10,000ft a week

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Originally Posted by Steve Zodiac

Just read your links Andy D - (minus the snazzy shorts!) I naturally came to lunges based on passed weight lifting experience for other sports, I haven't tried them specifically for running yet, but may experiment when I feel I'm not getting enough ascent/decent in to see if it benefits me - Have you used lunges or any of the techniques in your articles to supplement or replace hill ascent/descent and if so - did you notice the difference?

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It's hard to tell but as a Londoner, I dont have easy access to any decent hills so when I trained for UTMB in 2007 I supplemented running up and down hampstead heath with repeats of the 8 flights of stairs in my apartment block and lunges in the gym. Who knows what made the difference but I managed under 29 hours.

My personal opinion is if you have access to hills and you want to improve your ability to handle running down hills then you should run down hills, however one or two sessions of lunges a week only takes 20-30 minutes and can significantly improve the eccentric ability of your quads not to mention increase the strength in your glutes and improve your overall running efficiency.

Dynamic lunges are even better than normal lunges.

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Originally Posted by ZootHornRollo

whilst I'm sure it's sage advice, I don't think the 10,000ft / week is like a necessary rule

people who don't live near hills (like me) won't get this amount in every week, or even most weeks

but I've been encouraged by messages from people who've managed to focus their training differently: long weekends of progressively bigger days in the hills building up to the attempt for instance.

what matters to me is whether I can do, say, a 45-mile 18,000ft day, or the Fellsman, in a reasonable time - if I can then I'd hope the BG was within reach.

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While 10,000' a week in training for the BG or similar may pretty much guarantee the level of fitness needed, there are lots of factors that can still mean an unsuccessful attempt in spite of any amount of training (eg weather, stomach problems preventing eating/drinking, poor navigation, mental factors).

That level of training definitely isn't necessary... my 22.30 BG in 2007 was based on missing nearly all February with flu, then putting in half a dozen long runs (of 4-7 hours each) in the 3 months to June, including just two weeks of more than 10,000', one of which featured the Old County Tops race.

The success criteria for me were:

• eating and drinking a lot (I ate so much that I had to stop twice for a cr*p)
• having dry but cool weather (no heat or navigation problems)
• excellent company (people I felt really at ease with, especially important on the last couple of legs when it gets psychologically harder)
• the psychological benefit of every leg being on or quicker than schedule
• a couple of Ibuprofen at Wasdale
• clean socks and vaseline at the start of each leg
• and Natalie's chocolate banana cake

So ZHR, I'm sure you'll have no problem in terms of fitness if you can build up to a couple of the sort of long days you have planned in the run up.

ZHR I endorse everything said by BFMK. I think its possible to get too hung up on an idea that you have to do a certain number of miles or a ceratin amount of climbing every week for n number of weeks or you wont do it. I had a friend who did it in 2007 through just a few months prep, mainly in the dark Peak and certainlyno where near 10,000 feet weekly. he only recc'd the route a few weeks before hand. I failed my first attempt mainly due to inexperience and lack of prep mainly on the diet front and too little hill training. A year later nailed it in 22 .20. I did concerntrate more on up and down hilling than previously but got no where near 10000 a week. I knew the route like the back of my hand by then and tried to put in a few 10/11 hour days in lakes and Wales during April and may but probably only 5 all in all. The rest i slogged up and down Kinder nearer to home or repped hills on the Dorset coast near to hwere my bro lives. the rest was sheer psych and determination. I visualised alot about what it would be like to finnish and used that to get me through diffcult phases. i think the key is be staedy and never give up and as BFMW says its a real psychological boost to be a bit ahead of your schedule so work to a 22 hour time table and you will by your self that time and feel good about it.

I gather you live in South. If I did i'd hit the downs and rep and rep, up and down and forget the undulating distsnce runs. good luck

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Originally Posted by andydubois

It's hard to tell but as a Londoner, I dont have easy access to any decent hills so when I trained for UTMB in 2007 I supplemented running up and down hampstead heath with repeats of the 8 flights of stairs in my apartment block and lunges in the gym. Who knows what made the difference but I managed under 29 hours.

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What about an early morning run up some of those down esculators in the underground. plenty of climbing there,

What ever happened to London Urban fell race?? 1st April I believe

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Originally Posted by Corniceman

ZHR I endorse everything said by BFMK. I think its possible to get too hung up on an idea that you have to do a certain number of miles or a ceratin amount of climbing every week for n number of weeks or you wont do it. I had a friend who did it in 2007 through just a few months prep, mainly in the dark Peak and certainlyno where near 10,000 feet weekly. he only recc'd the route a few weeks before hand. I failed my first attempt mainly due to inexperience and lack of prep mainly on the diet front and too little hill training. A year later nailed it in 22 .20. I did concerntrate more on up and down hilling than previously but got no where near 10000 a week. I knew the route like the back of my hand by then and tried to put in a few 10/11 hour days in lakes and Wales during April and may but probably only 5 all in all. The rest i slogged up and down Kinder nearer to home or repped hills on the Dorset coast near to hwere my bro lives. the rest was sheer psych and determination. I visualised alot about what it would be like to finnish and used that to get me through diffcult phases. i think the key is be staedy and never give up and as BFMW says its a real psychological boost to be a bit ahead of your schedule so work to a 22 hour time table and you will by your self that time and feel good about it.

I gather you live in South. If I did i'd hit the downs and rep and rep, up and down and forget the undulating distsnce runs. good luck

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thanks for the advice and encouragement, and bfmk too :)

at the moment I am doing undulating distance runs every Saturday: was going to try a 32 miler tomorrow, further than I've ever run before.

I was working on the basis that in between getting to 'real hills' I should just try to run for as far (or for as long a time) as possible - maybe getting it up to 6-7 hours.

But you think hill reps would be more useful?

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Originally Posted by ZootHornRollo

thanks for the advice and encouragement, and bfmk too :)

at the moment I am doing undulating distance runs every Saturday: was going to try a 32 miler tomorrow, further than I've ever run before.

I was working on the basis that in between getting to 'real hills' I should just try to run for as far (or for as long a time) as possible - maybe getting it up to 6-7 hours.

But you think hill reps would be more useful?

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I think you need to vary it Adrian, have you set a date yet? I'm doing both hill rep sessions and long days out and the hill rep sessions vary too. Somedays they are long hills with varied reps i.e fast and short, long and steady etc others it's the same hill but a lot shorter but many more reps and where I can't get out (I live in a very flat place too) I improvise all the time. This can be 350 stair reps whilst the kids eat their tea or an hour on maximum incline on the treadmill whilst it's snowing outside (last tuesday!)

I can't run long days on both weekend days because of the family etc but invariably sundays are the days where I'll get the hours and the steady climbs in the legs and of course mean a drive off somewhere to do that.

From my own point of view and whether this applies to you or not I feel well no I KNOW I can keep running for 6 or 7 or 8 etc hours on the flat or slightly undulating (and have done ultra's in the past to know that for sure) but feel yes there is a need to get some climbing in the legs for sure. Having not done a BG (yet) I don't know how much the 10,000ft a week applies but I loved Cornicemans post and tbh it made me feel a whole lot better as have been under a cloud of doom these last couple of weeks about it all - I think the bad weather hampering plans has contributed vastly to that. But, I do know if I don't train to climb hills then I ain't gonna be able to climb hills no matter how much my mind tells me otherwise!!!

emmilou, don't forget you've done an Ironman and that blooming RRR50 on a wretched day. You can and have run all day. Its all about the climbing and descent ;)

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Originally Posted by Derby Tup

emmilou, don't forget you've done an Ironman and that blooming RRR50 on a wretched day. You can and have run all day. Its all about the climbing and descent ;)

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eggggsackerly! like ZHR though, it's pan flat from outta the front door :mad:

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Originally Posted by emmilou

eggggsackerly! like ZHR though, it's pan flat from outta the front door :mad:

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Em, just so i know for - future:rolleyes:

Where are you getting you climbing and general off-road runs done?

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Originally Posted by Al Fowler

Em, just so i know for - future:rolleyes:

Where are you getting you climbing and general off-road runs done?

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where ever my little golf takes me!