Printable View
That guy can't do proper fell races..Jura'd kill 'im..Snowdon's just a glorified road race..Quote:
Originally Posted by dominion
go on Andi bite...race.. :-)
TBF though if I was a good enough runner I'd do road over fell, that's where the best runners are, the highest level of competition. I love the fells, but 'generally' bad runners fell run.
I still reckon the best female mountain runner in the UK is Paula, someone tempt her out onto the fells, she'd murder a race like Snowdon.
Personally speaking, yes, i love em too, and i'm bad to the bone:DQuote:
Originally Posted by IainR
I'm not sure Iain, he still wins local races in those bloody awful Puma Trailfox! Give him some decent Inov-8 Talons and who knows.... ;)
You're on the right track there Colin!!!......Quote:
Originally Posted by Swoop
as is ChrisL........
Ricky, John & Kenny...in no particular order...
Would/will take a lot of beating....
Although there are plenty of others...
Worthy of mention in the "Title Race"...
(suffice to say Lantern Pike??... Ricky's - maybe still the oldest race record,???...RR had a crack, albeit unprepared, unfinished business there....? very closely followed by AndyS at Langdale that same year....
must have been something in the water that September/October?!!?)
Blind Bob Pender the daredevil descender or no legs Joe Puddin of Dent
they where mentioned in Up n Down years ago somehow i dont think there real!
Teasdale /Wild /Beard/Bland
The original question was "in your opinion whos the best fell runner / mountain runner ever?"Quote:
Originally Posted by crowhill
and Mr Wyatt was thrown in.
Some have aluded to the distance issue. Surley it is almost impossible to nail it down.
Who would be the greatest athlete? Usain Bolt or Gebresallassie - they cannot really be measured fairly.
Longer fells shouldn't have more credibility than shorter stuff.
Surprised Anna Pichrtova hasn't been mentioned yet.
Good shout for Martin Jones earlier TomCee - back to back World Titles as well as 4th in the Commonwealth Games Track 10K - great versatility and quality!
As someone has said it is all about the criteria.Quote:
Originally Posted by Witton Park
Fell running and mountain running are apples and oranges.
So the question "who is the greatest apple/orange" does not have any real meaning.
So Anna Pichrtova is indisputably the best female mountain runner but she won't cope with Wasdale whereas on the fells Angela Mudge walks on water but does not have Anna's leg speed.
Anyone that knows anything about rugged fell running knows that BB is one of a kind and that eg Kenny followed him round and then out-kicked him towards the line- and Kenny of course ended up doing road marathons.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dominion
Is there something we haven't been told? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Luv Shack
Yes. I believe he rides his bike nowadays.Don't know whether he still runs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Swoop
Re Jeff Norman: I did ask him some years ago who stood out in his era. He said that the best climber was Harry Walker and the best descender Andy Styan.
Jeff Norman achieved a lot through his career, and it's good to see him still running.
I well remember back in the old days of the original Chew Valley Race days that one of our club members who had no idea how to read a map or use a compass had already notched up a couple of wins in this race and for some strange reason could find his way around the course with no problem. Bob Ashworth was his name and Billy latched on to him and basically followed him around as the race was new to him. As they entered the finish field with Bob getting ready for the sprint Billy handed the race to him in the knowledge that Bob had shown him around the route and it would be unfair for him to take the victory. Billy was a highly competitive runner and that single gesture summed it up for me and another reason why Billy takes the honours.
As for Martin Jones wasnt he the second best fellrunner in Ramsbottom
(Dave Lewis lived in Rammy at the same time as Martin)
If I turned the title round a bit and said, best runner who'd run on fells.
Ron Hill??????????????????
Anyway, he's my inspiration.
Why you not start with the correct answer "Billy Bland" and then phrase the question to fit the answer?Quote:
Originally Posted by Flightless Bird
Knew that would get a reaction:D.....You're right..Billy Bland, but Ron Hill is still a great runner.Quote:
Originally Posted by Filippo Acciaiuoli
Like your point though. I wonder how many different questions would have been posed if a thread was started
"ANSWER BILLY BLAND NOW WHATS THE QUESTION?":confused:
Could try that idea for any of the forumites!:DQuote:
Originally Posted by Flightless Bird
Might be an eye opener!!:eek:
Which fellrunner is hidden in this anagram?
bill byland
Most of the younger ( speedier? ) forumites ( and probably the lad who started the thread ), who have posted different to King Billy, have probably failed to make the subtle differentiation between 'fell runner' and 'fell racer'. There are some fast young lads around who win races and set course records (racers), but Billy did far more than that - he was a consumate fell runner.
Jeff Norman has an incredible record in the 3 Peaks, only man ever to go sub 2hrs 30m and without the benefit of Walshes or Inov8 - One year he won it wearing a pair of Tiger Cubs (which were very thinly soled road shoes)
Jeff, like Ron Hill, spread his talents onto the roads whee he went onto represent GB in the marathon at the Olympics.
As great as Ron Hill undoubtedly was, I hate the fact that the first thing mentioned alongside his name is usually:Quote:
Originally Posted by Flightless Bird
"he's ran everyday for the past __________ years"
Now, I'm sure this is not of the big man's doing, but I find it particularly annoying. What constitutes a run? is a 50 metre jog to the car a run?
If you're ill or injured (he's bound to have been over the course of the past ________ years) then surely it'd be sensible to take a day off. I'd much prefer people to first offer some of his outstanding achievements rather than this banal fact.
As regards, World Mountain Running, it must have been easier to win the WMRT before the fast road guys and Africans started coming into it.....thats not to decry the achievements of Martin Jones or Sarah Rowell or Tommy Murray, just a fact.
I'd certainly rate Robin Bryson (Snowdon summit record holder) as among the very best climbers in the world ever- he's won Matterhorn, been 4th in World's twice (allegedly led into the final 1km of one of the races).......the thought of him reaching the summit of Snowdon 2mins 30 - 3mins quicker than Andi Jones has ever, is a scary thought. He certainly wouldn't have had Andi's road speed.
John Lenihan also Irish who won the WMRT at least once i think, was an incredible descender in his day....
Kenny Stuart sounds like he was some pup mind......and clearly Billy Bland's long distance crown is quite safe
So have we whittled it down to a shortlist for a poll yet? :D
There seems to be a fair amount of emotionalism on here. The thread title is best fell runner ever? Now the term can conjure up all sorts of ideas. So perhaps forumites could tell us all how they define 'best.'
Is it the one who wins the most races? Is it the one who sets the most records? Is it the one with the greatest power to weight(if it is Andrew Schofield would be in the running)? Or is it the one who would win the race if they all lined up on the start line in peak condition? Or indeed any other criteria.
Just wondering!
Quote:
Originally Posted by christopher leigh
Aye line them all up at Borrowdale or Wasdale with the clag right down an see who wins ;)
Or they could all go round the BG :rolleyes:
No lets do all three in the same year :D
There is something awe-inspiring about a BG in 13 hours and 53 minutes.
Keswick to Threlkeld - 2 hours 13 minutes
Threlkeld to Dunmail - 2 hours 41 minutes
Dunmail to Wasdale - 3 hours 43 minutes
Wasdale to Honister - 3 hours and 9 minutes
Honister to Keswick - 1 hour 47 minutes
And running the road section at 6 minute mile pace.
That's greatness in my opinion, and Billy would get my vote.
it's on another level dont get me wrong,billy is something else,but there is more to fell running than the bob graham round,and the lake districtQuote:
Originally Posted by BGSec
yes it is true but the majority of propa fell races are in the lakes eg borrowdale,langdale,wasdale,buttermere not all the time but very often and alot of the best fell runners from there as well eg billy bland,kenny stuart,joss naylor,hugh symonds ect :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleeter
Nothing much changes. I think you and I had a similar discussion a couple of years ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by IainR
Because it is so hypothetical it is pointless.
The best fell runners are the ones who beat the other fell runners, not the premiership footballers.
Good point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleeter
There are several fabulous runners who would never dream of tackling a BG or the long Lakes races in the same way that Usain Bolt might not be planning on doing a marathon soon.
I can't believe that anyone hasn't mentioned either Fred Reeves or Tommy Sedgwick yet. This discussion isn't complete without them.
It is a good point there Harry H.
I think that (say) Fred Reeves' record at Grasmere which is his biggest moment is great.
Rob Jebb ran 10 seconds slower in recent years - the time you and I battled our way to the top of the hill and you left me on the way down. In a two mile race, and assuming similar conditions 10 seconds is a massive difference.
Fred Reeves and Tommy Sedgewick probably trained exclusively for those kinds of races. For Rob I guess it was just another challenge amongst all kind of running and cycling races and in the context of what he did over the season it was fabulous.
There is too little appreciation of short steep fell races; by that I mean they are a bit marginal in the calendar or indeed not in the FRA calendar at all.
A poll would be complicated - let's get them on Harry Hill's Burp for a fight:DQuote:
Originally Posted by dominion
I totally agree with this Harry.Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry H Howgill
On his day, Colin Donnelly was invincible on both short steep races (e.g. Chapelgill) and long events (his unbelievable Welsh 3,000's). And he's been at it a long time. Was it 86 or 87 when he bamboozled Rod Pilbeam at Moel Hebog to take his first British Championship? I know BB has the emotional vote coz he comes from 'native' fell running country but as an all round winner and for the duration of his prowess, I still stand by Colin.:cool:
im glad to see im not the only one who thinks like this ido think the fra seriously consider some short steep classics as championships :DQuote:
Originally Posted by chris smale
I volunteer myself as the Worst fell runner in the world, can i have a prize
I'll buy you a pint if you wantQuote:
Originally Posted by sirgordonzola
I prefer cake, which might help with the fact that im the worst.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleeter
Bring on the Lads leap to prove the point.
Quite right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleeter
But I think that this achievement on top of all the other remarkable records, results and performances which Billy achieved in his career in all sorts of race types and lengths gives him my vote.
There is more to Billy Bland than 'the bob graham round,and the lake district'. He has excelled in all parts of the country.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleeter
Yiannis
Its always hard to make these sort of comparisons.Its tried with boxing and football.When I first started doing a bit...:rolleyes:,ok,little bit!,Billy Bland's dominance was coming to an end and Colin Donnelly was in his pomp,I think Kenny Stuart had left the 'scene' more or less by then.The thing about Donnelly was that he went onto everyone else's patch and annihilated the local champion and more often than not broke the record.In the late 80's early 90's there were a lot of good runners around,yet he would turn up at their races and beat them,he was simply outstanding.The only real competition outside the lakes for Colin was Keith Anderson,who I remember reading could virtually fly downhill.
Taking everything into account,it has to be Colin Donnelly,he is the best fellrunner ever.
Iain a few years ago I'd have agreed with you but the standard of road running is so shit now in this country, has the standard on the fells dropped at the same rate if at all?Quote:
Originally Posted by IainR
You look at half marathon results now they're won in good times by Africans but hardly any Brits seem to break 70 minutes or 31 mins for 10K! In the 80s (90s even) no one would have heard of you if you hadn't run faster than that!
I invite someone to start a thread whereby the stattos can decide whether fell standards have dropped. Meanwhile rather than spend time on the Forum I'm going to take a leaf out of Billy Burns' book and GO ON FACEBOOK :)
Someone said it depends on the criteria. Absolutely, do you go on who was the best on their day or who's been the most consistent over a period of time? Are significant wins against other great runners more important than breaking (and keeping..) records? Granted the two may be one of the same, as with Andy Styan's Langdale record, Wild's at Burnsall and Kenny's at Ennerdale and the Ben. Performances must surely be considered over the full range; championships, classic races (long and short) and long distance rounds, they all have their place under the umbrella of 'fell running'.Quote:
Originally Posted by Toots
One person's view on how the above criteria should be 'weighted' is always going to differ slightly from that of another. All of the runners mentioned are legends! But based on all these criteria I find it hard to argue against Donnelly too.
I'm surprised that John Wild isn't more highly rated on this thread, he wasn't around for very long compared to the likes of Donnelly and Holmes but was pretty invincible at his best and has, I believe, ran Ben Nevis only ONE SECOND slower than Stuart. No one ever mentions that, and when you're talking seconds who is to say they finish the race in the same place every year? It finishes in a field next to no obvious landmark, do they get a tape measure out?!
I wonder if any of the aforementioned themselves are bothered about which one of them was the best?