I should really look into hydrating properly for races. John I take it you just start drinking pleanty of water a few days before?
Is cramp directly related, I always thought it was to do with salts.
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I should really look into hydrating properly for races. John I take it you just start drinking pleanty of water a few days before?
Is cramp directly related, I always thought it was to do with salts.
Yep hydration for me is not about just water i also drink use an energy drink in the run up to races which also keep the electrolyte balance somewhere near where they should be (read electrolyte as salts) and yes cramp and diminished electrolytes are directly related.
So by balancing out your hydration prior to an event and maintaining it during the event then the equilibrium should be maintained.
Another important factor with hydration is alcohol i.e. best to abstain prior to an event for at least 7-10 days (guess it depends what is most important to you )
Probably a load of Twaddle but it works for me, For example even during an after the WHW race cramp was not a problem.:)
A typo, surely? Don't you mean 7-10 hours????Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnK
If not, I think I'm beginning to see where I'm going wrong......
Sorry no Typo but the catching up after the event is good unless you are racing again the next weekend;)
Think I might take up darts.
Thanks for that John, yes beer is a bit of a problem. I do tend to like a pint on a saturday and like you say its good in the evening following a tough race.
Perhaps a big problem for me is not drinking enough water during the week, I'm defo a tea man. Perhaps I'll swap it and get loaded on water.
I do tend to drink well during races, I mix half a lucozade with half a water and a bit of salt, I started doing that after my 1st 3 peaks.
Cramp usually strikes me after about 3 hours running and a definate change in surface ie straight off the hill and onto a longish road run to the finish, Kentmere got me this year but I was only just back running.
I'll bear that in mind cheers
Jamie
long runs:eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by emmilou
if it happens at rotherham im not carrying ya
for Leeds Rhino.
I've been adding salt to my sports drink for a couple of years and rarely suffer cramps.
I add a 1/4 tea spoon to 1 litre of mix. It's an aquired taste:rolleyes: but works.
P.S. I use SIS Orange carbohydrate powder at 15% concentration.
Having suffered a fair bit from cramp on longer races, I've started using Maximuscle Viper which seems to be well stocked with electrolytes. Since then I've had no problems at all. As it can be used before, during or after exercise I'm still experimenting with how it works best for me. However, drinking it late on in a race (eg after 18 miles of a 23 miler) really seems to prevent cramp in the last few miles and assists rapid recovery.
On the other hand, it could be that I was previously more susceptible to cramp because of injuries I was carrying - niggling calf tears - and the diappearance of cramp might partly be down to the fact that I'm (temporarily) injury-free, and not be completely down to the effect of the fluid.
Reading this thread, I'm now inclined to think that injury, unfitness, and dehydration/electrolyte loss are all factors, but that the latter has the quickest fix.
I'll give the extra salt a go then.
Cheers
Quinnine (if thats how it is spelt) it is found in Tonic Water (missing out the gin of course) hope this helps...Charlie
On longer races, I add salt to my drinks and also carry salted peanuts just in case it strikes. Just need a good stock of sugar and salt I've found and you should have few problems. :eek:
I agree with the comments about Three Peaks - I always get cramp as I reach the top of Whernside. It has happened at the same stage of the race for the last three years and I have therefore decided not to do next years race because of it.
Generally speaking the only time I get cramp is in my calves at the top of a tough climb. It happened to me this year at Tour of Pendle. I overtook quite a number going up the second to last climb and was feeling strong. As soon as I reached the top cramp kicked in and I had to severely reduce my pace for the remainder of the race, which cost me about 5 minutes.
I suffered badly with cramp doing this years Tanky's Trog. Salt didn't help at all nor did drinking tonic water (which contains lots of quinine) for two weeks prior to the race. I also took some slow sodium tablets every day for the week prior to the race.
In my particular case I attribute the onset of cramp to three factors: (1) dropping my weekly mileage from 40 miles to 20 miles, (2) running training runs too slow in comparison to races (my legs aren't properly conditioned) and (3) exposure of my calves to cold, especially wet and windy weather.
And wallowing about in bottomless bogs:D .
It might be you next year!
It would serve him right;) .
None of yers av ad it bad enough!
Suggestion! - Run like ell, to the first 3 peaks ladder stile and if yer dont get it then, then yer will at next un. Total agony, but yerl be better fer it!
had same type of remedy fer pneumonia (just before wasdale pb) never ad that again.
i was using lo salt, and was murdered with cramp on sedburgh hills and the langdale horseshoe (nearly cried up blisco). so now ive changed back to proper salt in the run up to a long race. I always look for an isotonic stream to drink out off as well.
The first time I ran the 'Peaks' was in 1956 when it started from the Hill Inn at Chapel-le-Dale. I cramped up solid coming off Whernside. Surprisingly (because I was really only a walker at that time) there was a runner behind me. He spotted what was wrong and said "Get some salt down yer". I replied "I haven't got any salt". "Yes you 'ave, lick your arms, your legs, or whatever" he said. So I licked my arms and, sure enough, they tasted of salt! Miraculously I was able to carry on to the finish without any further problem.
Cheers!
Great tip. Whenever I've run that race its been real hot for the time of year and I've built up salt deposits behind my ears and on my eyebrows. This year just give me a shout if anyone (preferably female) wants a lick ;)
Salt and cramp, I suspect thats a myth, however I'll back my suspicion up with some decent evidence:
Serum electrolyte concentrations and hydration status are not associated with exercise associated muscle cramping (EAMC) in distance runners
M P Schwellnus1, J Nicol1, R Laubscher2, T D Noakes3 Br J Sports Med 2004;38:488-492
Interesting to note that hydration and cramp is probably also twaddle.
Also ingesting salt, licking your arms etc is probably twaddle:
Sodium ingestion and the prevention of hyponatraemia during exercise
Br J Sports Med 2004; 38: 790-792. doi:10.1136/bjsm.2004.014191
Fascinating to note that this paper showed that sodium levels dropped even when replacing fluid with a sodium containing drink going flat out against a lot of current advice, ie overhydration with any fluid is not necessarily a good thing.
I get cramp sometimes when I'm knackered. I reckon its more a question of fitness and conditioning than anything else.
Not sure if its correct to link salt/hydration levels with causing cramp - these will also happen when you've oushed the body hard. I'm sure that you could check the levels of all three peaks finishers (esp on a hot day) and they'd all be low. But not everyone would have cramp.
The first study above did check sodium levels after a tougher challenge than the Peaks, sodium or "salt" levels were not significantly low in any of the athletes and not significantly lower in the group who had cramped. The main cause of low sodium levels appears to be over-hydration (water or electrolyte drinks), not sweating.
I agree with you, the evidence suggests that cramp is a fatigue phenomenon alone.
I was told recently by a fellow fell runner (a reliable source i know :p ) that taking Cod Liver oil can help with cramp as it aids the mucles in the absorbsion and transportation of Lactic Acid. It is ofcourse a build up of Lactic acid in the muscles which causes cramp. I was under the impression that this build up of lactic acid came from the increase in anaerobic respiration, that is to say that cells are respiring without oxygen due to the increased workload of running. This would suggest to me that cramp is linked with fatigue alone.
Any thoughts on the effectiveness of Cod Liver oil?
I believe that Ibuprofen (oral or topical gel) helps with cramp...
So, here's a question really:
Is there any reason not to swallow a couple of ibuprofen tablets before a long race such as the 3 peaks? - if it helps stop the onset of cramp is there some other compelling reason not to take it?
Cheers.
google answered my question and it seems like a no no:Quote:
Originally Posted by crowhill
http://sportsmedicine.about.com/od/m..._endurance.htm
I have taken ibuprofen and othe pain relieving anti-inflamitries before races and have felt the wrath of this mistake! Serious no no. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by crowhill
Not always surely?Quote:
Originally Posted by martin hall
Read this today http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/14/he...=1&oref=slogin
no answers but some theories
Its bloody painful:eek: Remember hearing Rob Jebb talking about it after another 3 Peaks Cyclocross win. Don't think its down to not being fit. Everyone gets it at some point. Words of warning: do not attempt intercourse on the same day you've had cramp. Wife may have enjoyed my uncontrolled writhings, i certainly did not:eek: :D
Apologies, i should have been clearer. I THOUGH, or rather was UNDER THE IMPRESSION that it is a build up of Lactic Acid which caused cramp.Quote:
Originally Posted by david
Last month, i was getting cramp at the most random times in the most random please. I have a really good diet and im quite fit but it was worrying me that i was gettin cramp all the time. I even got cramp in my jaw when i yawned.....i sport to my a-level sports teacher and he recommended taking multi-vitamin. Im still on them know and i dont know whether its a coinsidence of not but that cramp has stopped (touch wood)
How/what could i take for the electrolight thighy that everyones talkin about?
You can buy isotonic energy drinks from good sports/outdoor/health shops. This can come a a powder to mixed with water or as a juice.Quote:
Originally Posted by fowler765
Lucozade make a pwder, High Five make quite a good powder that comes in individual 500ml sachets.
Alternatively, some people take diarrhea relief.
Essentially a bit of salt and a bit of sugar in some water.:D
I got some advice today to neck a load of tonic water (Schweppes in particular, and no the guy was not a rep!)the night before a race to stave off the cramp!
Geeral opinions, something in it? or a load of tosh?!?:confused:
In my experience it is brilliant for relieving cramp after a race or long run.
You just need to make sure that there is loads of gin in with it!:D
Sounds like a top idea to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Navigator
I've heard of this before but never tried it out, maybe something to do with the quinine:confused: Don't know how long it would last though.
4 hours?
8 hours?
16 hours?
Active ingredient to aid cramp is quinin. I have tried it in the past but did not find any difference.
Sounds about right, the guy that recommend this runs his own triathalon shop and swore blind that he drinks it every time the day/night before and has never had cramp since (and that he used to suffer badly).
I for one am going to have a bash given the agonies of Edale, Wuthering Hike and PPP this year.....:mad:
I've tried it but the quinnin gave me a really bad headache....and no it wasn't the gin that did that before anyone suggests....:rolleyes: well then again! ;)
Are you a Pacer TP?Quote:
Originally Posted by team pie