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The fact that you are having to ask this question tells its own story. At that point UKA hadn't sorted out the coaching pathway....it wasn't revealed until earlier this year. People who did CiRF courses have been sold a complete (and expensive) dummy. This is a shame because the people who delivered the course were excellent.
There seems to be a certain amount of misinformation around at present.
As I read it, the FMR 2 course is not yet a CiRF course. That change is yet to come. At that point the 12+ limitation will come in. (I actually think this will be a serious problem for most of our junior coaches taking that award, and needs to be addressed.)
According to the UKA document here as UKA Level 2 Group Event Coaches (which is on my Licence) we are insured, and there is no indication of age limits. This is also reiterated on the FRA website here.
So, it looks as if we FMR L2 coaches can coach any age group and be insured.
As for bashing UKA, without their support there would not be any FMR courses. When I became Junior Coordinator in 2008, one of my first priorities was to get a proper coaching course. UKAthletics funded its development and subsidised the pilot course. Because of that, 40+ people are qualified to coach Fellrunning to anyone. If you look around the junior clubs, I doubt they would be so well coached without this and they almost certainly wouldn't be properly insured.
I don't think it's too much to ask that the communication is clear and unambiguous. Effectively, the CiRF course is a dead end....unless you want to coach Marathon runners. This was emphatically not clear when CiRF courses were advertised. I doubt that many would have signed up if it had been. In actual fact, the message in Tom's message here flies directly in the face of what I was told (when I specifically asked) about the CiRF qualification and its place in the coaching pathway.
When did you do your coaching qualification and where do you coach?Quote:
Originally Posted by manothemoors
Hi Eleanor, this was a mistake in my post, as I copied and pasted the text from the CiRF license and forgot to delete the age range. I have now amended my post.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanor
To clarify:
1. Level 2 FRM - there is no age limit to whom you can coach. If you are insured as a Level 2 FMR you stay with this qualification for life and not be transferred to any other qualification.
2. The proposed CiRF FMR - the details of this course have not been finalised as it is currently being designed. The only stipulation will be that this is for coaches working OFF TRACK as is the case with FMR clubs. There will not be an age range like the CiRF course because this course will be extended to include far more information on Long Term Athlete Development. As I said it will be designed to meet the needs of the FRM community and will be designed in conjunction with the FRA.
3. CiRF - this course has an age limit of over 12s. It is designed primarily for Road Running clubs who work with adults who want to keep fit, hence the name Coach in Running Fitness. It has an age limit of 12+ so individuals who want to keep fit can bring their older children along.
I am sorry for the any confusion my post has caused. My key point is that we are moving towards a structure that is appropriate for the FMR community and I would like to keep you up to date with what is happening.
Best regards,
Tom
Just to clarify there will be no age limit on the new CiRF FMR courses. The only limitation is that a CiRF FRM will be that it is designed for people who want coach OFF TRACK.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lecky
Coaches at Track and Field Athletics Clubs who want to coach endurance should take the Athletics Coach course because this is the entry point to the Event Group Endurance course which covers Middle Distance, Long Distance and Steeplechase and builds on the concepts around sprinting (for middle distance) and hurdling (for Steeplechase) introduced at Athletics Coach as well as the endurance material contained in that course. It also includes extensive material on Long Term Athlete development which draws on the use of Jumping and Throwing as methods of conditioning for young endurance athletes operating in a track and field environment with sand pits and access to throwing implements.
Tom
There still seems to be a problem with the Ucoach site that will not allow FMR level 2 coaches to access the modules and sign up. Or is it just me?
Maybe just you ~ I can access the courses now. All the courses come up twice at first (as 'enrolled courses' and as 'courses'). Then when I actually enrolled on a course, the enrolled list contained just the one course. I think it's working.. Here's what we've been missing out on:Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazmuz
Assessors Courses
UKA Coach Assessors Course (not self-enrolment)
Athletics Coach Courses (ie 12-15 or equivalent in LTAD model)
Athletics Coach: Wheelchair Racing
Athletics Coach: Triple Jump
Athletics Coach: Hammer
Athletics Coach: Discus
Athletics Coach: Pole Vault
Event-Group Courses (ie 14-19 or equivalent in LTAD model)
Event Group: Sprints & Hurdles
Event Group: Endurance
Event Group: Jumps
Event Group: Throws
I'm pretty sure that should say LiRF!Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Crick
I've managed to login too, but had to have my password reset, but that did it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazmuz
You almost need to go on a course to get your head around this.
It's a real shame.
I fully understand the need to look at coaching and constantly see how the coach education can be done better.
However, when I entered coaching back in 2005, there was a clear structure.
Level 1 to 4 with 1 being assistant and 2 to 4 being varied levels of qualification for group coaches.
A coach could stick to their discipline and climb up the levels eg with endurance specific modules, or they could branch out and stay at their level but add disciplines to be able to broaden their skills.
Many did both.
Once you had done level 2 core (a weekend) you then added disciplines by doing event specific modules (again a weekend). No need to do the Core again.
I think the late Norman Matthews was Level 4 endurance but also level 2 or 3 for several of the other athletic disciplines.
More importantly we had course tutors able and qualified to deliver. I do wonder how much of this free online system is to mask the fact that we have been unable to deliver a full range of coaching courses now for almost 4 years.
I know we won't go back now, but I just think that too often our sport is led down an unnecessary path by sports academics and politicians in the name of change and in order justify their roll.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Witton Park
........:DQuote:
Originally Posted by Charlton Ogburn. (1911-1998)
That is brilliantly put.Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyA
It explains so much of what happens in life as a result of much of the establishment, not just the Feng Shui with the coaches courses.
Sums up what happens in the NHS nicely.Quote:
Originally Posted by Witton Park
To be fair we were under a lot of pressure to adopt the UKCC set up in athletics, which is widely used by other sports. This was close to completion when the course fees became clear along with feedback that many people wouldn't be able to commit the time for the courses.
Im also a swimming coach and my level one was actually more of a commitment than my level 2 endurance in athletics.
Its no good having a great coach training programme if most people cannot afford either the cost or time!
a hasty retreat was made but I believe that we had to move away from the old levels because they aren't comparable to UKCC.
Someone more involved than me might be able to clarify this better.
All I can say is that the old Level 2 Core + Endurance was the same as the FMR2 UKCC course, which is why I was so disappointed at the time. They even used some of the UKA literature and scenarios.Quote:
Originally Posted by wycoller
Feng Shui and little else in my opinion Paul. It even had those coaching bugs :w00t:
I went on that first pilot course, and thought it was excellent. I suspect that the next versions of the course were even better.
It is no surprise that it used some of the UKA Endurance course, as a lot of the emphasis was on how to coach, but mainly using scenarios that were fellrunning based.
I doubt that the endurance course had anything about uphill and downhill running for fellrunning, using fellrunning videos and examples. Nor would it have had a section on navigation. The discussion on risk assessment was very interesting (albeit with some significant misinformation that I was able to correct on the second weekend) with a number of experienced orienteering and fellrunning coaches debating whether you can let athletes run out of sight. (The answer is it is allowed but depends on the athlete, their experience, where they are going and how you supervise this.) I'm absolutely sure that I, and pretty much everyone else learnt a great deal about coaching and specifically coaching fellrunning.
I don't know where the new coaching structure will take us - but I do know that we have good people involved in making it happen and fitting it to our needs.
I'd like to clarify that the anomalous situation I found myself in regarding CiRF and the UKA coaching structure has now been resolved.
I'd like to add my tuppen'orth about the delivery of the CiRF course (not the Fell Running Course). Much of the content and video material was based around fell running and was very useful. The course tutors (Graeme, Bash and Steve) were absolutely first rate....I'd recommend any course delivered by them.
I would agree Lecky - for anyone who hadn't already done endurance level 2 it was probably perfect and I did feed that back in - good course, well delivered by Graeme and BashirQuote:
Originally Posted by Lecky
But the point I am making is that it was the UKA Endurance Course with a little tweaking to use a fell scenario rather than a XC scenario for example and the literature I was given for my pre-course was actually the UKA literature. Of course at the time Jeremy and Graeme refuted that, but they would wouldn't they.
The most interesting part for me on that first weekend was the uphill running technique video.
I was also on the pilot course with you both and was disappointed with a lot of the course due to the lack of fell running material.Quote:
Originally Posted by Witton Park
Agree with WP the up hill video was a great point.