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Just flicking through this thread I thought I'd answer an earlier question about the climb/ ditance. Ian Nimmo used the scottish hill races for some stats teaching and he said Chapelgill came out the steepest, but then this one! Thats a lot of climbing.
:eek:
Here is the route based on the old orginal course map.
For 2007, I understand there to be a few minor changes to this route, for example the flagged run in at the end is slightly longer, and Checkpoint 1 will be on the 943m true summit of Ben Vorlich, not at the 941m trig point.
http://scottishhillracing.co.uk/Grap...-0202-main.jpg
Still only one member of an English club on the entry list (me)! :D
Surely there are more folk south of the border who are interested in this first-class mountain race?? :eek:
(My recce is now planned for this weekend - 2nd/3rd)
Trundler,
Haven't got round to entering yet, but you won't be the only Sassanach there.
Jura was a good warm up I hope.
PP.
Extremely interested but two weeks before L'Etape and day before Oxenhope straw race, maybe next year might be better for me!Quote:
Originally Posted by Trundler
Well, I didn't think I would be - still trying to drum up interest from the rest of Bowland FR.Quote:
Originally Posted by Purpleplodder
DEFINITELY won't be the first English runner home in the race either....:o
Im interested in this and live south of the border, but have been put off by the need for navigating, it looks like it would need a high level of navigating skill, would others agree? I can navigate a bit, but usually as a last resort or when lost and I think Id have to drive up and drive back in a day due to family stuff, but it looks very tempting!!
Hi Andy,Quote:
Originally Posted by Trundler
Am now entered, disappointed that there's only 13 so far.
Will try and drum up some interest in the other 'BFR' though it wouldn't help our chances if they all entered eh ?!
Looking forward to the battle to be the first Ward across the line (I got him at Jura).
Cheers,
Dave.
[quote=egor;40454]... been put off by the need for navigating, it looks like it would need a high level of navigating skill, would others agree? quote]
I guess I would say it's more about mountain craft than navigation. In half decent weather its pretty straightforward. There are important route choices and dangerous terrain but that's not navigation, you should know where you are going. This is especially true on the first two hills.
In bad weather it would be more of a test as any long mountain race would be. The danger is increased and drops are even harder to see. Navigation would then be more important on all the hills, once the race leader went up the Cobbler rather than Narnain! So having bearings to run on and then going slow enough not to go over crags would be the order of the day. Where to turn off Vorlich, how to go up Vane, how to get off Vane (clue dont descend too soon), how to go from Ime to Narnain which looks straightforward but you'll be tired, the direction off Narnain.
The most intricate navigation bit for me has always been going up Ben Vane from Sloy Dam, which has lots of little crags you weave through. In a clag this could be disorienting.
I would say people should be competent at looking after themselves in the mountains and able to make safe choices when tired rather than having spot on orienteering type navigation skills.
Ofcourse the field size makes a difference too, small field= more time on your own and no one to follow, bigger field means more to follow, though they might not make the best choices either!
Not sure if this helps and dont take my word as definitive for reasons I have outlined before. Ofcourse it would be good to be out on unfamiliar hills, which is the nice thing about a new/ reborn race. So many routes now are known backwards, so getting a classic route in a pure state is something special and only lasts a while, especially in the age of mass communication.
Hope you aren't put off if you have the mountain skills though.
Jason
Well, I've done my recce now (yesterday in the clag!! :rolleyes: ) and agree with the comments by Jason above. I took 6:32 :o carrying a heavyish sack, taking time to navigate and going quite conservatively. I'm sure there's a chunk to come off that in the race but how Billy got round it in 3:07 is beyond me!
I took the (initially sketchy) walkers path up Vorlich but did the direct descent, which was OK untill the last bit down to the dam when I fell foul of crags. I was obviously too far left - the best line is directly above the dam itself.
Climbing Vane was a nightmare. Those craglets are definitely disorienting and in the clag you can't see what's ahead to steer a line through them. I met impassible barriers and had to detour a number of times. Got there in the end though. On the descent I steered due west with the compass and managed to avoid dropping into the top of Coire Grogain, reaching the mossy col below Beinn Ime without problems.
I was fearing the climb up Ime (being the biggest of the 'Alps') but it proved straightforward on a southwesterly bearing. I think it may have been a bit easier initially to go south then climb a long grass tongue instead of crossing two or three stream gullies as I did. From Ime, a good path leaves the summit in the direction of Bealach a Mhaim but this seemed to peter out (or I simply strayed off it!). A southerly bearing brought me to the Bealach easily enough though.
I was feeling pretty strong (and pleased with myself) by here and stormed up the blazed path to Narnain in 20 mins. At the top I was thinking I'd be just outside 6 hours to the finish but the descent was an eye-opener! I wasn't prepared for the steep rock gullies through crags on the top part (very slippery and technical) or the occasional small rock band lower down and, of course it's a huge descent of over 3000ft. I was pleased with the fact that my legs coped OK with it but I'm not sure that I got the right line lower down. I followed a plain path all the way but came down to the top of the disused cableway by a line further north than I expected. When I emerged from the mist and saw Succoth directly below I was surprised; I was on the north side of the crags marked as Cruach nam Miseag on the map but I was expecting to be further south somehow. Is this the right line? :confused:
Anyway I ended up where I expected at the top of the cableway, which is super-rough and a fitting end to such a fierce route!
Some clubmates were doing Duddon while I was going round this but this route makes Duddon look like a trail race! :eek:
Hope the weather is better on race day!
AW
Hi Trundler,
Thanks for all the beta - it sounds like a grand day out.
I won't get up there before the day so that helps a lot.
Sounds much better than Duddon, I hate that second half, far too much running.
Lets hope for good weather - I've coerced my non-running climbing partner up for the weekend on the premise we'll get some climbing in on Sunday (as long as I'm not still lost or too knackered).
Looking forward to it.
PP.
Hi Dave,
A recce is definitely handy, but I'd have learned a lot more on a clear day!
Pity you're so much faster or else you could have followed me in the race!! :D
AW
Just over 3 weeks to go, and only 13 pre-entries so far:
http://www.entrycentral.com/index.php?raceID=100193
Come on guys and girls, this is the first running of this race in 15 years, and who knows whether it will happen again next year.
The record time is roughly the same as for Jura - so I imagine your Jura time will be a good benchmark.
16 entries now, so it's creeping up, but where are all the other English hard men?? :D
This one is babysitting three neices and nephews, was going to drive to Keswick and camp for the weekend and do Skiddaw on the Sunday, but now you've got me thinking.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Trundler
Any chance of entry on the day for this?
I know a couple of clubmates(Ochils) may be interested but would prefer option of seeing how the weather is on day.
i really wanted to do this one, but I'm afraid a weekend with my wife takes precedence :mad:
will book it in next year, assuming its run again.
Just been for a run up Ben Vorlich this morning - superb mountain scenery. The descent off there is steep but not too rough if you get the right line.
It was inspiring to look over to Ben Vane, Ime and Narnain. What a classic race. Get your entries in quick!!!!
I only wish I'd had that view! :rolleyes:
All was grey the day I "recced" it :mad:
Looking forward to a glorious day on the 30th :D
Trundler, link to some pics to whet your appettite....Quote:
Originally Posted by Trundler
http://oakenknowesblog.blogspot.com/...1st-april.html
Brilliant :D Appetite well and truly whetted!
Though the entry list is slowly growing and quite a few people are expressing interest but holding fire until after their next race/s to see how they feel, there are very few women entered, so far only 3! Though all entries are welcome, where's the women? :confused:
I really hope this race is a success! I've often said the (FRA) A Category for races is simply too mild and often thought that there should be a seperate championship for what I consider "proper" mountain races. An A+ category if you like. The Lakes Classics is a start but only Wasdale and Borrowdale really qualify by my criteria (which is , yes, subjective and personal). The others have too much mild terrain.
This race is the epitome of the kind I have in mind. Tough, serious, lots of climbing, not many paths, difficult terrain and real mountain craft required as well as fitness. A race that makes the term "athlete" laughably inadequate.
C'mon all you real mountain runners (male and female) get yer entries in!! :D
I Hope its a success as well, can't make it this year as I'm using most of my holidays to get time off for the Lakeland classics and this one would have used up two hols :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Trundler
Bill
With others above saying the same thing, I just hope it's still here for us all next year!:eek:
Come on Bill, gotta be worth sacrificing Langdale or Three Shires for this! ;)
It would be Wasdale :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Trundler
Bill
Just to let anyone who is still not sure about pre-entering know,
we will be taking entries on the day,
from 9-10 a.m. in the Arrochar Village Hall, behind the Pit Stop Diner. Entry will still be £7. All entry conditions as on EntryCentral still apply.
Of course I would still prefer people to pre enter, as this will give us more of an idea of numbers in this first year (and the first race I have organised), but the more the merrier, so get your club mates along, or we might be in the embarrasing position of having too much food!
If anyone is fairly certain they will run, but will enter on the day an email would be nice, so we can judge numbers.
Less than two weeks to go. :eek:
Jason
The online entry list is starting to look a bit healthier now.. :)
Yes, a few entries on the day and we should be sorted...I hope. Still few women though, whats that about?
Had an epic myself on Glen Rosa in zero visibility last weekend, so not feeling as bad about putting you all through more of the same.
See you there
Jason
Last shameless plug folks I promise. :o
Weather forecast for Arrochar on Saturday is looking ok, light showers, 17-12c, moderate visibility and light winds. Might mean some cloud on tops but sounds good for running.
Hope this tempts some more of you up here for the relaunch of a classic race. Still time to enter on line, and on the day.
Jason
Cheers Jason.
Will there be parking or, even better, camping at the start/finish area? When I went up to recce I was turned away by the snooty people at the Ardgartan camp site because my camper van is not yet fully converted!! :eek: ... :mad:
Andy W
There is car parking in the two public car parks at the top of the loch, (£1 all day). One is just opposite the Esso garage, around half a mile north of the village hall/ pit stop diner/ registration and 100m from the start of the race. I think this is the handiest place to park.
The other car park is below the Cobbler, across the head of the loch and linked to the first car park by a walking track. This will probably fill up first due to walkers, but I suppose runners will be there quite early to register and warm up for a 11 start, so maybe not an issue. Please dont park at the Diner as this is for customers.
Remember to leave time to walk to registration and then to the start for 11 a.m.
I am surprised by your reception at Ardgarten as they are usually a very good camp site and come highly recommended. I dont know what the issue with your van was but I would still recommend them to most folk, maybe phoning first. Perhaps they would have accepted your van as a car if you brought a tent? You could still still sleep where you want then?
There are a few camp sites only a small drive away, and I know some of my family camped in Balloch before and liked the site, but a simple search should throw up camping and B&Bs a plenty. Of course wild camping is allowed here too, though up the hills and with less in the way of facilities for pre race comfort.
I guess we will have to see how the race develops, but if it grows over time then there is always the option of negotiating local race day camping in the future, who knows.
I look forward to seeing you and a horde of others on the day. I will be around early and tea/ coffee will be provided from 10ish. Then soup rolls and cake after the race. So far we ae catering for 70 to cover eventualities (& marshals), but I'd love there to be more people than food. With such a long race the Diner would have planty of time to adjust numbers once you are all off.
TTFN
Jason
Hi everyone,
Given that the forecast is pretty awful for England and Wales this weekend and not bad in Scotland please keep Arrochar in mind if you're looking for a training run on Saturday.
See you there