Does God exist?

couldn't really give a hoot

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Originally Posted by Margarine

Science is a point of view.

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I agree and religion is also a point of view. It seems they both loose credibility when folk what to make science into a religion or religion into a science (creationists?).

And the Lord spake unto the philosopher, "I am the Lord thy God, and I am the source of all that is good. Why does thy secular moral philosophy ignore me?"

And the philosopher spake unto the Lord, "To answer I must first ask you some questions. You command us to do what is good. But is it good because you command it, or do you command it because it is good?"

"Ur," said the Lord. "It's good because I command it?"

"The wrong answer, surely, your mightyness! If the good is only good because you say it is so, then you could, if you wished, make it so that torturing children was good. But that would be absurd, wouldn't it?"

"Of course!" replied the Lord. "I tested thee and thou hast made me pleased. What was the other choice again?"

"You choose what is good because it is good. But that shows quite clearly that goodness does not depend on you at all. So we don't need to study God to study the good."

"Even so," spake the Lord, "you've got to admit I've written some pretty good text books on the subject..."

I don't believe in God, will do when i meet him, not into blind faith.
Interestingly, why should he be a he, he was a she in the film, Dogma, and was the spitting image of Alanis Morrissette, oh god, i may have spelt that wrong:o

Atheists - We don't let God bother us!

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Originally Posted by merrylegs

I don't believe in God, will do when i meet him, not into blind faith.
Interestingly, why should he be a he, he was a she in the film, Dogma, and was the spitting image of Alanis Morrissette, oh god, i may have spelt that wrong:o

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But sounded just like Joan Osborne :D

I didn't like any of those 60s supergroups, all that bloody twiddling on guitar and daft shirts.

Have asked him many times if me Dad's ok, never got a reply, once got diverted to a call centre in Bangladesh:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Derby Tup

Here we go, the big question - does God exist?

My opinion - of course there's a God. Not a bearded Joss Naylor-like figure in a big chair wrapped in a sheet but definitely some higher-power creator / destroyer force ;)

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hmm good question DT but if CT carrys on annoying me i will tell you sooner rather than later cos me and him won't be in court we will be waiting for the gods of hell :p

got to go waiting for the liquor store to open..

I drove past one of those church advertising boards the other day. It said:

"Jesus - comforting the disturbed and disturbing the comfortable."

Bizarre eh? :confused::confused:

Not at all...thats a fair summary of what goes on. Have you not heard of Catholic guilt?? Once in its grip, its got you for life unless you try very hard to get over it!

I think I must be an apathetic dyslexic atheist.

I can't be bothered to believe in a dog.

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Originally Posted by Wheeze

Not at all...thats a fair summary of what goes on. Have you not heard of Catholic guilt?? Once in its grip, its got you for life unless you try very hard to get over it!

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Not a great sales pitch is it?!

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Originally Posted by Wheeze

Not at all...thats a fair summary of what goes on. Have you not heard of Catholic guilt?? Once in its grip, its got you for life unless you try very hard to get over it!

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Bloomin' right that, still mentally scarred after all those years as an altar boy.... :(

As long as its just mental scars, you got off lightly!

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Originally Posted by Wheeze

As long as its just mental scars, you got off lightly!

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Aye. Was an altar boy from 7yrs, kept waiting to hear a big booming voice from the heavens. When it didn't happen (of course) it got me thinking... :confused:

Mind you, I did read that dodgy book "Holy Blood Holy Grail" when I was about 12 and that put lots o' ideas in my head about the whole church thing. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Swoop

I think I must be an apathetic dyslexic atheist.

I can't be bothered to believe in a dog.

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always knew you would be barking up the wrong tree :p

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Originally Posted by marty mcfly

I drove past one of those church advertising boards the other day. It said:

"Jesus - comforting the disturbed and disturbing the comfortable."

Bizarre eh? :confused::confused:

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I like the motto of Christian Aid "We believe in life before death." That's how most Christians see their faith, as something positive that brings about good. When you get into an anti-God groove it's like it's open season on everything we believe. Are we not to be credited with any respectability at all?
My daughter asked me when she was little what God was. I said that I believed that God was a principle (to me a feeling) that everything was gonna be alright. That's at the bottom of my faith: it's just a hunch, that running through reality like Blackpool through a stick of rock is "everything's going to be alright". Just can't shake it out of me whatever goes wrong in my life. Nor will any of you clever dicks.

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Originally Posted by Guick Dotto

"everything's going to be alright"

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Is that what you were thinking on your avatar picture :D

Well said GD (the bit about the dicks, I mean).

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Originally Posted by MOUNTAIN MAN

Isn't Dawkins a VERIFICATIONIST - he holds a "scientific mindset" which rejects anything not empirically verifiable. Problem is that tends to make everything a bit dull and boring: it's all the things that can't be verified that give life meaning.

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I was reading something today about the Bahá'í faith, which talks about a harmony between religion and science.

It looks quite nice.

NO!

All I wanted to say was no, but post have to be more than 5 characters apparently, I guess I could've thrown on a few more exclamation marks.

Of course not.

Yes.
For a simple reason
At races with crap prizes i do rubbish and at races with good prizes i do well.

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Originally Posted by IanDarkpeak

good stuff CL but surely you are just playing with words, If something is Finite it has to have an end or at least boundaries, if it has these there must be "something" on the other side. The word universe is just a word not a true definition as we don't know our universe is everything:confused:

I'd like to add I don't know the answer and I'm not on either side of the fence but just love to discuss this one.

Much harder to prove than is there life out side our solar system

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Ian, words are all we have, and like numbers they have specific meanings. The people who invented such words linked them to certain facts, and we have no right to change something that doesn't belong to us.

The universe is ALL existing matter. To say there is something outside the universe is to say "everything is here, but over there is some more."

It's an oxymoron. A bit like saying 2+2=5.

The only use for the term 'infinite' is in mathematics. Even then it doesn't imply that things can go on for ever and ever. It's just a mental device.

Now you could say "well we reached Pluto, surely something comes after that." That claim would be an act of faith, because they'd be no evidence.

Let's say there was something after that, we didn't know about. Well that doesn't imply there is something after that that(if you get my drift). It's a bit like counting numbers. You can count as many as you wish, but you'll have to stop at some point and when you do they'll be another number to follow.

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Originally Posted by christopher leigh

Ian, words are all we have, and like numbers they have specific meanings. The people who invented such words linked them to certain facts, and we have no right to change something that doesn't belong to us.

The universe is ALL existing matter. To say there is something outside the universe is to say "everything is here, but over there is some more."

It's an oxymoron. A bit like saying 2+2=5.

The only use for the term 'infinite' is in mathematics. Even then it doesn't imply that things can go on for ever and ever. It's just a mental device.

Now you could say "well we reached Pluto, surely something comes after that." That claim would be an act of faith, because they'd be no evidence.

Let's say there was something after that, we didn't know about. Well that doesn't imply there is something after that that(if you get my drift). It's a bit like counting numbers. You can count as many as you wish, but you'll have to stop at some point and when you do they'll be another number to follow.

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That's all very well and good Chris, but does God exist, the question remains:confused:

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Originally Posted by christopher leigh

Ian, words are all we have, and like numbers they have specific meanings. The people who invented such words linked them to certain facts, and we have no right to change something that doesn't belong to us.

The universe is ALL existing matter. To say there is something outside the universe is to say "everything is here, but over there is some more."

It's an oxymoron. A bit like saying 2+2=5.

The only use for the term 'infinite' is in mathematics. Even then it doesn't imply that things can go on for ever and ever. It's just a mental device.

Now you could say "well we reached Pluto, surely something comes after that." That claim would be an act of faith, because they'd be no evidence.

Let's say there was something after that, we didn't know about. Well that doesn't imply there is something after that that(if you get my drift). It's a bit like counting numbers. You can count as many as you wish, but you'll have to stop at some point and when you do they'll be another number to follow.

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Can you simplyfy that

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Originally Posted by TurboTom

Can you simplyfy that

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Words come easy to Christopher Leigh, some think him a pain, but i think he's an intelligent, thoughtful man and like reading his posts:cool:

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Originally Posted by merrylegs

Words come easy to Christopher Leigh, some think him a pain, but i think he's an intelligent, thoughtful man and like reading his posts:cool:

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what does it mean though?

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Originally Posted by christopher leigh

Ian, words are all we have, and like numbers they have specific meanings. The people who invented such words linked them to certain facts, and we have no right to change something that doesn't belong to us.

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Nonsense, Chris.

The people who invented such words are all dead.

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Originally Posted by TurboTom

what does it mean though?

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:confused::confused::confused:

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Originally Posted by Guick Dotto

I like the motto of Christian Aid "We believe in life before death." That's how most Christians see their faith, as something positive that brings about good. When you get into an anti-God groove it's like it's open season on everything we believe. Are we not to be credited with any respectability at all?
My daughter asked me when she was little what God was. I said that I believed that God was a principle (to me a feeling) that everything was gonna be alright. That's at the bottom of my faith: it's just a hunch, that running through reality like Blackpool through a stick of rock is "everything's going to be alright". Just can't shake it out of me whatever goes wrong in my life. Nor will any of you clever dicks.

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Guick I think we've been here before!

My best friend is a christian, and I find him to be quite rational in most respects. In fact more rational than most non-believers, including some scientists, particularly those who have a mysticism all of their own.

I think it's called statistics.

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Originally Posted by christopher leigh

Ian, words are all we have, and like numbers they have specific meanings. The people who invented such words linked them to certain facts, and we have no right to change something that doesn't belong to us.

The universe is ALL existing matter. To say there is something outside the universe is to say "everything is here, but over there is some more."

It's an oxymoron. A bit like saying 2+2=5.

The only use for the term 'infinite' is in mathematics. Even then it doesn't imply that things can go on for ever and ever. It's just a mental device.

Now you could say "well we reached Pluto, surely something comes after that." That claim would be an act of faith, because they'd be no evidence.

Let's say there was something after that, we didn't know about. Well that doesn't imply there is something after that that(if you get my drift). It's a bit like counting numbers. You can count as many as you wish, but you'll have to stop at some point and when you do they'll be another number to follow.

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I can see reason in most of that CL and I'd Agree....I think...;):D

But as you say it doesn't prove it one way or the other it will always be an act of faith until some one can which I doubt they ever will so this could go on forever and ever and ever and..........:o

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Originally Posted by TurboTom

Can you simplyfy that

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y=x+1

where y is infinity and x is the highest number you can think of.

does that sound about right????:p

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Originally Posted by IanDarkpeak

I can see reason in most of that CL and I'd Agree....I think...;):D

But as you say it doesn't prove it one way or the other it will always be an act of faith until some one can which I doubt they ever will so this could go on forever and ever and ever and..........:o



y=x+1

where y is infinity and x is the highest number you can think of.

does that sound about right????:p

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reminds me of my gcses. I think i get it.n

Back to the original premise of this question - "does God exist"

Which God are we refering to?

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Originally Posted by Mud

Nonsense, Chris.

The people who invented such words are all dead.

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Their bodies may well be dead, but their words and definitions still live.

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Originally Posted by christopher leigh

My best friend is a christian, and I find him to be quite rational in most respects.

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I'm very rational and open minded and would like to believe there is something else after we die, untill then i will try to live a decent life and walk a straight line and see what happens when my time is up, would love to see my father again someday, but not yet, i need to do my own time as a father;)

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Originally Posted by TurboTom

reminds me of my gcses. I think i get it.n

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Tom read my post again and try and digest. It's not a wind up.

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Originally Posted by christopher leigh

Tom read my post again and try and digest. It's not a wind up.

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I understand it more now.

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Originally Posted by merrylegs

I'm very rational and open minded and would like to believe there is something else after we die, untill then i will try to live a decent life and walk a straight line and see what happens when my time is up, would love to see my father again someday, but not yet, i need to do my own time as a father;)

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Yes it's a responsibility I wouldn't like to have. I mean the children. Not in this day and age.