the advice
cheers

brufen, lots of zinc oxide tape and run on the bugger. If you can do a days work on it, you can run on the hills! A good dose of Joss works for me.

What sheep sh...


























earing?

The day after the Loch Ness marathon, (5th Oct) whilst out walking the dog, I developed pain in my left ankle and in the course of about 200 yards, it went from mild niggle to bonecrunchingly painful.

Putting weight on my foot produced pain just below and deep to my medial malleolus (knobbly bone on the inside of your ankle) but lifting weight off of my foot produced and excruciating stab of pain that was much worse. I eventually managed to hobble back to the car but it took an age.

Oddly, the pain started to settle quickly and by the next day, there was hardy a niggle. Two days later I did and easy run with no problems and a week later even did some hill repeats with my club with no problems.

Yesterday, I did a 15 mile run in my trail shoes, on road (not my best idea) and the pain recurred after my run. Again, really really painful when I lifted my weight off of my foot and the sort of bony pain you think of when you've broken something. By evening however, it had mostly faded away.

Now, it hurts to turn my foot inwards or outwards but walking seems fine.

There's very little swelling, no bruising and no tender spots.

Anyone ever had anything like this? ???

I have one of those It’s called a stress fracture.
Either no running and 4-8 weeks to sort out
Or run with well cushioned road shoes and I am still waiting for it after 10 weeks but its 90% pain free.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rob

I have one of those It’s called a stress fracture.
Either no running and 4-8 weeks to sort out
Or run with well cushioned road shoes and I am still waiting for it after 10 weeks but its 90% pain free.

---

That had crossed my mind but I'm trying hard to put it out. :D It's been odd the way the pain has waxed and waned but it's lingering in the background all the time now. I'm certainly not going to do any more running on tarmac and will keep off the running for a week or two.

I know I should probably go see someone but I've found physios generally only tell you what you know already or tell you to stop running. :eek:

Thats what I have done plenty of grassy runs.

Hmm

I had something that sounds very similar. It came on immediately after a half marathon a year ago. ( a very soggy largely off road one)
I too thought "stress fracture?!" but didn't want to and I continued to train (occasional recurrances) and ran my marathon.

now it has gone away (touch wood), can't remember when it was last a bother.
Not sure mine ever lingered for an extended time though.

Note this does not constitute advice, sensible or otherwise.

I seem prone to going over badly on my left ankle during descents. Sure it's just a matter of time before I sprain it badly or break it.

I can see it will drain all my confidence in descending fast.

Although it seems to happen when I'm planting the foot harder to slow up a bit, which made me think it might not happen so much if I just loosen up and go fast. Easier said than done though if your ankle's throbbing from a turn already.

Can anyone suggest why it might be or what I might do to prevent it?

try tape! might be the answer and there been threads on here about strapping up ankles.

I'm very prone to spraining my ankle after a bad fall a few years ago (canoeing accident.... go figure). As a relative beginner you will go over on your ankle a lot, but the more you run in the hills, the more flexibility and strength you aquire. Oddly the mind and body look after themselves, so running down the hill with gay abandon is the way forward (apparently). The more you think about it, the more you're interfering with your natural flow, and the more stilted and injury prone your running becomes.

Try using a wobble board or start by standing on one leg (knee slightly bent) with your eyes closed and then swap legs after a minute. You will feel all the tendons around the ankle moving as you balance. This should act to strengthen up the area as well as training the neurons in the brain to adapt quicker to sudden movement changes.

thanks all - much appreciated.

It's difficult to experiment and practise cos I don't live near any fells.

I'm thinking too the sport supports you can get in Boots will probably not do much good - and will probably get rid of a fair bit of skin too.

Just running off road will help. The key to it all is improving proprioception (the ability of the ankle to know where it is, and adjust automatically). Taping up your ankle may help this and may improve your confidence. Wobble boards, or Fleeter's trick of standing on one leg on a rolled up towel certainly helps, but I still think the surest and best way is to get out and run on uneven surfaces.

Definitely. Run on odd surfaces.

ive heard people say that taping and straping and supports weaken the ankles and your ankles become dependent upon the support or strap so that when maybe you come to take the strap off your ankles would be even weaker there are various ankle strenghting exersices you can do which may help or if your running in a pure fell shoe walsh,inov-8 mudclaws id try changing your shoe to a good trail shoe an inov-8 roclite or a wave harrier or solomon are supposed to give support but ... in the spring fellrunner magazine(on the back page) ive sin some walsh pb trainer/boots which have a higher cut ankle with a strap on for support same grip as the walsh these may be what you need :D

I would also recommend getting a wobble cushion. If you google it, they cost about £20, and are rather like a partly deflated football. They are unstable to stand on and you can build your ankle muscle quite well with one.

thanks again

Scott, I was in Terrocs, which seem to have a bit more support than most (although they're the only Inov8s I've worn, so I wouldn't really know)

not great grip though on some surfaces - but I know they're a compromise, traily shoe, so I expected that

I think, as a poster has said, once you've gone over once, it's likely to happen again in the immediate aftermath and for days afterwards as the sprain has weakened the ankle - so I probably shouldn't have gone up Skiddaw a few days after turning it

think I'll try the wobble board as well as trying to do as much trail running as possble

after it happened for the third time on way down Skiddaw, I was planting my left foot splayed outwards like charlie chaplin to stop it happening again

that makes for a distinctive running style

I have also had a number of problems with rolling my ankles (having ankles like twiglets doesn’t help:D).

This would nearly always occur when descending over rough ground. I’m convinced now that this was down to two things:
Wearing trail shoes for comfort over fell shoes and heel striking due to holding back when descending.

I have found that wearing fell shoes with a thin, flat sole so the heel is as low to the ground as possible gives a better feel and allows the feet to respond quicker. I wonder if this is akin to Pudgy's comment:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pudgy

Just running off road will help. The key to it all is improving proprioception (the ability of the ankle to know where it is, and adjust automatically).

---

I also now try (whenever possible) to lean forward a bit and concentrate on landing on the ball of my foot rather than the heel when descending (unless on scree) and only ever wear trail shoes when there is little or no steep descent involved, and never on rough trackless moorland.

This is just my perception but it seems to me that the more you try to protect and support the ankles the more likely you are to damage them.

I went over on my ankle twice at Kinder Trog and again last week. Should I see a physio and can they actually do anything to help or should I just take it easy and be careful?

Shoes make a difference - lower profile out-and-out fell shoes will help, but you may have to watch other injuries coming on if you do a high mileage in them.

The real trick, as other posters have said, is to strengthen your ankles!

Exercises such as using a wobble board; standing on the injured leg and writing the alphabet in big letters in the air with the other one; playing catch on one leg; running backwards in a tight figure of 8 round cones; walking slowly and deliberately heel-and-toe down a straight line; etc etc will all help. Basically anything that works the ankle will strengthen it and improve proprioception.

I used to suffer from this problem chronically, but since I moved up to cumbria 4 years ago and started to run more consistently on rougher, steeper ground the problem disappeared.

A few weeks agon I went over on my ankle and keep doing it. Yesterday was really painful!

SO would going to a physio be of any benefit, or just a waste of money, or should I just keep going and hope my ankle strengthens up again?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by novice

A few weeks agon I went over on my ankle and keep doing it. Yesterday was really painful!

SO would going to a physio be of any benefit, or just a waste of money, or should I just keep going and hope my ankle strengthens up again?

---

Novice I would say go see a physio ASAP.
You have tried for a few weeks to sort it but it has not worked.
The physio won't cure it but you will get excellent advice on the correct strengthen procedures and if you ask the question, the correct way to tape it prior to a run.
Oh
And you might not like the bit when they say rest.

I go every time something like this occurs.

PS
It was my Physio that got me refered at the hospital for an MRI scan after being wrongly diagnosed with a knee problem. (now on waiting list for opp)

Hope this helps

Stagger

Have a look at wobble boards on ebay.
Ask the physio if they would help in your rehab.
The more you ask the more you will learn for the future.

Thanks for the advice, have booked an appointment

Novice, I think the problem is that once you've gone over on an ankle badly, it weakens it and it's more likely to occur again in the following days. To which I suppose a week or so's rest is the only answer.

but I think this really is something that does strengthen with more time running on uneven ground - it still happens to me but less frequently.

I tore some ligaments in my ankle at Tegg's Nose a couple of weeks ago and was asking the physios at work about it. The consensus seemed to be rest for a week to ten days with NO running; gently reintroduce running but not on unpredictable surfaces and see how it goes; once you have done it, it is likely to be the same one again and again... my left ankle is ALWAYS the one and has been that way for a couple of years.

When it comes to strengthening, standing on one foot is meant to help with the strength, but more importantly the co-ordination... they recommended it with your eyes shut, but I fall over... it's hard enough with my eyes open.

Good luck with it.

Yeah, I struggle with the eyes closed thing as well (but seeing me dance tells you all you need to know about my coordination). Try standing on one leg on a rolled up towel, works for me.

Don't quite know how you mean. Standing with the rolled up towel under the arch of your foot or going lengthways?:confused:

I am prone to ankle problems too so I tape them BUT only for races. To help strengthen them I never tape them for training runs. The exercises mentioned do work and are particularly useful after the intitial recovery stage following an injury. Yes, do buy a wobble board and use it regularly. Standing on one leg while throwing a tennis ball repeatedly against a wall helps 'teach' your ankle to work for itself.
Hope this helps.
PS get someone reliable to show you how to tape your ankle properly!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pudgy

Just running off road will help. The key to it all is improving proprioception (the ability of the ankle to know where it is, and adjust automatically). Taping up your ankle may help this and may improve your confidence. Wobble boards, or Fleeter's trick of standing on one leg on a rolled up towel certainly helps, but I still think the surest and best way is to get out and run on uneven surfaces.

---

stand on little plastic hedgehog things are a great training tool, for nasty ankle injurys!

also use of a good debt collecter(pysio!) helps it to heal a lot quick, torn 2 ligaments this time, running again.. 3 weeks after injury! not allowed to go on fells for 3-4 weeks :mad: bah humblug

lego pieces strewn around the floor, then walk randomly round the room in the dark, similar training!

I agree with the problems 'trail' shoes can cause, being not so 'low profile' as out and out fell shoes. Since I've worn my Salomon speedcross(which are as comfy as anything by the way) I've been prone to spraining my ankles. I think it must be down to being more used to training in Inov8 fell shoes or adidas swoops, which are both 'lower profile'. It all came to a head last weekend, when a break in concentration to just greet a walker 'good morning' whilst running down the wrekin, resulted in disaster! Yes, I actually managed to sprain both ankles(one straight after the other!!) The left one was already pretty swollen from previous recent sprains, so as I leapt in agony as that one cracked over, I then managed to land on the other awkwardly, and now both resemble multi coloured 'elephant' ankles!! Ah, the joys of fell running ha ha!

Any 'special' advice?
About a month ago I had slightly sprained ankle. Not the usual where the foot roll stretches the outside of the ankle, but the other direction.
Thought it had healed, but during a half marathon, last weekend, I realised it hadn't.

Now got it heavily strapped up as although its weight bearing it is unstable. Proprioception is obviously shot.

Using icepacks. I can't rest it as I'm doing 10 hour shifts, on my feet.

Any tips to sensibly reduce recovery time?

Time i am afraid, heat to increase the blood flow, rest and time sorry.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Amex

Time i am afraid, heat to increase the blood flow, rest and time sorry.

---

Yeah, guess I know it :( Had a bad couple of months about this time last year - just after I started, with spraining my ankles about 3 times.

Just a vain hope that fell runners might have some magic cure or tips, due to the increased risk (?) to the ankle from the terrain.

Well, the Bolsover 10k is out for next weekend :rolleyes: might have to think about dragging out the wobble board and oiling up the bike. No exercising the leg for a week more tho' :(

Good news.
Been told its not the ankle proper, so no damaged tendons/ligaments.
Apparantly muscle damage, on the outside of the lower leg, just above the ankle. Should heal quicker. :)