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For me the evidence is that he's consistently beating lots of drug cheats. As I said with Armstrong when certain notables on here were saying he wasn't a cheat (you know who you are), Froome is either superhuman or he's also cheating. I know we'd all like to think he's just that good, but it doesn't work like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Muddy Retriever
TV coverage in the UK of the 21-stage race on both ITV4 and Eurosport, right through to the finish line at the Champs-Elysees in Paris on Sunday 29th July.
I thought the podcast was excellent, as usual. In particular, I thought it was interesting to hear why salbutamol is banned at those levels. It's because it becomes a steroid for muscle building, rather than a turbo boost to breathing.Quote:
Originally Posted by ba-ba
On WADA as David. I once heard someone say that the numbers on WADA's funding are not quite representative because they devolve a lot of work to national bodies with different sources of income. However, I doubt that would take it much nearer Nike's global daily turnover!
Froome doing a bit of green today
Interesting podcast - over 3,000 AAFs per year - all sports - 56%, after initial investigations, go no further - so Froome is in the "majority". As to salbutamol being a muscle builder/fat sparer only at high doses - it will do it at all doses, but the effect at low doses will be subtle, but potentially a "marginal gain".
He’s not relying on an asmatic’s inhaler is he? The lad will be on the good gear
There is an interesting article in today's Sunday Times written by David Walsh. He states that WADA "has unpublished research in its possession that clearly demonstrates its anti-doping regulations regarding Salbutamol don't work. More than that, they are likely to produce false positives".
The Salbutamol threshold use by WADA was based on research on athletes in one-day competition. They hadn't worked out what happens in multi day events such as the grand tours. WADA commissioned a research group from Denmark to look at the effects of Salbutamol use over a number of days. The group allowed 20 participants to take eight puffs (the permitted limit) on five consecutive days. Seven of them recorded levels above the 1,200ng/ml threshold and one was as high as 3,000.
Froome's Salbutamol recorded levels during last year's Veulta were all over the place and there were some occasions when it was zero. The test has been demonstrated to be not fit for purpose and it is this more than any submission by Froome's legal team that led to him being cleared. Waksh expects WADA to change their rules on Salbutamol.
Walsh says "I cannot blame those who voice their disapproval of Chris Froome because I know him well and also doubted him. It was a judgement call I now regret." Walsh by the way was the journalist who was the most dogged in pursuing Armstrong for years when few others were interested.
Sagan was impressive today.
Five times winner Bernard Hinault tells the riders to strike against Froome. Then the tour organisers say Froome is unwelcome. The next day or so and feeling under pressure in the final week before the tour the UCI clears him. It smells to me like a chumocratic decision because they didn't want a drawn out legal fight even though they could have won.
So Muddy and Wheeze are telling us the test is unfit for purpose. Wheeze says it was based on swimmers and so has no relationship to cyclists who are dehydrated from five hour stages. Yet he doesn't consider that Froome has ridden tens of 5+ hour stages and yet never exceeded the threshold for Salbutamol never mind doubled it. He also forgets that over the years loads of asthmatics have competed in the tour with only around three exceeding the threshold.
So the test seemed to have been reliable until of course the top rider in the world fails it. Then its not fit for purpose. It's a stitch up. The UCI bottled it. And forumites don't get me started on Kilian Jornet. That needs a thread all on it's own.
What’s he on Chris? Fly pie? Snecky? Battered sausages?
Quote:
Originally Posted by CL
CL
??? Well if you post it then I'll read it.
GB
Graham I recognise brilliance and Kilian is brilliant. BUT that wasn't a Man running it was a machine. This BG record raises serious issues. How did he do it? How did he take an hour off Mr Bland's time when a few months earlier he had a broken leg? Why did he show very little sign of fatigue after starting off with such a scorching pace?Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham Breeze
Now if Kilian or his Soloman sponsors are reading this and he or they want to come on and tell us he didn't use blood doping, EPO or other performance enhancing drugs to crush Bland's record then I'll be glad to hear it. But if he did then the spirit with which the BG record was set 36 years ago has been destroyed for good. It'll mean anyone going for a serious attempt on the record will have to dope to approach it.
That's all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CL
Thanks.:)
I wouldn't know... but Billy was a builder who did some fellrunning and Kilian is a world class athlete whose profession is racing and is pampered to do just that by Salomon and who can benefit from all the advances of the past 36 years (kit, food, medical advice etc) and who, on the day, was paced by some of the best fell runners around.
In any athletic field the gap between the amateur and the professional is immense (as others have pointed out on this Forum) and it would have been staggering if Kilian had not lowered the record by a significant amount - which he actually did by (only) 7+%. I understand all the excitement and hoopla about Billy's record being broken but Billy lowered the previous record by around three times as much as Kilian - but then that was in TGOD before social media.
I’m glad you’ve said that Graham. Always the voice of common sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham Breeze
I couldn’t understand all the people arguing that there wasn’t any difference between people who are paid to run whenever and wherever they want ...compared to people who get home at six o’clock after a hard day at work and then have to train in the dark and rain all winter.
As for CL I’m surprised it took you four days. 😂
Graham you haven't thought it through. Bland was an athlete who could compete on the fells with men who could run 2.11 marathons. Now you might say "big deal men can now run 2.02 for the marathon," but all the evidence suggests that this is being done through EPO abuse, asthma medications and more.2.11 for clean athletes is world class.Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham Breeze
What about diet and clothing? Again you overstate their importance. Were the shorts,vests and running shoes worn 40 years ago much different to today. Of course not. And wasn't carbo loading understood and practised by athletes 40 years ago? Of course it was.
This guy has a broken leg one minute is running a mountain marathon the next and a few days later is smashing the BG. It doesn't sit well with my instincts.
Another thing. Has Kilian been drug tested in the past six months? If he hasn't why not? And if he isn't subject to a governing body then his Solomon sponsors should be getting him tested. It's in their interests to do so. If they want us to buy their stuff off his achievements then they should make sure he's properly tested. I say the same about Inov-8 and other manufacturers. If you want to sponsor champions then get them tested. It would help their profiles no end. They've got the money to do it so get it done.
If Soloman knows full well this Kilian fellah is tearing up the mountains of Europe and climbing Everest without oxygen then they should realise that suspicion will follow and get him tested prior. And not the sort of testing the Kenyans do I.E. ringing their athletes the day before the tester is due. I mean proper testing. Soloman could have done that in Kilian's case and published the results but they haven't. And the question is why not?
I suggest you read the article in my post #75 on the BG thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by CL
http://forum.fellrunner.org.uk/showt...-attempt/page8
Thanks for that Pete S. As I stated earlier I'm not saying he isn't a good runner. But good runners still dope. I have an article for you of which the first paragraph is the best:Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteS
'Over the past few years, rumours have swirled in ultrarunning circles about how some frequent podium finishers seem so resilient to the endless, hard, mountain miles.'
https://www.outsideonline.com/210343...-trail-running
Actually I have to take back some of my criticism of Solomon. I believe they did publicise a doping program for their athletes in 2017. Well done to them for that. But saying it and doing are entirely different things. Again we need to know the details and so far I can't find any to satisfy.
Back on topic, can't say I'm enjoying this year's tour so much apart from Sagan's antics and a fine stage win for a Brummie.
I'm hoping it all kicks off on the pave tomorrow.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteS
Nah. It's worth it to see Cavendish humbled, particularly with Sagan doing so well - as he can when not thrown out of the Tour through someone's spiteful, vindictive and unjustified accusation to cover up his own stupidity.
:DCavendish, is and always has been an arrogant fool, he is also now clearly past his best.Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham Breeze
Agreed, I think Cavendish's finer years are way gone. Good to see the next generation stamping their authority in the final, though the gorilla Greipel still seems to be in the mix at the moment.
Great stage today. Excellent racing.
I really like Cav and always have. I totally agree though that his best years are now gone. Not his athletic and bike riding ability but his nerve. Maybe with his little one he now sees his own mortality and would like to live to see his child grow up. That is not a bad thing it's just as it is. MrRTS was a free climber until the girls were born then he saw life as a little more precious :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteS
He makes a great commentator so he needs to look at that career now. (Cav that is not MrRTS)
Cavendish has always been reckless and prone to blame others when things go wrong - until this Tour when even he is having to face that he is old, slow and tactically lacking. In a recent interview he explained why he didn't contest the Green Jersey these days - "they have changed the rules". Well he has only ever won one. Zabel won six, Sagan has five already and is on his way to his sixth.Quote:
Originally Posted by RaceTheSweeper
Because he is from these islands he gets far more attention than he deserves - but that is OK - it is what one would expect from British journalists who are mindful of their readers. But what I find offensive is the reporting of his aspiration to equal (or better) Merckx's record of 34 Tour Stage Wins.
Cavendish - protected by his team throughout the stage and brought to the last couple of hundred meters to start work for 15 seconds to win a sprint.
Merckx - simply the greatest road cyclist who has ever lived - or will ever live.
I don't know how Cavendish has the gall to even speak his name.
Cav had the manors to give big John a pat and well done when he won today.
Nice touch.
Wow. What a race today. Certainly livened things up a bit though really felt sorry for Romaine Bardet.
Well the poor guy has the expectations of his country on his shoulders which have been growing since 1985. No wonder he gave his all.Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteS
Well done G.
That was certainly an impressive ride and into yellow too.
Great stage today. G was fantastic. Reminded me of the Wiggins/Froome debacle in reverse. Thankfully, apparently no team orders for G.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stagger
As an aside, after a poor first week, the rest of the tour is shaping up to be a cracker. Really liking the variety of stages - gravel, cobbles and shorter mountain stages. The "sprint" mountain stage, yet to come should be interesting!
A reminder this afternoon that absolutely nothing beats a grand tour for romance, adventure, history and sheer excitement. Along with test match cricket the only sport that really matters
I was with you all the way DT until you mentioned the C word!Quote:
Originally Posted by Derby Tup
I’m really looking forward to the India test series. It’s been a strange summer with a big gap in the schedule
https://chpt3.com/blogs/journal/well-done-mark
I really rate David Millar as a commentator. His newly released film "Time Trial" is also great.
It appears all the sprinters are giving up. Cav and Kittel missed the cut by weeks yesterday, Gaviria and Groenewegen and Greipel climbing off today already apparently. It's going to be Sagan vs. Degenkolb and that's about it on the Champs next weekend!
Is the route that much tougher than normal or are they just soft/injured/past it (delete as appropriate)
All of the above with the exception of the young Dutch one that I can't spell!Quote:
Originally Posted by ba-ba
Another fantastic stage today. G is looking good. I just hope he doesn't blow up in the last week as he has done before though admittedly that was when in super-domestique role. Team Sky may have a problem though with Dumoulin looking so strong. Frome or G - if you are the DS who are going to go with. I bet they are hoping it sorts itself out on the road before they have to make a decision....
Wales or Kenya? I know which flag I'll be flying!Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteS
No surprise there! I've always rated G and he looks like a different rider this year. It's been great to see him come out from behind Froome's shadow the last couple of seasons. I just hope that he can hang in there for the last week.Quote:
Originally Posted by Llani Boy
Just had a look at the stages for the final week of the tour. Time trial on Saturday looks interesting. 30km but very lumpy - it will suit a puncheur.
I doubt the experimental 65km mountain sprint stage will throw up many surprises - any final GC shake up before the TT should be on Friday. A long mountain stage with the cols if Aspin, Tourmalet and Aubisque to contend with.