finished most of the packing last night
driving up this evening - should get to Askham about 9pm - may slope off into the pub for a small soft drink ;)
then bed down in the hall ready for porridge at 5am :p
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finished most of the packing last night
driving up this evening - should get to Askham about 9pm - may slope off into the pub for a small soft drink ;)
then bed down in the hall ready for porridge at 5am :p
Have a good 'un, Daz. Same goes to everybody else. I wish I was joining you up there in Tour de Helvellyn land.
Got the afternoon of so starting to carbo load before a quick nap. Was nervous yesterday & my left leg felt like lead but am in a zen like state today so looking forward to it. I'll be the one with 14 qtrs of cheese n onion sandwhiches-so if youre feeling peckish / desparate I'm your man.
See you in the morning folks.
see you up there Daz, I should arrive around the same time. Unfortuantely I cannot have our camper van as it is needed for Si at an orienteering event tomorrow so I too will be on the floor.
Got home late last night, getting out of the car was interesting! What a day, as for the weather enough said.More importantly, a big well done to Joe and his team for all the hard work.Nice cup of tea from the ladies at Wythburn.Did anyone see the families in distress on Place Fell, they declined help but then asked for the way to Patterdale!The two wee girls looked very distressed/hypothermic.
Fellsman next!
Well I for one am still buzzing after getting round my longest event to date unscathed & compos mentis. Did wonder at 1 point going up to Grisedale tarn if I'd put too much effort in the 1st half as I saw 1 of faster club mates just ahead. Enjoyed most of the route, apart from the top of Helvellyn - was glad when we dropped down of White side. Almost wished I'd put more of an effort in the last few miles.
Thank you to all at Nav 4, especially Stuart, who seemed to be here,there & everywhere and to my fellow "pack" runners for looking out for each other on the aforementioned hairy bits.
Daz & I came across the 2 families dropping down of Place fell - the youngsters were not having a good day at all, unlike 1 youngster who was fully waterproofed going down to Wythburn I saw.
Getting out of the car after the 2 hr drive home was probably the hardest part of the day.
Well that was epic, wasn't it!?
My fitness is good atm, so this would've been magnificently enjoyable if it hadn't been for the pesky weather
instead it turned into more of a "challenge met and achieved" kind of enjoyment
not sure how much "sleep" I got on the hall floor, but it was at least "rest", so set off feeling fine
early intro to the day's conditions on the final approach to High Street
so nicely soaked on first arrival at Side Farm
pushed back up into surprisingly bad conditions at Grisedale Tarn, which heralded first navigational cock-up of the day with nearly a full circuit of the tarn!
lost about 20mins but eventually found Raise Beck and down to Wythburn, where nice man told us all about the "testing" conditions on Helvellyn and suggested we don every bit of kit we weren't already wearing!
only good thing is that the wind was mainly from behind
while clipping at the trig, met group of 4 walkers (German I think) asking "Is this Helvellyn?" and "Which way is Dollywagon" - didn't envy them that section into the wind/rain :eek:
2nd slight nav error missing turn for Lower Man, met Manhar, couple of Macc lasses and few other lost souls and a group of us stuck together til we found White Side CP and started the luvverly drop out of the worst of it into the valley down to Glenridding and on to the haven of Side Farm again
Manhar & I paired up for the final section, in the warm knowledge that we would be getting our names in the results, and set out up Place Fell (non-direct route!)
astonished to encounter the two families on the top asking the way/how long to Patterdale - really hope the young girl who was crying at that point was OK :confused:
took it slow in the clag over Hart Crag making sure we found the right way, then put map away for the run down to Boredale/Matterdale and in
just to take the p!ss, the sky cleared to blue and we were dazzled with some astonishing rainbows after Howtown
Manhar then left me for dead trying to keep up with the speedy-finishing Macc lasses, as they all put 5 minutes into me over the last 45 mins
had been hoping for 12 hours, and considering 30mins "misplaced" and 20mins at road stops :o, quite pleased with 12:54 in the end
soup/bread/tea/cake very welcome
worst bit of the day was getting out of the car at motorway services to go for wee/get coffee, when I realised just how horrifically my lycra shorts had chafed - my "John Wayne walk" no doubt appearing hilarious to anyone who has never actually suffered this fate
Many Thanks to Stuart and all other organisers/marshals etc
Epic.
P.S. I'm wondering if I deserve a prize if, as I suspect, I was the only finisher to go the whole way round in shorts/without gloves?!
Shorts would have left me in tears on Helvellyn. I did wear gloves but ad opted just to take my very thinnest so they were not really all that much use. Agree re the rainbow that I saw as I was driving home
Congratulations to all that finished this one, pulled out at side farm due to feelibg weaj and feeble and headed for Askham. Place fell a bit of a sting in the tail. The lack of visibility at High street was interesting. Ah well, first DNF in 2 years of running :((
Just wanted to say big thanks to Joe for organising a cracking event. All four seasons in one day. Taking some of the fell running lines really saved me some large chunks of time. If you are a fell runner and want to do some ultras this has to be on your list.
A brilliant day out, even more so after my DNF last year, also would recommend to anyone fancying a tough ultra with great organisation. Top marks for the porridge and soup too :)
Anyone on here doing this one? I’ve not done it before, but am familiar with some of the route - the section from High Street, down to/through Patterdale, via Grisedale Tarn to Wythburn, then up to Helvellyn. The rest* is unknown to me and won’t get chance to do a further recce. Any tips/pointers from people who’ve done the race before or are familiar with the route?
* Weather and underfoot snow conditions will determine whether you can descend Swirral Edge or have to go via Whiteside Zig-Zags. I’ve done neither route before (only Striding Edge)… am curious, is (descending) Swirral Edge that much quicker than the zig-zags?
It is billed by the Nav4 team as a low key event (which is an appealing aspect), but still only 49 people currently signed-up from a max of 100. The main Nav4 website is currently out of action (and may be for a little while longer), so if you’re interested in entering, you can do so here https://www.sientries.co.uk/event.ph...&event_id=2193
Also further info here……
https://www.facebook.com/NAV4-Advent...088989/?ref=hl
I'm doing this Mark. Will be by far the longest race and most climb I've attempted.
Similar to you I'm familiar from the Kidsty Pike area, over High Street, Patterdale, Helvellyn, and back over to Place Fell. The other parts do not appear too confusing on the map (famous last words).
Swirral Edge looks very daunting from above, particular in mist, you get to the cairn and it appears to descend into the abyss, but it's only 50 yards or so of moderately easy scrambling, then it becomes a lot more gentle. In terms of time, I think it's quicker than White Side due to pure distance. Personally I'd prefer it if we have to use White Side route as I think there's a little more scope for route variation and shortcuts. I think with Swirral Edge it is easier to cross the ridge back into Grisedale, but with White Side you are in the Glenridding valley unless you make a detour up and over to get back to Grisedale.
Place Fell after 30 odd miles will be horrific.
Can't wait!
Pete
Nice to hear you’ll be there Pete. Hopefully get a chance to meet at some point. I’ll be there for registration on the Friday, but staying in the Punch Bowl Inn both nights.
Yes, going to be quite challenging this one, with ~10,500 ft climb. I did 4 Inns last Sat (40 mls – 7,500 ft) and legs felt great afterwards, so hopefully I’m reasonably prepared. Hope the weather is kind to us. My main aim is get round before it gets dark and not trash my legs too much – am doing the Fellsman the following weekend ;)
I’ve done the route out of Patterdale up to Angle Tarn and have glanced up at the suitably impressive and slightly daunting Place Fell. I definitely won’t be taking the direct line, especially after 30 miles as you state!
Until we got the event update email yesterday, wasn’t even aware Swirral Edge was an option. Thanks for the extra info on that route choice….. and hadn’t even made the connection yet about further route variations e.g. going back into Grisedale. Might have to plot/examine some scenarios in Tracklogs.
I'm staying in Penrith and will probably register on the morning. Say hello to the guy in Dark Peak vest and bandana!
10000ft? Oh dear, said something like 2000ish metres on the website, which I guessed was about 7000ft. Oh well not to worry. I had been hoping to push towards 9 hours but it's a step into the unknown distance wise, so will see what happens.
I was also unaware that White Side was only a bad weather/snow checkpoint. if we do have to take in White Side i was planning on shortcutting the zig zags and staying in the valley all the way to Glenridding., rather than extra climb to get back over to Grisedale, just to save 3/4 of a mile on the road at Glenridding.
Pete
I’ve checked my bad weather route plot with a file I found posted on a different website from Daz The Slug, and they fully align. Tracklogs (which is pretty accurate as far as I’m aware) shows that as 40.1 miles – 10,455 ft. Thanks for the tip to adopt a direct line rather than use the zig-zags – that reduced it from 40.5 miles. I noticed it said 2000+ m on the website, but that seems majorly adrift of reality.
You might want to re-think your choice via Swirral Edge (I've since done some plotting) – continuing down into Glenridding (similar to bad weather option), that’s 39.5 miles – 10,113 ft. Or if you take a small climb away from Red Tarn and go over Hole-in-the-Wall and head down into Grisedale again, that’s 38.5 miles – 10,081 ft.
Any thoughts on route choice up Helvellyn? I’m currently thinking of just following the main path. The alternative is a more direct/steeper line, which is the reverse of the racing line used in OCT/10 Peaks.
PM me with your email address if you want any of my gpx files.
My plan was to take a pretty direct countour from Grisedale Tarn down towards the checkpoint at Wythburn/Thirlmere. Then take a direct-ish route back up towards Helvellyn using one of the becks to point the way if the weather is poor. Although I'm quite strong on steep uphills so may not suit everyone.
Yes if we are allowed the Swirral Edge route I plan to go via Hole In The Wall. I was merely suggesting that if we have to use the White Side route, then I don't think it's worth the effort to get back over into Grisedale, and would just take the easy route down to Glenridding. But I agree, with the Swirral Edge route it makes perfect sense via Hole In The Wall back down into Grisedale.
Took path down raise beck then path parallel to road to wythburn and gained places on people who went direct/contured. Also think the zig zag path up helvelyn better than direct route so as to save legs for later in particular Place fell!! Hope this helps great event did it 2years ago.
Yep, agree with you on the direct line down from Grisedale Tarn to Wythburn. The attached image shows that and the route I used to descend Helvellyn at 10 Peaks last year. Climbing is not my strong point (in fact, I don’t have any strong points, except being able to drink and eat for England), but I’m very tempted to go direct as it will save 0.6 mile.
Attachment 8401
Apologies, my fault, misunderstood part of your previous post on route choice from Whiteside/Swirral re Grisedale.
Didn't see your reply before my last posting Chorlian. Very interesting. Thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chorlian
What a fantastic day out today. Really was an absolute pleasure to be out on the tops today. Clear as you like, a bit of ice and snow on the tops, and no wind, glorious views. My first visit to Angle Tarn above Patterdale, surely one of the most beautiful parts of the Lake District.
Early start, it was a very low key affair. Had a no nonsense briefing from Joe Faulkener, who looks like an even tougher version of Oz from Auf Weidershehn Pet.
First 3 hours went like a dream, however stopping at the Patterdale checkpoint to take on food and drink, did me in. The pull up to Grisedale Tarn was horrendous, and I think if the checkpoint at the tarn had been unmanned, I may well have called it a day and descended to Grasmere. However seeing it was manned, I put on a front and started up Helvellyn. Picked up again down Glenridding valley and back to Patterdale, so much so that I went straight up the front of Place Fell, pulling back a couple of places. From there on it was just a case of walk/run and see it out. Returning back over Moor Divok was a test in will power, a deceptively long way, and navigation is tricky, especially coupled with the old hallucinations. Was very relieved to come home in 10hrs 41mins.
Hello to Mark Clayton, his mate (Keith?), Duncan from Dark Peak, and the guy from Ambleside who talked all things Spine Race and BG on the way up Helvellyn, and gave me dire warnings of going straight up Place Fell, which I duly ignored!
Pete
Nice to meet you Pete, even if only briefly. Well done with your run, especially to recover from your wobble….. and then to blast a direct line up Place Fell. Respect! I took the ‘easy’ route.
Agree, the conditions and views were amazing – blazing sunshine and hardly a breeeze. What a contrast later on though when early evening snow arrived (down to 300m). The 6 am start was well worth it to be on the hills so early and see the day bloom into full glory. Angle Tarn is a real gem for sure.
My friend I was running with (Kevin) was still recovering from an injury and really hasn’t had the chance to prepare for this properly, so we were already fairly certain from the off that we’d turn around at Patterdale and miss the Helvellyn loop, as that was going to be challenging enough for him. We still bagged 27+ miles and 6,100 ft – so a great training run and really pleased for him that he had a good outing and the injury held up. To be honest was quite thankful to do a shortened route and save myself for Fellsman next weekend.
Cheers Mark, that's a fantastic run out on no training, and for you with such a biggun' next week!
Hopefully will catch up with you more somewhere soon. Hope you enjoyed the hospitality in the Punchbowl. I could only manage to hobble down the road from the b&b to Penrith Wetherspoons for a light ale.
Good luck for the Fellsman. Yorkshire 3 Peaks next for me.
Thanks Pete. Kevin was pretty chuffed with his achievement. He’s had a few setbacks during recovery, so this was a breakthrough moment.
Finishing early meant we were back at the pub and sipping a pint around 2.30 :D. Then Kevin won the £25 jackpot on the Grand National Punchbowl Inn sweepstake….. he was on a roll that day!! Your first pint must have tasted good after an even longer day’s effort. I always say it’s a feeling money can’t buy, when after a tough day on the hills you take a large gulp of your first ale.
Will be nice to catch-up at some future point Pete. Have a good one at 3Ps.
Btw - can thoroughly recommend the Punchbowl Inn (Askham) who are exceedingly welcoming and have some lovely food & ale.
Anyone on this in a couple of weeks?
Don't recognise any names on the start list from the forum but I might be wrong....
Notice it's in the runfurther champs this year, which probably explains why there's well over 100 people signed up, compared to 50-odd last year.
I for one hope that the route remains as last year, where we don't drop from Grisedale Tarn down to Thirlmere. Not only does it save the full climb back up Helvellyn, but turning straight up onto the Helvellyn ridge from Grisdale Tarn felt like a much more natural racing route.
Hoping to pace it a lot better, and depending on the final route, show some reasonable signs of progress over the last year.
Pete
We will be there.
Had a year off last year somthatmroutenchange is news to me, saves a great deal,of climb! Need to check with Joe, or was it just because last year there were road works/ the temporary roads etc in thirlmere.
Last year it was solely because of the problems with access down by Thirlmere caused by the flood damage. have no idea whether they will keep it this year though...
Travs, I'm on (the forum) and in (the race). So is Karen. :)
We're definitely going down to Thirlmere for the Wythburn Church checkpoint. With the exception of the Tour de Helvellyn bits, the route will be new to me. The return leg is looking interesting with two or three navigation choices. I plotted the logical footpath route on Tracklogs. It comes out a shade under 42 miles with 10,928' of ascent. That's more ascent than the Lakeland 50 (10,282'). The forecast is looking dry. Marvellous.
Hi Britnick, if you see a tall guy walking round in the red and yellow Coventry Godiva vest it'll be me...!
It is a fantastic route and pretty hard to comprehend how far you've travelled, such is the distance. The view across to the Helvellyn range on the climb up to High Street is stunning (and intimidating!).
I'll keep a lookout for you, Travs. I'll be the one in the blue and orange of Glossopdale Harriers. I might keep an eye out for the views as well, which tend to be lacking on the Tour de Helvellyn (apart from in the early icebound years).
The forecast for tomorrow is looking pretty amazing - good for taking a few photos.....
Nick it is lovely up here today. Stopped in Glenridding this afternoon and had a quick jaunt up Glenridding Dodd, just as the sun broke out. Apart from being fairly steep, it's an amazingly quick effort to get another Wainwright ticked off, barely 20 mins from the car park, and I wasn't exactly hammering the pace.
From the summit I could trace the route over High Street, then back over The Knott down to Patterdale. If the weather is the same tomorrow then it will be glorious...
That was incredibly tough yesterday, and going to take a while to recover.
Was probably the most beautiful day I've ever seen in the Lakes and was a pleasure to be in the mountains. But boy did it get hot.
Up until Patterdale I was going well, in the same time as last year, but with considerably more left in the tank. Made good progress up to Grisedale Tarn, but then it completely unraveled over the next few hours.
Made a complete mess of getting down to Thirlmere from Grisedale Tarn, think I ended up far too low down next to the tarn looking for the best path, then had to climb back up to 'cut the corner' at the bottom of the fell. Then through lack of concentration I overshot the path down to the car park by well over a mile, and had to drop down to the road and trudge all the way back.
Then I decided to make up some time by going up the Old County Tops descent to Helvellyn which damn near finished me off in the heat. People who left the checkpoint behind me and followed the tourist path all made up time here.
Still moving better than last year, but made another error coming off Place Fell, stayed high for too long and after descending spent a worrying 5 minutes with absolutely no idea where I was, que another backtrack up the road.
Eventually finished 51 minutes slower than last year, which given the course was 2 miles longer and with more climb, the stifling heat, and of course my own mishaps, I'm fairly happy with. The scale of my errors confirmed when I found out I was 36th the first time through Patterdale, but after the Helvellyn loop I'd dropped to 51st. Rallied to finish 49th, but reaching the finish and seeing people that I'd blown away on the climb up Place Fell confirmed how much I'd gone wrong again.
Hello to Britnick, I do apologise for dashing off mid-conversation when we were unexpectedly told to start. And also hello to Karen who demonstrated how to fly through a checkpoint with no fuss, and was out of sight before I'd even started to refill my bottles, never to be seen again until the finish.
Fantastically tough race and I have no doubt I'll be back next year.
Pete
Nice to meet you. I messed up,the line down to Thirlmere by being too high but had a good stomp up to Helvellyn. Feet got a bit trashed down to Glenridding and I ran out of water on the top. Stuck to main path up Place Fell and managed a pb by more than an hour somehow. What a wonderful day out
Travs, nice to chat briefly before the silent 'go'. How come you know so much about your placings through the checkpoints? I haven't seen any final results, let alone splits.
My race went as well as I could have hoped. The wheels never really fell off. I just plodded on and concentrated on holding it together, eating and drinking (electrolytes when required) as I went. I must have got the balance just right because I didn't need to 'go' all day, as usual, and I felt not the slightest bit trashed afterwards or in the days following. Our late session in the Queen's Head with some Pennine suspects, Aleks and a few others was a right laugh. Legs have felt pretty normal in the days following.
I was surprised to get overtaken by Andy Davies on the way to Angle Tarn because by that point I was mostly alone, most others having disappeared ahead. He'd had some early navigational issues. On the descent towards Patterdale I looked across to Place Fell and thought "shall I or shan't I" (climb the front on the return leg)? After nibbles at Patterdale I climbed to Grisedale tarn with renewed vigour. I took the route I know down Raise Beck. It wasn't as bad as I'd imagined. The left cut down the track through the woods to the road revealed a footpath to the Wythburn Church car park that bypasses the road. Lucky it was there as it wasn't on my map and I discovered there was no roadside verge to use. I was surprised to see Aleks sitting down at the checkpoint attending to his feet. "Running sucks", proclaimed his T shirt.
I elected with misgivings to take the roundabout route up Helvellyn via the footpath. I'd wanted to take a more direct Old County Tops route but wasn't sure exactly where to go. However, having read Travs description, perhaps I'm glad I didn't try. That climb under the cloudless blue sky in the blazing sunshine reminded me of the UTMB. I imagined being abroad. Magic!
On the descent from Helvellyn I was pleasantly surprised to meet Garry Scott, who was on his way up on a BG recce. (Good luck in June, Garry.)
Many of these parts I'd never been to before but I'd meticulously plotted the route on Tracklogs and had the 1:25,000 printouts in my hand. In the crystal clear conditions I could see exactly where I needed to go - keep right all the way to Whiteside and beyond down to Glenridding Common.
Back in Patterdale, more nibbles to supplement my own food and lots more drink to combat the advancing thirst. I asked if there would be water at Martindale Church because I knew my water bottles would not last the final 11 miles in this heat. I suspected the answer would be 'No'. I was right. Improvisation would be required. I downed another mug of weak squash before leaving.
I looked up at Place Fell. 'That looks do-able', I thought. As I reached the seat at the bottom of Rooking Gill and saw two others near the top, my mind was made up for me. I turned left and up. I followed minor trods through the dead bracken stalks which, judging by the big excavations along them, must have been badger tracks. They were leading me off course away from the gill so I tracked across right back to it. Steps were very short and rests were frequent, such was the steepness. I had to concentrate on not falling backwards. The bracken stalks, which had scratched my legs to shreds (I still bear the wounds) eventually gave way to grass as I gained height. At the scree slope that falls from the cliff edge top, a grassy gully to the left eventually levelled out to deliver me perfectly to the trig point, where I joined the path along the top. I met Phil Barnes here. He had been ahead of me at the bottom. The direct route might have saved a bit of time but it's probably not worth it.
My only nav error was back at the bottom in Boredale, where Phil and I overshot the right turn to the road. Phil's digestion began to rebel here, with loud groaning yawning burps that would later develop into something more serious and the ejection of 'substances'.
By Martindale my water bottle was almost empty and electrolyte was half gone. I asked anyone who was out and knocked on doors for a refill, but no luck. A stream in Howtown gave what I needed. It tasted as clean as any wild source I've ever sampled.
This was the first time I'd returned to Askham in full hot sunshine, all previous times being in near darkness on the Tour de Helvellyn. The Cockpit was clear to see this time. On Askham Fell where the path curves left uphill towards the trees, two runners carried on ahead. I shouted out "Wrong way". They heard but ignored me. Either they were going to go horribly off route or they knew an alternative that's not on my map. Sarah (with whom I'd been swapping back and forth all day and I'd just caught up again) and I followed the path left up the hill before cutting right before the trees. I kept my eyes on the other two way across to the right. They turned left to re-join our path further down. They had cut a corner and done less climbing. That's one to remember for next time.
I ran down the hill into Askham in the early evening sunshine to finish in 12:14, with Sarah coming in a few minutes later. The famous NAV4 homemade soup went down a treat to begin the refuelling.
Photos will follow later.
Hi Nick...
I just asked at the checkpoints about what position I was in. I did also get an email from SI Entries a day or two ago with final results and times, so keep an eye out for that one.
Well done going direct up Place Fell, that is a killer. As for the OCT route up Helvellyn, I lost time going that way compared to others who followed the path, and I'd class myself as fairly decent at climbing (I caught/passed most of the people in view who went that way). Not just lost time, but also momentum, as I then couldn't even jog the half mile incline up to the summit of Helvellyn when I emerged onto the ridge line.
To find it going up, when the path route came closest to the beck coming steeply down, the path starts to swing out right, but you cross the beck and follow a steep vague ridge up the open fell. It slackens off after a while but then gets steep again for the final pull onto the summit ridge. I also noticed a stack of people who went this way then veered massively to the right towards the top of Nethermost Pike, they must have lost a stack of time. To me it would be worth it if it bought you directly out at the summit, but all evidence points to the path being faster. To be honest I'm even a bit hesitant to use it in descent st the 10 Peaks in June, not sure it's wise to commit to such a descent so early in such a long race.
Interesting you don't feel trashed after the race. My legs are just sbout recovered, I've done easy training this week in the gym, and will be back running hopefully tomorrow. But mentally I'm shot. I've been sleeping 9 hours a night and I'm still knackered. Although I suspect that is more due to the sun and the dehydration. I suffer massively with my fair skin, am severely burnt and can't even put a proper shirt on for work at the moment, my face is peeling dramatically, and I was bordering on sunstroke after the race.
Despite the navigational cockups and bring slower than last year, I was very pleased, and generally ran quite strongly (by my own standards) til the end, certainly better than last year, and didn't have any genuine moments where I couldn't see myself finishing, unlike last year which was an ordeal at times.
I expect I'll be back next year, got a score to settle with this race!!
P.s. With regards to water at Martindale/Boredale/Howtown... If you divert 100 yards from the road in Hotown down the driveway of the hotel, round the back, there is a toilet block for the back bar, and there is a tap on the outside wall. Unfortunately it was not working as I was to find out to my dismay. I suppose they'd fill up your bottle from the bar though.
Results are in email Nick and I have copied em to Runfurther Facebook page.
Chuffed with my run but it did take a fair bit out of me, been for a fast run this morning tho
Saw the results email last night. 59th out of 95 starters came as a pleasant surprise. Bottom 38% of starters is better than recent performances, most notably Edale Skyline when what I thought was a decent effort got me a bottom 18% placing.
I hope everyone's recovered now (those that needed to, that is :p).
Here are the photos I took. Looking back at them I can hardly believe how good that weekend was.
Great photos Nick and a lot of good memories from the day, and particularly reminding me how hot that climb up Helvellyn was...!
A couple of me in there studiously poring over the map at the start....