Garmin Connect gives a mean VO2 max if you also connect the heart rate monitor. Without the HR monitor, the wrist based readings though look a bit unreliable
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Garmin Connect gives a mean VO2 max if you also connect the heart rate monitor. Without the HR monitor, the wrist based readings though look a bit unreliable
So the past week has been a week of pretty good progress. I walked up Penyghent last Thursday and then on Saturday it was an 11 mile walk up Ingleborough. And then a really great, largely off road, 15.5 mile cycle ride on Sunday. All in all I probably walked 35 miles for the week and cycled 25. All of which my knee stood up to darn well.
I rested my knee Monday and Tuesday this week, aside from 3 miles dog walking each day, and had a 6 mile whiz out on the bike yesterday. Today though I girded my loins and ran again and, hallelujah, it wasn’t a slow hobbly shuffle like my previous tries but actually felt like damn fine proper running. It was only 3.3 miles of flat running around the fields here mind but my average pace was was almost 10 minute miling and my knee felt like I could’ve pushed harder too. My knee did ache a bit but nothing that felt like it was debilitating me.
That said I don’t want to get too cocky about it. I thought I was on the mend about 6 weeks ago and it turned out I wasn’t. Much depends on whether my knee reacts in anyway to today’s run out but here’s hoping I’ve hit bottom and am now clawing my way back
Also the diet is off to a good start. I weighed in at 12 stone 8 on Monday, a 3 pound loss for the week :)
A brief update:
I’m continuing to make progress although it’s not nearly fast enough (yet) right now. For sure each weekend I have been giving my knee a damn good work out and, over this last Easter weekend for instance, I managed a couple of miles running and nearly 30 miles walking, including a steep up and steep down Cat Bells, and a pretty gnarly 21 mile bike ride. With the bike ride throwing the Deepdale climb out of Dentdale to White Moss right at me a third of the way in.
My weight is still going downwards too and I’m 12 stone 7 this morning, albeit still a stone heavier than my ideal fighting weight
Hoping to start incorporating more running from later this week and we’ll then see how that goes
Frustrations aside you should be pleased with that progress.
Another great week of progress to report. Last Thursday I did a 3.1 mile trail run and really enjoyed it, with little or no grief to speak of from my knee. What’s more there were no ‘red hot pokers stabbing into my knee’ after effects either..... which made a pleasant change. And yesterday evening I did a 4.5 mile run in the fells below Penyghent and that went really well too. So two good runs within the space of 7 days; that’s what I call progress :)
But it wasn’t just the runs in the past seven days that stress tested my knee, it was what I managed to cram in between the runs too. Totting that up I managed something like 10.5 miles of dog walks, 23 miles of hiking up or around four separate peaks*, one cardio gym session and a pretty hardcore 28 miles and 2,700 feet largely off-road bike ride
After three months of pain, frustration and occasional despair it finally looks like I’m through the worst. And that I am on the upward slope (touch wood). I almost feel I should be quoting Churchill, beating them on the beaches or saying not the end, or the beginning of the end type baloney but l still don’t want to get ahead of myself. The main thing is I can run again.
Now I need to turn two runs in a week into three and maybe chuck in something a tad longer. And of course keep up all the bike riding, hiking, dog walking and gym stuff too
Oh and my weight is falling too - I’ve lost 5 pounds and am now down to 12 stone 6
*This included one peak, Whernside, at dawn for some drone photography. I couldn’t be arsed to drive all the way to the Welsh borders to have a gander at Wheeze’s back garden but went up a beautiful deserted mountain instead ;)
Another positive update. In the last 12 days since my last post I've managed:
3 pretty full on 'workouts of the day' at the gym
4 bike rides totally 66 miles with 6,500 feet of ascent, including one 37.25 mile humdinger. All bike rides were off-road as much as they were on-road and included nothing mamby-pamby :)
3 mountain hikes (Smearsett Scar, Old Man of Coniston and the 3 peaks of Upper Wharfedale) totalling 27 miles and 7,500 feet of ascent
3 trail runs totalling 15 miles and 1,850 feet. Including my first (almost classifiable perhaps as a) long run of 8 miles yesterday evening
A load of normal dog walks
Weight - 12 stone 5 pounds which = a loss of 1 pound
Knee mood - getting a good boshing but getting stronger
Hurrah, I'm finally back running in the hills. Not fast yet but trotting along okay. 4 runs, 21 miles and 5,500 feet of ascent in the past week plus a 21 mile and 2,400 feet off-road/on-road gravel bike expedition on Sunday
I also managed to fit in some aerial photography using my (fits in a pocket) aerial photography thingummybob* while I was at it, including a super snowy Penyghent yesterday morning
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...9eaa2a39_k.jpgUntitled by stoll2007
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...b38865c1_k.jpgUntitled by stoll2007
*Don't mention the d word
Great progress and those really are spectacular shots, makes me long to get back to Yorkshire.
3 runs totalling 23 miles and 2,850 ft and 3 bike rides totalling 40 miles and 4,000 feet this past week. And two crack of dawn gym CrossFit sessions to boot.
I even managed a relatively fast 3.2 mile run where, whilst not anywhere near blasting it, I was at least pushing it. I also did my longest comeback run yet at the weekend totalling 11.6 miles :)
My knee still aches a bit, especially in the first half mile of a run, but it's increasingly not nearly aching so much afterwards and here's hoping the positive trend continues. I'm now planning to really push the envelope with something a fair bit longer this coming weekend and I reckon that may be a make or breaker
Are you still planning for the long race (was it something like 100 miles in July...?)
If I can yeah. But it’s all about eating the elephant in bite sized portions. I was really worried for a short while that I wouldn’t even be able to walk in the hills again. Then I could, which was a win, and now I can run in the hills which is a win, win. I’m still though two or three wins short of being able to do the LL100 at the end of July :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Travs
Next up it’s about being able to run longer distances. And run faster. If I can do both of those then that will be fantastic and I can straight away put them to the test next month - I’m down for the Ulswater Way trail 20 race on 5th June (20 miles) and then the Lakeland 5 Passes on 25th (33 miles)
Plenty of scope for car crashes yet
Yes that Lakes 5 Passes looks a cracking route, but (and i'm pretty sure the debate has already been had on here), Ascend Events' prices seem to have rocketed.... i'll be doing Great Lakes that weekend instead.
Best of luck...
About 6 weeks to the 5 Passes I reckon. You could add 3 miles a week to your long run and be ready to hit that rather than rolling the dice this weekend. (Spoken as someone on the comeback from injury and the 5 Passes will be farthest I've run in a long time.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Fellbeast
So its now 12 full weeks since I started this thread and, coincidentally, my Garmin app charts my VO2 max over a 12 week period. Yeah I know VO2 max as measured by an app isn't going to be blindingly accurate, even though nowadays I wear my HR chest strap all of the time when exercising, but as a way of measuring relative fitness its really good I'd say. Especially good in fact as I'm now according to Garmin in the top 10% for my age and have a fitness age of 33 :cool:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...501e0347_k.jpg
I think you should now return to the Senior male category in future Fell Races, Fellbeast! ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Fellbeast
On a more serious note, congratulations on your VO2 Max results. I have never worn a HR monitor but would like to think that mine would be similarly much lower than my real age.
Unfortunately I think this and similar results says more about the general fitness of the nation and confirms that we live in a country full of fat, lazy lardy arses!
Yes I’m now as fit and an average, slightly fat 33 year old couch potato bloke 😊
I have not looked at how Garmin estimates VO2 Max but I suspect it just makes an estimate from activity level and heart rate. At VO2 Max heart rate has levelled out at its maximum and O2 consumption no longer rises, despite an increase in activity - something that cannot be kept up for long. Of course Garmin cannot measure O2 consumption. It also wants to make people feel positive about their exercising. If people are "coming back" after an injury I suspect Garmin would portray this as an increase in VO2 Max. But well done! Mine has gone from 40 to 44 in 6 months - I keep trying to push it up to no avail.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fellbeast
I found this:
For Garmin to calculate the athletes VO2 Max it collects the following data from each user:
1 – Age and personal background is recorded
2 – Exercise is started with data collected from heart rate and speed.
3 – The data collected from the activity is segmented into different heart rate scales based on the user’s background information.
4 – During the activity reliability is measured based on continuous activity (stopping etc)
5 – The most credible data segments are then used to estimate the aerobic fitness level through heart rate and speed data.
VO2 MAX GARMIN CALCULATION
Speed data is then taken from reliable segments and used to estimate a VO2 Max score. This is taken from 20-30 second periods using one of the VO2 calculations below:
Walking and Pole Walking: Theoretical VO2 (ml/kg/min)=1.78*speed*16.67[tan(inclination)+0.073]
Running on a Level Ground: Theoretical VO2 (ml/kg/min)=3.5 speed
Running in a Hilly Terrain: Theoretical VO2 (ml/kg/min)=3.33*speed+15*tan(inclination)*speed+3.5
Cycling: Theoretical VO2 (ml/kg/min)=(12.35*Power+300)/person’s weight
Rowing (Indoor): Theoretical VO2 (ml/kg/min)=(14.72*Power+250.39)/person’s weight
Unit of speed = kilometers per hour (km/h)
Unit of inclination = degrees)(°)
Unit of power = watts (W)
Unit of weight = kilograms (kg)
I like the simplicity of multiplying running speed on level ground by 3.5. So for my 10 km PB of 40 minutes = 15 km per hour x 3.5 = 52.5. This agrees with the VO2 Max charts I have seen.
That’s great Mike. Garmin’s VO2 max for sure is good for measuring relative fitness and I’m now finding I have to go harder to get any gains. I’m currently looking to improve my anaerobic scores on the Garmin app but, broadly speaking, to do that I did to get my heart rate into zone five, which means pushing it above 165bpm for me.
So hill climbs on the bike, faster running (knee permitting) and high intensity gym stuff - none of which are particularly pleasant experiences :)
VO2 max now said to be 45.
Well I threw the massive challenge of the three peaks at my knee last Saturday. 23 miles and 5,700 feet, and my knee managed to hold up which was fantastic. My quads were smashed though....
To be fair my knee has been quite sore for the last couple of days, not surprising really as my previous longest run this year was the Saturday before at 11.6 miles, but it is feeling surprisingly perkier this morning.
My feelings about my knee are now both elation that its a million times better than I ever dreamt it would be and disappointment that its still pathetically not nearly as strong as I want it to be :)
Well done - that is good news.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fellbeast
I suspect some people with symptoms similar to yours would have undergone an arthroscopy and had things "tidied up" - but the evidence that there is shows that it will have made no difference in the long term, apart from moving funds from one person to another.
Yeah there was a now relatively well known medical study in the US where they offered 180 people with similar knee osteoarthritis issues, three potential operations. One was a loose cartilage snipping op, one was a cartilage flush out job and one was a placebo with effectively just a minimal surgical cut to the skin. All participants accepted that they had a one on three chance of the placebo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike T
Apparently recovery rates over two years were identical in all three circumstances. Which I guess shows the power of thinking something has been corrected so ergo it will get better. To me though it just shows that to get over some things you just need to be willing to tough them out and fight back
There’s also examples of people having mri’s on painful knees which identify problems they, given exactly the same mri’s of their ‘good’ knee, are also found to have in their good but not painful knee. If it hurts, it gets an operation but if it doesn’t it’s not even noticed. Painful knees can be made extra sensitive for some one off reason and the sensitivity can be worked on over time. My wife saw Karen May, a top physio to some of the top of the top fell runners, regarding a knee issue and Karen told her at the time that a knee operation is the thing you consider when every other option has been given a try first
Well that’s the theory anyway
Placebo is a wonder drug. And more expensive and complicated ones work better.
Forget what I just said.
Next time your knee is sore, send me £4000 - I have a cure for sore knees. But you need to take it eight times a day while upside-down and holding a live frog.
Snake oil salesman!Quote:
Originally Posted by noel
It can't be any good if it only costs £4000.
Now if you had said £40,000 my cheque would have been in the post.
I can see you're no fool. We have a special placebo for men of your discerning skills.Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham Breeze
A big big try out for my knee of doom at Saturday’s 22 mile Ullswater Way Trail race and, all things considered, my knee was just about up for the task (and I didn’t need to deploy the emergency walking poles I was packing). In fact I think I ran the first two quarters of the race pretty darn well, out anti-clockwise around the lake from Glenridding to Howtown and then climbing Barton Fell before dropping down and reaching Pooley Bridge at the 11 mile point. That side of Ullswater, the south/east side is as rocky as feck in places and, coupled with queues of runners at these tricky bits (there were 582 in the race), meant that it was a bit slow going to begin with, especially as I started near the back, but I did manage to make good headway and overtake a good chunk of the field. The steady pace probably suited me anyway.
The third quarter of the race after that, mainly spent steadily climbing Gowbarrow fell, was super hot but I think I did okay here too but the final quarter, descending Gowbarrow to the checkpoint at Dockray and then running in via Aira Force and the lakeside to the finish at Glenridding, was a bit of a grim do, with wheels falling off left, right and centre, and was all about hanging in through gritted teeth. For sure my knee wasn’t dead keen on the steep rocky descent off of Airy Crag but the heat and my lack of running so far this year also played their parts - I checked strava afterwards and my total running for 2021 now stands at 220 miles so this race accounted for 10% of it all!
My knee was definitely groaning a bit at the finish and I was feeling a bit sick and completely trashed too but I managed to stagger over to the lake and dive in, which seemed to help a bit
I finished in 4 hours 39, 215th out of 582 runners and 4th old bastard out of 24 old bastards - and in the circumstances I’ll take that. But jeepers I would have smashed that time last year when I was running fit :rolleyes:
Me looking a bit battered, running down from Dockray into the woods at Aira Force in the searing Lake District heat. Apologies for my poor hair styling but I'd just doused my head in a stream:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...c207a74b_c.jpg
As for after effects, my knee did swell up a bit on the day and aches a fair bit now too but, when compared to my run around the three peaks a couple of weeks ago, it feels like its aching a little less on a relative scale. So the graph is still I think going in the right direction. It was brilliant to be back in a race and finishing above the median with a gammy knee definitely exceeded my expectations beforehand. I am now though leaning towards a more patient recovery this year, just getting back and enjoying the fells, and am looking at the Lakeland 100 at the end of July somewhat more sceptically. I might still give the Lakeland 5 Passes a go later this month, if my knee continues to improve, and just see what happens after that
VO2 max = 47.
Did Fellbeast make it to the Lakeland 100...?
No :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Travs
But how's your knee? At the start of this thread you couldn't run on it.