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I have absolutely no interest in it as a championship race. I just want to run it, having only been able to do the weather shortened course last year (the first time I ran it). I also want to run (funnily enough) the 3P, Borrowdale and the Ben this year :rolleyes:.
There's nowt wrong with wanting to run those races, but if you start a thread reminding people to enter a race which you know is going to be popular then you have to acknowledge that you are contributing to its popularity and the speed that it fills up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stolly
I just hope that Scoffer and co. feel able to go back to EOD next year. Pre-entries are a pain, you go to lots of trouble to make sure your entry is in on time and then twist your ankle or get a cold the day before and end up as a no show.
As for those who are complaining of a lack of instant acceptance into the race, just think of the poor organisers who have to go through 500+ entries and check whether people are lying about the races they have done (there will be some). You are expecting an awfull lot if you expect them to go through all the entries in less than a couple of weeks given that it is nearly two months until the race.
Well hardly think it's whinging just to state an opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by No map, no compass
and your quote, because it is a championship race. I do plenty of other races to though. But this will be my 'other' counter, with Eilio, Mournes and Blackstone, as I am sea for Durisdeer then UTMB clashes with Dufton.
OK I'm far from a championship contender but I've been in the top 50 in all 3 championship races of the past 12 months, so have picked up points.
I don't see why people who have done B'dale before should get preference over other committed fell runners. ANyway we'll see, hopefully we should hear soon.
Does highlight though why reducing the number of 'counter' races will cause such issues.
A reason why OLE is far better than postal entries for pre-entry races, far less work for the organiser. Again though that's hardly a complaint I'm just stating a fact in response to Mappers point.Quote:
Originally Posted by No map, no compass
How can you using online entries to speed up the process of checking the details of races done though?
You just put a web link and check, it would be far quicker than checking off a handwritten form.Quote:
Originally Posted by jmacewan
Like on the UTMB and many other races which have such pre-requisites and OLE.
I don't think you get preference if you have just done it once or twice, but there are a lot of people who do Borrowdale and other races year after year and it is these people who keep some races going for the freeloaders who only do the harder races when they are championship races. It is quite right that someone who has done Borrowdale every year for years should get preference over someone who has never done it before when it is over subscribed - you would be pissed off if your local race was a championship one year and you couldn't get an entry even though you had done it each year for the past ten years keeping it going when only a handful of runners turned up.Quote:
Originally Posted by IainR
Anyway this is going off the thread, and we've debated OLE many times on here, and in Fell runner, with fell runners being such a progressive bunch there was the expected dragging of heals, but most other running disciplines have welcomed OLE with open arms. The more races that go OLE the better IMO.
While local runners do keep races going, runners who visit another area for champs races are hardly free loading! I race weekly in Snowdonia, probably monthly in other areas, so hardly think I'm (or anyone else) is a free-loader.Quote:
Originally Posted by No map, no compass
Last week was Duddon, but I did Carneddau instead, the week before I did Jura, when cader was my local race, with so many races in a calendar of course people will do championship races in areas/or races, they haven't done before.
And no, I've not got into the Snowdon race in the past 2 years, and Snowdon is literally outside my back door. I wasn't that bothered, I certainly didn't claim other outsiders to be free loaders. The first time I only moved back to the UK just before the race, and las year didn't try to enter until I'd done the WHW and felt OK, by then it was too late. My fault, not the 'outsiders'.Quote:
Originally Posted by No map, no compass
I take it you didn't do Angus Munro last year then?Quote:
Originally Posted by IainR
Something like 115 finishers in a British Champs Race.
It was towards the end of the series - most people had done Duddon to count as their long counter.
I'm not complaining as I got the most points I'm ever likely to get in a champs race. Though of course there will be dissenting voices who said that it was thin at the sharp end because no-one could be bothered to go - it clashed with Wasdale too. To be honest I don't care, you have to be in it to win it.
A friend of mine has set out her stall to do all the Lakeland Classics series this year. She was very concerned with getting her entry in for this last Saturday morning when she should have been preparing for Duddon. I hope she gets in as it would be a great achievement to do all 6 and a shame to miss one of them. She asked me whether putting a note on the form might help her cause, but I suppose everyone will have their own sob story. How could you expect Len to prioritise one person's entry over another?
I feel the FRA committee do their best to make the champs a fair and varied series. I think it is important that the top runners should be given every chance to complete the series to find out who really is 'fell runner of the year' and that the races used are on good courses with the necessary facilities. Could some of the races you mentioned cope with 500 runners, their families and spectators descending on them?
Re Angus, Yes I did. Good race. Angus could have easily coped with double IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by Purpleplodder
Some races can yes (cope with 300 runners).
I agree re the committee, I just think reducing it to 3 (or was it 4) will just cause more issues.
Not sure here. One option may be to make the cut offs harder there by hopefully raising the standard of the field, bit of an elitist approach though which I'm not sure is the way fell running should go, as it's always been such an inclusive sport.Quote:
Originally Posted by Purpleplodder
The advantage of OLE is that there is no prioritising needed, it's first in, no local advantage that the postal system offers.
Sorry to bring it off thread again but I've not debated OLE.Quote:
Anyway this is going off the thread, and we've debated OLE many times on here, and in Fell runner, with fell runners being such a progressive bunch there was the expected dragging of heals, but most other running disciplines have welcomed OLE with open arms. The more races that go OLE the better IMO.
I organise a race in Scotland (Maddy Moss Mash) but really could not see how having OLE would help at all. And from a couple of races that I've done this year with OLE I'm still not quite sure what the great advantages are. There have still been people required to distribute numbers etc. to entrants, probably exactly the same number of people that might be required if they were running an entry on the day sytem. So what exactly are the great benefits of OLE?
what about the elitism of needing the technology for on line entries ?Quote:
Originally Posted by IainR
I know of a certain elite fell runner who struggles to write text messages, never mind including web links to his previous results for the benefit of the scrutineers !!!
and what would happen if a number of such races need to be entered during lambing time ???
ignore the last one, I'm just playing devil's advocate here!
This was debated in Fellrunner a few issues back.Quote:
Originally Posted by jmacewan
The obvious ones are no money handling, it's all automated so less work for the organiser, runners just pick up numbers, no postage required, either in entering or informing successful runners.
If there's so little advantage why do you think most other disciplines have already gone that way? Orienteering, road racing, mountain marathons (I think). Fell running seems quite slow in following suit, which is a petty. Afterall it costs to use OLE so unless it's a great marketing gimic it must offer advantages?
Well you could say the same about Postal entries, what if someone's illiterate?Quote:
Originally Posted by Purpleplodder
Surely they have a mate who could type it in for them?
Entering OL is far quicker than postal so if time is pressing then it's the better option anyway.
We have a guy in the club who refuses to use email as it's a 'waste of paper', we've tried explaining that he doesn't need to print them off..:-)
I had planned to do borrowdale before it was announced as a championship race,so i can understand everyones points but i'd like to think that if my entry was recieved by the organiser before someone elses then i'd get a place before them regardless of how good a runner said indivdual is,afterall it does say that the first 500 suitably experienced runners would get a place,it didn't say anything about priority to 'better' runners
Mixed feelings on that. On one hand I like that fell running has always been inclusive, but then it is a championship about finding the best, so if it was between myself and Jethro for the 500th spot, I'd expect it to be awarded to Jethro.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleeter
I guess the advantage of Angus/Mournes type races is only the 'serious/committed' runners would attend thereby keeping numbers lowish, but the disadvantage is you put off some people because of the financial costs involved, therefore it's a less competitive championship.
yeh i can see your point if it said that priority would go to championship contenders,fair enough,then that wouldn't be a problem in my eye's,but on the form it doesn't say thatQuote:
Originally Posted by IainR
Like Fleeter, I'd planned to enter Borrowdale before I knew it was going to be a championship race. I'd been disappointed not to have had the opportunity to run the full course last year.
The race and its traditions and supporters exist independently of the championship; the championship latches onto and hitches a ride on a race, but the race itself goes on from year to year.
Personally, if I get in I'll be towards the back of the also-rans; my target would be get round without being cut off. Yet that in itself doesn't mean I'm not a serious runner. How many fun runners ever attempt Borrowdale? I suggest that any 'fun' would evaporate halfway up Bessyboot.
The entry process is explicit and well advertised. If a so-called 'top runner' can't be arsed to apply in time, then tough.
Fleeter's absolutely correct, none of the pre-race info says that elite runners will get priority treatment. They shouldn't and I trust they won't.
Totally agree, well put TussockfaceQuote:
Originally Posted by Tussockface
Why not have two starts? Women and mens? Or even a wave start system as used at Bolder Boulder, Great Manchester 10k etc.
I understand the Manchester system is wonderful!!:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadrunner
Swoop, negative comments like that are no use! The Manchester system does have one problem, mainly it didn't work. the wave system at the Bolder Boulder has many waves set off at minute intervals and then the time gaps expand towards the slower runners. Does mean runners have to be turthful about finishing times.
I always thought the limit on a fell race entry was to minimise disruption to the fells and allow marshalls etc the chance of not staying on station (perhaps in dire weather) all day. Multi starts is plain madness. And a 500 limit is fine. I think IanR is just a bit panicky because he hasn't heard back yet, that's all.
Not really being pannicy, just think it's worth discussing the system.
For shorts I think it's the way to go, for longs, as you say it may not be fair on marshalls. But events like the 1000m Peaks have multiple starts. Delaying waves for 15 minutes may only add an hour on the fells for a marshall.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stolly
Not sure the start is too much of an issue though, in a long you have 15+ miles to sort yourself out, it's being in the race and making the entry process as easy and unbiased as possible, IMO.
This is to be my 13th Borrowdale. My letter went in the post on the day the entry forms were out and I've heard nothing yet. Whilst I'm not supersticious maybe 13 really is an unlucky number:(
We just found out that we are in, so it was a fair and just process afterall..:-)
No seriously, still think it's a long winded way of going about it. The sooner these races go on line entry the better for me.
Anyway now planning a recce after Blackstone edge.
i got in,excited now in a weird sort of way
Quote:
Originally Posted by IainR
How did you find out? Are race numbers out? I've not had anything yet....
got my acceptance letter today
hmm - better keep my fingers crossed and get down early for the post tomorrow then. Don't want it being sabotaged by the Mrs!!!
you should get it soon,some people got theirs last weekQuote:
Originally Posted by stumpy
I hope so. I was a few days late in sending the application as I couldn't get access to a pc to print it out - it'd be a shame if I didn't get in just for that as Borrowdale's beginning to become a bit of an annual pilgrimage for me!
......or maybe not. My confirmation arrived today. Just need to sort out my sprained ankle I collected in the last few hundred metres of the LAMM ! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by mapper
Mapper,
You got your confirmation yesterday!!??
Does that mean that us poor souls with no pressy from the postie are doomed to watch and get drunk at the beer tent?:(
I havent received one either but I think common sense will prevail and we will all get in.Quote:
Originally Posted by toppolecat
......Just think if they only allowed runners in the beer tent. That would be unlucky. Not only would you have to watch the race but you'd also have to watch me get drunk as well:DQuote:
Originally Posted by toppolecat
If common sense prevailed no one would want to enter a fell race at all!Quote:
Originally Posted by mudlugger