Turbo Trainers

Dare I bring the thread back to it's original meaning???

ok........New turbo bought.......god the old one was soooooo old!....sorry Widdy I was about to PM ya you could have had for nowt mate but hubbie has beaten me to it and taken it on to turbo heaven...

Anyway...... I have a few 45 min to an hour sessions to do and do do but I'm after advice for longer sessions and BEFORE all you lot get on and say I should be outside on my bike blah bleedin blah I have a husband who works stupid long days and 3 small children so YES I would MUCH rather be outside on my bike but sometimes it just ain't possible. :p

SO..... if I want to do a 90 - 120 min session (or whatever length the kids will sit through a film :rolleyes: ) what's the best plan??

For those of you that do do the long turbo-ing what indeed do you do???

many thanks!!

emmi :D

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Originally Posted by emmilou

Dare I bring the thread back to it's original meaning???

ok........New turbo bought.......god the old one was soooooo old!....sorry Widdy I was about to PM ya you could have had for nowt mate but hubbie has beaten me to it and taken it on to turbo heaven...

Anyway...... I have a few 45 min to an hour sessions to do and do do but I'm after advice for longer sessions and BEFORE all you lot get on and say I should be outside on my bike blah bleedin blah I have a husband who works stupid long days and 3 small children so YES I would MUCH rather be outside on my bike but sometimes it just ain't possible. :p

SO..... if I want to do a 90 - 120 min session (or whatever length the kids will sit through a film :rolleyes: ) what's the best plan??

For those of you that do do the long turbo-ing what indeed do you do???

many thanks!!

emmi :D

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... you'll struggle to find many specific training sessions for that long a period as most folks will reckon an hour is about tops before boredom kicks in... saying that with i-pods, DVD's and BBC I-player you can go longer.. I had a mate who knew he was Ironman ready when he could turbo through the original Star Wars trilogy. I'd suggest tacking some "normal" length sessions (see my earlier post) back-to-back and see how you go with that.

[QUOTE=christopher leigh;105372].

Surely the optimum working temperature for enzymes in the body is 37degrees?If they were meant to work best at 40degrees, surely the body would be 40 degrees?



....sorry couldn't let it be..

With regards to optimal conditions/temperatures for enzyme function you can take it up with Dr Mike Stroud:

Survival of the Fittest

"When you first start running, leg muscles are only at 37C, or even a degree or so less on a cold winter's day. Yet it is at 38C that they work best. Of course, once you start running, you generate a lot of spare heat and the muscle temperatures rise, but this can take a couple of miles, even on a warm day, and through that distance you will not feel it. The reason for muscles working better when warmer is that their enzymes are set to operate at the 38C level, which is an interesting evolutionary choice. If we had evolved to be sprinters in temperate climes, we would have been better off if our muscles worked best at 37C or even slightly cooler so that we were ready for action at any time. The fact that it takes a considerable distance to bring them up to operating temperature supports the view that our origins were warmer and our usual needs were for endurance rather than speed."

Just off to do 40 minutes Zone 3 effort on the turbo WITH a 10 minute warm-up.

[QUOTE=nikalas;107218]

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Originally Posted by christopher leigh

.

Surely the optimum working temperature for enzymes in the body is 37degrees?If they were meant to work best at 40degrees, surely the body would be 40 degrees?



....sorry couldn't let it be..

With regards to optimal conditions/temperatures for enzyme function you can take it up with Dr Mike Stroud:

Survival of the Fittest

"When you first start running, leg muscles are only at 37C, or even a degree or so less on a cold winter's day. Yet it is at 38C that they work best. Of course, once you start running, you generate a lot of spare heat and the muscle temperatures rise, but this can take a couple of miles, even on a warm day, and through that distance you will not feel it. The reason for muscles working better when warmer is that their enzymes are set to operate at the 38C level, which is an interesting evolutionary choice. If we had evolved to be sprinters in temperate climes, we would have been better off if our muscles worked best at 37C or even slightly cooler so that we were ready for action at any time. The fact that it takes a considerable distance to bring them up to operating temperature supports the view that our origins were warmer and our usual needs were for endurance rather than speed."

Just off to do 40 minutes Zone 3 effort on the turbo WITH a 10 minute warm-up.

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Nicklas thanks for the info! I wasn't being deliberately cantankerous in our earlier discussions, I just didn't know one way or the other.For years I've warmed up believing it to be doing me some good.Sometimes though, particulary when short of time, I've gone into my dungeon and done 20 minutes on the turbo as fast as when I warm up.I never once injured myself.

So I started to think about all the reasons for warming up and down.I understand certain aspects of the warm up, other aspects don't make sense.Now just because I don't understand them, doesn't mean they're not true, but the reasons given just didn't add up.

I think you knew that as well, because otherwise you wouldn't have gone to the trouble of putting Stroud's article on here. Anyway I've read it, but a lot of it doesn't make sense.

Some people are naturally at 38C so they wouldn't need to warm up, according to Stroud.If a person with a normal temperature of 37C warmed up to 38C, surely the body would start trying to lose the heat via normal means(sweating etc).Doesn't this indicate, that the body is trying to reduce its temperature, to the most efficient level(i.e 37C)?

I don't know what the answer is Nicklas, but I'll keep digging!

Regards Chris

[QUOTE=christopher leigh;107290]

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Originally Posted by nikalas

Nicklas thanks for the info! I wasn't being deliberately cantankerous in our earlier discussions, I just didn't know one way or the other.For years I've warmed up believing it to be doing me some good.Sometimes though, particulary when short of time, I've gone into my dungeon and done 20 minutes on the turbo as fast as when I warm up.I never once injured myself.

So I started to think about all the reasons for warming up and down.I understand certain aspects of the warm up, other aspects don't make sense.Now just because I don't understand them, doesn't mean they're not true, but the reasons given just didn't add up.

I think you knew that as well, because otherwise you wouldn't have gone to the trouble of putting Stroud's article on here. Anyway I've read it, but a lot of it doesn't make sense.

Some people are naturally at 38C so they wouldn't need to warm up, according to Stroud.If a person with a normal temperature of 37C warmed up to 38C, surely the body would start trying to lose the heat via normal means(sweating etc).Doesn't this indicate, that the body is trying to reduce its temperature, to the most efficient level(i.e 37C)?

I don't know what the answer is Nicklas, but I'll keep digging!

Regards Chris

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I think you've hit the nail on the head (agreement!!!) that there is no hard and fast concrete answer. Also, long established and accepted "facts" about training/performance should be challenged. For example, recent meta-analysis have strongly challenged that post-exercise stretching serves any role in injury prevention. However, I am swayed by the physiological process of a warm-up and do believe that it results in improved performance. There will be exceptions and some folks can go from "cold" but there will always be variation but, for the majority of people, I'd always recommend one.

From my own experience, I know certain sessions are impossible for me unless I've fired up the system. For example, yesterdays 40 minutes in zone 3 on the turbo. I have to do five minutes of steady and then five minutes of increasing efforts to be able to elevate my heart-rate and sustain it.

Back to the enzymes, again there is going to be variation in a species around a mean and this could reflect possible adaption to different environments. However, assuming modern humans all came from the same genetic stock that variation will be minimal. Resting muscle temperature is very consistent (body striving constantly for homeostasis) and has to be to allow the enzymes to work. The band of optimum working temperature is very narrow so yes, sweating is needed to cool the system down but this is not because the body is striving to get the temperature back down to 37C. Dr Stroud's theory of this reflecting a warm climate/endurance evolutionary past is simply a theory. But, its a theory to explain the apparent anomaly, but easy to prove in a test tube fact that enzymes involved in energy production, work better at a temperature slightly above resting mean.

The truth is out there

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Originally Posted by emmilou

For those of you that do do the long turbo-ing what indeed do you do???

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Have you got a Heart Rate Monitor?
Do you know your Anaerobic Threshlod (AT)?

Some options: (Do a 20min warm up @ approx. 65% AT)
1) Build up Heart rate and Turbo for 60-120mins @ 95% of AT (Constant)
2) Build up to 95-99% for 10min intervals (i.e. 10mins @ 95-99% followed by 10mins @ 65%) repeat 3-4 times.

Note: Keep cadence high (90-100rpm)

Cool down with low resistance and lower cadence for 15-20 mins

Try http://www.tacx.com/beleef+tacx.php?...p=Your%20Coach for advice.

Injured on ennerdale and still cant run. Going to buy a turbo trainer.
Which one to buy please? Advice gratefully received! Or alternatively has anyone got a one they're not using who wants to sell it?


Cheers all x

I've got a CycleOps Mag you can have for £45. It's in perfect nick (just a bit dusty!) so please no haggling!

Let me know; i live in burnley, working skipton tomorrow, ramsbottom tue a.m, Nelson wednesday.

Andy

emmi maybe check out

http://www.abcc.co.uk/Articles/turbotrn1.html

i'm recovering an ankle sprain - I haven't got a bike that will go on a turbo trainer but i recently went to a spinning class - i know you don't have time to do that regularly but if you can get to one or two they might give you some practical ideas.

that said - i've only been to one spinning class - as a non-proper cyclist (commute about 7 miles a day - no computer etc) i was slightly confused.

The session i went to - i was more limited by leg pain (lactate build up?) than aerobic capability (so although i was panting and sweating it wasn't the limiting factor).

This session seemed to do a lot of standing up in high gear (where i couldn't pedal very fast). This goes against the recommendations in this thread for high cadence. If I go to spinning again should I try do lower resistance higher cadence (the resistance setting in these things is up to the individual - allowing for mixed ability class).

If i do the high resistance/low cadence will i get massive thighs??

sent you a pm andy :)

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Originally Posted by ratfink

emmi maybe check out

http://www.abcc.co.uk/Articles/turbotrn1.html

i'm recovering an ankle sprain - I haven't got a bike that will go on a turbo trainer but i recently went to a spinning class - i know you don't have time to do that regularly but if you can get to one or two they might give you some practical ideas.

that said - i've only been to one spinning class - as a non-proper cyclist (commute about 7 miles a day - no computer etc) i was slightly confused.

The session i went to - i was more limited by leg pain (lactate build up?) than aerobic capability (so although i was panting and sweating it wasn't the limiting factor).

This session seemed to do a lot of standing up in high gear (where i couldn't pedal very fast). This goes against the recommendations in this thread for high cadence. If I go to spinning again should I try do lower resistance higher cadence (the resistance setting in these things is up to the individual - allowing for mixed ability class).

If i do the high resistance/low cadence will i get massive thighs??

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I'm no expert, but just applying logic:- If you are using the bike / turbo trainer to recover from an ankle sprain ( i.e. keeping your full weight off the injury ), then if the resistance is so great that you have to stand on the pedals, you are now putting all your weight on the injury - you might as well be out running!?

hi donkey!

you're right - i've been road running a while now (and did my first off road run on sunday - with very slow descending/virtually walking down). Especially earlier (though not so bad now) the impact of running on the road made my ankle a bit sore.

so not only is there much less impact - there are also less lateral stresses - involved in biking (even when standing in the pedals) than in running (even on the road).

anyhoo - this spinning class - was something new/fun to try, that i could put full physical effort into, without the care and attention i have to expend when running at the moment.

also for a bit of variety generally (maybe even beyond recovery) - to complement running training...

....do you think it would be more useful to just run?

And to anyone else...

If I go to spinning again should I try do lower resistance higher cadence (the resistance setting in these things is up to the individual - allowing for mixed ability class).

If i do the high resistance/low cadence will i get massive thighs??

Ratfink, everything that I have read over the past 20 or so years - from coaches, physios & people who have successfully used cycling as cross-training for fell-running - points to the need for runners to 'spin' on a bike.
For the past 5 Tuesdays, I have been participating in Mintcake MTB club's Lane Quest events ( Like trailquest but on black-top ) using my cyclo-cross bike. I find that I make best progress by spinning in a lowish gear, rather than attempting to emulate the serious cyclist churning a big gear. I'm only finishing mid-way down the 'Open Men's League' but keep reminding myself that I'm a runner using these events for cross-training, not a serious cyclists looking to become a cycling champion. It has certainly helped my uphill 'jog'.

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Originally Posted by wheezing donkey

I make best progress by spinning in a lowish gear rather than attempting to emulate the serious cyclist churning a big gear

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Someone, (Eddy Merckx maybe?), when asked if it was better to spin a low gear or push a big gear, said that the trick was to spin a big gear...

anyone got any other recommendations as to which turbo trainer they use or have one to sell??? (still waiting for andy to get back to me...)

Many thanks :)

Is anyone else disappointed that this thread isn't about trainers that make you go faster? :(

I got one of these a few years ago -I think Dominion also has one- & it's been pretty good;

http://www.probikekit.com/display.php?code=A1097

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Originally Posted by wheezing donkey

Ratfink, everything that I have read over the past 20 or so years - from coaches, physios & people who have successfully used cycling as cross-training for fell-running - points to the need for runners to 'spin' on a bike.

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hey cheers donkey!

last spinning class i reduced resistance and upped the cadence - getting more out of breath (and more sweaty) and less limited by leg pain

am also rethinking my whole consideration of spinning being low risk - after managing to fall of a static exercise bike! :D i briefly forgot there was no freewheel, and the momentum of the flywheel was such that might feet stayed where they were and the pedals flew out from underthem (despite spds)! cue whole class turning round to look at me in a heap on the floor, and amazing bruise on thigh!

i managed a long off road run today with minimal ankle twinges - do you think there is still benefit from spinning (to mix things up a bit)? or would running benefit from more running.

thanks for all advice! Ended up buying a cycelops magneto.. ..seems a great piece of kit. Will update after I ve tried it a bit...

The best thing about them is they make quite good workstands.

http://www.elite-it.com/jsp/c-Prodotti.jsp?ID=0011052

I've got one of these, cost £99.99 from the LBS, been using it last week on the boat and definately made a difference when I went out cycling last night.

The best session I did was 5 min warm up, then hard going for 30 minutes, then 5 minutes steeping up through the remaining levels and then 5 min cool down, maintaining 90 rpm. Absolutely pouring with sweat through it. Generally each session was 45 - 55 mins long.

Found quite a few TT sessions on the Chester Tri site;

http://chestertri.org.uk/main/index....202&Itemid=106

Look down LHS.

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Originally Posted by david

Better still get a fixed :).

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good advice, It won't work if you don't get it fixed.

to be honest if your position on the bike is set up correctly you cant really go wrong as cycling is such a smooth sport ubless you go bananas from the first second. warm ups and downs are always a good idea with any exercise. As said above cadence is the key to efficient cycling but that really applies if you are actually moving.
You can use the turbo trainer to improve cadence or set to a hard setting will help with strength or if you are using shoes clipped to the pedals try pedalling just pulling up and not pushing down. then you will feel some muscles that you did not know existed

Just splashed out on a Cycleops Fluid 2 which seems OK although the adjustment lever is a bit clunky - or perhaps I ain't got it set up right. Stuck a magnet and Polar receiver on the rear wheel/stay (CS100) but struggling to get the signal to reach the stem. Any advice greatfully received.

I still have one tucked away in either spare room or the shed.

Has one ever almost set fire to the carpet ? I did once :o wife hardly noticed the black stripe :rolleyes:

Don't think you will be disappointed with the new turbo. I've trained on a Cycelops magneto and found it to be smooth with plenty of resistance. The secret to a meaningful turbo session is to use a fan. Even in a cold environment, without moving air your body will overheat and training at certain heart rates becomes impossible. It can even mean that your heart rate will drop.

Hope that might be helpful.

Baaarby:)

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Originally Posted by nikalas

Session Five: Stairway to Heaven (42 minutes)
3 X 6 minutes of ascending difficulty with 2 minutes recovery
One for building hill strength and mental toughness. Warm-up for ten minutes in the same way as for Session One. Shift to the big ring but select a moderate sprocket eg.22. Resistance should be at about a third of your turbos maximum. Ride moderately hard. After three minutes, shift up two gears and try to maintain the same cadence for a further two minutes. Finally shift up another two gears and ride hard for a minute out of the saddle. Drop to the small chain-ring, drop the resistance and recover with easy spinning for two minutes. Shift back to the big ring but this time perform the “3 minutes, 2 minutes, 1 minute” sequence with two more clicks of resistance. Recover for two minutes again and then work through the “3,2,1” once more again cranking it up by two clicks. Cool down as in session one. Be warned, this is a toughie.

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Oh yes its a toughie......:eek::eek:

did it this morning...loved it :D:D

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Originally Posted by Slippery Stones

Oh yes its a toughie......:eek::eek:

did it this morning...loved it :D:D

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glad you liked it!

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Originally Posted by nikalas

glad you liked it!

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yep...am going to incorporate this and the other sessions into my training on a regular basis

cheers