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Well we did it amd Paul was 5 mins quicker via Carl Side. He went 0.8miles shorter. We both took it easy, although Paul confessed that the steepness was harder going than my canter up the tourist route. My time 79mins, his 74.Quote:
Originally Posted by Swiss Toni
Great Stuff Mark,
I have been waiting for the results of that little BG race.
I spent saturday looking at the back end of leg 3. We picked it up from Harrison Stickle and tried to keep to a 23hours schedule between peaks.
We made a school boy error after rosset pike/crag and went to the right of Angle Tarn and continued up what we thought was the climb up to Bowfell (summit was in the clouds) we had actually skirted up Esk Pike. Oh Well, still lots to learn.
We then progressed to each summit on route upto to scafell pike and down to mickledore.
Ill Crag and Broad Crag are rocky little buggers are'nt they.
Saw another chap out reccieing the same route. So we did follow his footsteps in the snow upto great end.
Great Stuff, I was cream crackered after that, still a lot of climb and time on feet to get into my legs
Jamie
Jamie,
Since the Gallery is still down, here's a shot showing the rakes up Bowfell taken from near the summit of Rossett Pike. http://www.aqvi55.dsl.pipex.com/pict...fell-rakes.jpg The Head of Rossett Gill is just out of shot bottom right.
A is a grassy area on the summit plateau of Bowfell that is at the top of one line.
B is Bowfell Buttress and is about 100m nearer the summit than A
C is an alternative entry/exit and is found just short of the summit of Hanging knotts at a trough in the ridge.
The dashed and full lines show the various options available.
I'll leave this shot up for a while but if anyone wants a copy for their own use then I don't mind it being saved from the above link.
Bob
Thanks for that Bob,
Ill be back up that way later in March, Ill get it right next time. It was quite cloudy on the tops.
Cheers
Jamie
Tried this today, it seemed less rocky than the normal traverse, so better for tired legs? You do lose more height but you cut across on a more direct line to Red pike following a stream at first so less distance, there was not much difference in my times, about 2 minutes faster but I was 2 minutes fast between each summit than I was last year.Quote:
Originally Posted by alwaysinjured
Bill
Also on the way to Pillar has anyone tried the path that traverses to the SE of black crag?
Descending off there to wind gap is very rough and slow in the wet so just where the path rises up again to the cairn above black crag I dropped down to the right (SE) after a short descent came upon a cairn and trod traversing around to bring you out a few meters above wind gap.
Do people use this in reverse on the Ennerdale?
Bill
I think the 'sod it' approach to crossing the caldew works best - your feet should be a little moist by then anyway after the splashy trod off Hare Crag and up Calva.
We took a straight line from the south summit of Calva to the summit of Blencathra on Sat and just headed down the heather and up the common on the other side as the crow flies. We rounded the head of Roughten Gill and kept the height and popped out on the summit without going across the saddle. This is direct, saves a bit of re-ascent (i.e. the saddle depression) and the ground is no worse than anywhere else around there (that's the 3rd line up there i've tried - it's all the same marshy then tussocky stuff).
I would suggest taking the shortest possible distance between GC and Blen and get your feet wet! That's my plan for the big day!
ST
The quickest (and easiest underfoot) way between GC and Blencathra is as follows:
From the south summit of Great Calva, head down the path on the South ridge for about 100m. Then break left and take a direct line for the summit of Mungrisedale Common. This line crosses the Caldew about 300m downstream of a fence crossing the river which may be used if the water is particularly high.
Once at the summit of MC, there is a faint trod that appears to head to the left of Foule Crag (the left end of Blencathra) take this. It soon bends back and improves and takes you to within a couple of hundred metres of Foule Crag. Continue in the same line until level with the base of the scree slope on the right. Now bear right and pick up a faint path across the scree which leads to the saddle. Direct to the summit.
This line has the advantage of being mostly runnable even in the dark - only the section from the river up to the cairn on MC is walking. It is also very direct and loses no unnecessary height.
Not sure about on the Ennerdale but the Wasdale race uses it - fairly certain it was in the race notes when it was a championship race the other year.Quote:
Originally Posted by Baggins
I missed it on my round as I had only reccied that section under snow and it isn't the terrain you'd cross in fell shoes when on your own as a slip would be "interesting". Definitely easier underfoot than going over the top though.
That explains it Bob forgot the Wasdale goes that way :oQuote:
Originally Posted by Bob
Bill
There is a group going to recce the route off Sca Fell to Sca Fell Pike (anticlockwise BG). Does anyone know what the best alternative is to Broad Stand i.e. Foxes tarn or Lords Rake?
Martin,Quote:
Originally Posted by martin
on John Fleetwood's winter BG we used a route that went between Foxes Tarn and Scafell East Buttress, due to ice on Broad Stand. This worked well. Hard to explain from the top, probably best for reccy to go up the route first from Mickledore.
Drop down from Mickledore, not too far, then find a trod (climber's?) that hugs the base of the impressive East buttress. Once past the buttress work upwards on grassy rakes and trods, you'll see Foxes Tarn over to the left and below.
Hope that makes sense, can't comment on Lords Rake as only done this and Broad Stand.
Cheers, Ali.
Well Lords Rake is shorter nad has 150' less climbing than Foxes Tarn, but Foxes Tarn has a far lesser chance of being crushed to death by a large boulder. The stonefall hazard in Lord's Rake is just not worth it IMHO.
I ran from Scafell PIke to Scafell on Sunday (as part of a 3 day training-BGR in wonderful weather) via Foxes Tarn and it cost me about 12 mins, i.e. i was 12 mins slower than going via broad stand.
Enjoy your run!
ST
Here's the link showing how to get up Broad Stand
And another link for Bob Graham athletes.
Some good pics of Lords Rake as well.
Thanks for the replies. I was hoping Lords Rake would have been a bit more stable this year.
Well i did see some people on it on sunday, but i didn;t fancy my chances. It might just be me being a bit overcautious.Quote:
Originally Posted by martin
We were there on Saturday but we didn't fancy the solo up Broad Stand given the amount of Ice still on the slabs and in the gully. We reckoned if there was more than one person waiting for a rope then either way would be quicker than waiting.Quote:
Originally Posted by martin
As i went by on SUnday, there was a group waiting to go up. The chap who went up first was ok, but as i watched from the safety of Mickledore, the second person slipped and was well held, but flippin eck it was a bit of a moment. I've gone up there unroped easily enough before, but i gave it a wide berth on sunday.Quote:
Originally Posted by IanDarkpeak
Wonder how i'll be there after 12 hours on the go?!
ST
We once had a "race" from the top of Scafell to Mickledore. The route described by Ali in post 52 via Foxes Tarn/traverse under Scafell East Buttress was actually very slightly faster than via Broad Stand. Certainly if Broad Stand is wet or icy I would always go down via Foxes Tarn/East Buttress traverse.
I would never entertain the possibility of going down Deep Ghyll/Lords Rake. It is very slow because of loose rock which makes it also very unsafe. We did try it recently and it was at least 10 mins slower than the other 2 options.
On a clockwise round (which I would always recommend) Broad Stand is definitely the quickest provided you (and your pacer) are confident on rock and it isn't wet. Even if you rope up it can still be quicker.
I fully intend to be tied on before two burly blokes pull me up without my having to expend any effort. :D
I'd be very interested in finding the route Ali describes, it sounds like a shorter version of the foxes tarn diversion and will check it out on my next (clockwise) recce. If i find it, i'll take some photos and pop some lines on them before posting them.
ST
It can be quicker if its dry but has a couple of awkward steps on it that can slow you down if its wet (its the climbers traverse so there are some big drops in places)
I've vowed never to use it again when its wet and I'm carrying a heavy pack:eek:
Bill
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swiss Toni
I'm hoping for RichT to be dragging me up on a rope in June, but I'm planning a recce of this leg on Easter Saturday, so I think I'll also have a look for the route that Ali described.
I'm up that weekend although I've only got one day free (family commitments), if you fancy the company, I'll see you at the Downfall race.Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffB
Which w/e in June were you thinking of and what start time.....:)
Ian
There are two climbers' trods beneath East Buttress, you need to take the lower one - the upper one begins with a very steep grass/rock short climb and is the one usually used to access the climbs. It ends at a rock wall.Quote:
Originally Posted by Swiss Toni
On this page http://www.frcc.co.uk/rock/newroutes...es/scafell.htm about a quarter of the way down is a photo of the East Buttress (search for the text "New Horizons", the shot is just below.
At centre bottom of the shot an area of light rock may be seen slanting up and right. Going leftwards from the same point is a grassy line that leads to the edge of the shot about a third of the way up from the bottom corner. This is the line to take. It comes out directly at Foxes Tarn and avoids having to drop right down to pick up the gully containing the outflow of the tarn. It saves around 50m of descent/ascent. (note that the upper incorrect line begins at a vaguely orange patch of vegetation up and right of the start of the correct trod - it is the next break rightwards in the rocks).
Coming the other way, and this is from memory so may be incorrect, you descend to Foxes Tarn and then cut left to find a couple of small cairns from where a short scramble down over easy rocks leads to the traverse.
I'll be doing this section both ways this summer so may have to rely on this myself :D
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/187/4...26c3d01d_d.jpg
Thanks for such an excellent description. If i have it right, do you mean this line (ish!)?
ST,Quote:
Originally Posted by Swiss Toni
that's the one. Head upwards as soon as possible after the crag.
Cheers, Ali
Yes, I didn't want to pull the shot from the site and use it myself but since you've done it...Quote:
Originally Posted by Swiss Toni
The yellow line is the best line, the dashed part is where it follows a trough beneath the crag. The red line is the one you need to avoid.
Thanks Bob. I;m sure they won't mind re the photo - i'm not making any money from it, and it's being used for a good cause, well good for me anyway! :) I tend to forget there are probably ettiquete type issues around these things - oops...Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob
Looking forward to giving that route a go, esp if there are a line of people at Broad Stand on the day - it seems like a useful fallback.
Thanks again
ST
After a number of long runs I'm getting fed up of sweet sticky stuff, Jels, Chocs, Fruit etc :o
It's ok for a few hours and when you get a dip but I'm already bored of it. I do take an occasional packet of Crisp's:eek: which helps the salt intake.
Any other positive suggestions, I'm sorry roadrunner and Plumbum "ginsters" don't cut it for me.:p
I have considered boiled potatoes tossed in salty butter and allowed to cool.
Another question, How valuble does any one find cycling in the pursuit of Hill stamina/Speed/Fitness?:confused: Am I better plodding the hills on foot or going out on the bike one day a week?
Ian
Bob Graham himself apparently had a lightly boiled egg for breakfast at Dunmail Raise on his round in 1932 so I reckon anything goes. It is very much personal preference. I would however advise against taking too many sweet drinks and food in the first half as this tends to make you feel sick which stops you eating anything at all.
The calorie-burn rate on a BG round is usually about 650 calories per hour - a lot less than say a marathon. You can't possibly take in during the run the approx 12000-15000 calories required. You have to accustom your body to burning fat from an early stage and therefore you have to be careful not to take too much sugar early on.
Another key to be able to continue eating all the way round is to start off slowly. Also eat regularly between the road stops and keep drinking.
Most people however do feel sick to some degree for some if not most of the second half. I found it very hard to keep anything other than glucose tablets down for the last 8 hours or so. Many people need to rely on such things as jelly babies, sweets etc in the last few hours.
I found moist cake a good compromise between fat and carbohydrate and it went down easily with a high calorie content. Mashed potato with butter and salt was something I looked forward to even though it didn't stay down too long! Often with food its as much psychological as physical.
It is a good idea to have the odd thing that you really like and is a bit different from everything else you are trying to eat. Your favourite packet of crisps can work well.
As to whether cycling is good training for the BG I would say that you can't beat time on your feet doing big ascents. The old advice of 10,000ft per week is still the best (although you obviously need to build up slowly over several weeks). You need to train for your aim - ie long days in the hills not necessarily going too fast. I reckon that for a 24hr BG the amount of time you need to be actually running (as opposed to walking or resting) is less than 6 hours. Think of it more as a long, fast walk than a run. Some of my training days were just very long walking days out in the hills with lots of ascent.
I had quite some trouble with cramp and getting solids down on my first attempt, i tried a few things on my second attempt which really seemed to work:
Hot marmite drinks- full of salts and b-vits
SIS Rego - Easy to get down, easy on stomach and a protein source
On the day my stomach was much better and I had no cramps at all, which considering it was hot and clear is a miracle for an easy cramper like me.
Smoothies were a bad idea, i thinks its the fructose/sucrose - If i was to it again I would cut out anything sugary as it seemed to cause sickness.
And the runs (the wrong kind of runs...):o
I'm training for the BGR and am experimenting with food whilst on the hill.
The advice about nice crisps works.
Am also finding that dried mango is good, not the really dried suff though. Sainsbury's do dried mango in a foil, resealable pouch - it's a bit slimy but by eck it's tasty, not too sweet and packed full of calories.
I;ve used it on long days (e.g. doing legs 1 and 2 together) and will use it again on my 2 day round which i'm doing over the first May B/H weekend. I'm a bit concerned as you should try and avoid too much fibre, but so far so good.
Dried banana on the other hand is awful!
ST
I did leg three over the week end and wondered over a route choice. I only had time to do one version which appears to be the 'official' short route but has more climbing over rougher terrain. any one done both or has an opinion. I'd like to go back and try it but theres only so much time.
On leaving Pike O Stickle you drop to Martcrag Moor before
1)cutting the corner via the Langdale Combe and climbing/traversing under Black Crags until you can traverse the false summits to Rossett Pike.
or
2) Traversing further North round the main path before heading southwest to RP. Although this is 0.5 miles further you climb 200ft less and the path is much more runnable.
Re food, The baked potatoes worked well, and being quite neutral didn't give my guts any problems. My veggie friend ate chicken legs!!!!! (the only time he eats meat he says) whilst on the hill and when he did his BG.
Friend of mine who is writing an article about the BG round for the Dalesman Magazine has asked if anyone has a spectacular photo that encapsulates the round or is just a damn fine piccie!!
Anybody?
I think it depends on whether you are more of a runner than a climber,Quote:
Originally Posted by IanDarkpeak
but for me the best way is the long way - I have timed both.
As you know it is the shorter of the two used on langdale race - but I reccied the two routes prior to langdale and:
A 3rd way I suggest you also try is taking the long route
but when the path rises only climb up a 70-80' then taking a level traverse on the sidehill to the col to rosset. IMHO faster than going over the minor bumps in the ridge.
I know of at least one successful BG that went the long route.
Have a couple atQuote:
Originally Posted by brett
http://iwcs.blogspot.com/2006/08/leg...moot-hall.html
I have many more from both attempts - if you can get him (or her) to email me and give me an idea of the sort(s) of photos they are looking for I'll see if I can oblidge
Re Stake Pass/Martcrag Moor
Little Binnian and I once "raced" each other over these 2 alternative routes and it was a dead heat! I actually prefer the Stake Pass route because it is more runnable (less boggy and bouldery) and has less ascent. It was the route I took on my successful BG round although I would recommend rejoining the other route at the col rather than taking a bee-line for the summit of Rossett Pike.
One of my favourite BG pics is this one of Charles & Scratch http://www.outdoorwarehouse.co.uk/in...2453833A897D79 :DQuote:
Friend of mine who is writing an article about the BG round for the Dalesman Magazine has asked if anyone has a spectacular photo that encapsulates the round or is just a damn fine piccie!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chas
That is the route I fancied. I'd rather save my hill legs for later. Esp since after Rossett you go up BB's rake.Quote:
Originally Posted by alwaysinjured