Three Peaks Fell Race

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tomsk

What shoes do you all recommend? for this race.

---

Last year I used light weight trail shoes (Puma Trail fox) but lots run in road shoes, a few run in real fell shoes Walshes-mudclaws etc but there is too much firm path running for me to put fell shoes on. If you are happy in road shoes and it has been dry on the run up:D to the event then go for it, I'll stick to Trail shoes as they are a bit more substantial and have better grip for P-Y-G and Whernside. What you gain on the hills you'll lose on the rough bits or visa-versa.

Up to what date are substitutions accepted ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IanDarkpeak

Last year I used light weight trail shoes (Puma Trail fox) but lots run in road shoes, a few run in real fell shoes Walshes-mudclaws etc but there is too much firm path running for me to put fell shoes on. If you are happy in road shoes and it has been dry on the run up:D to the event then go for it, I'll stick to Trail shoes as they are a bit more substantial and have better grip for P-Y-G and Whernside. What you gain on the hills you'll lose on the rough bits or visa-versa.

---

Ian, thanks for this, I was thinking down the lines of trail shoes. I have some Salamon which will do nicely. Cheers

I would recommend Swoops!

Just thought I would get in there first:D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tomsk

Ian, thanks for this, I was thinking down the lines of trail shoes. I have some Salamon which will do nicely. Cheers

---

I'd go for fell running shoes - the humdinger descent from PyG, the moorland crossing after that, the ascent up Whernside and the descent after, the first part of the climb up Inglebrough as well as the last 3.5 miles to the finish all favour grip on mud and/or tussocky grass. Some of the mud is very muddy mud.

The lads at the front were wearing road shoes. The only bit last year where road shoes wouldn't have been that good would have been the short stretch at the bottom of Whernside across the grass/moss. The run up inglebourugh from what I can remember was mostly paving slabs like they have on the top of the penines. I ran in a pair of very worn New Balance x-terrains. This year its either going to be racing flats or my wave harriers depending on the weather.

In heavy rain I wouldn't want to be coming down Whernside in racing flats!

I did a recce from the start to Ribblehead last November with a few clubmates.
The climb and decent are Ok for road shoes, but the cross country stretch was treacherous for the colleague that turned out in flats.

Done Whernside in December.

I have never run the race, but I really could not imagine trying to take the race on in my road shoes unless we had quite a few weeks of really dry weather.

So far I would say 50% of the course needs Fell Shoes or at the very least Trail shoes with a really good tread.

Doing Hill Inn to Horton on Saturday.

I did the whole thing on saturday morning - the ice on the tops made pretty much any shoe crap but fell shoes were really handy on the ups and downs. The run in to Horton was a complete mud fest and with tired legs I'm sure my fell shoes made a big difference (to my own safety if nothing else).

Get some fell studs put onto the sole of your trail shoes.

Worked for me 2 years ago and wrecking feet the year before running in Walsh's,

just google Lancashire shoe repairs.

Did it in innov-8 fell shoes and lost skin off bottoms of both feet.

Did it in Mizuno Wave Harrier trail shoes and didn't get a blister.

So its MWH for definite for me.

Can anyone pm the Garmin electronic route taken at last year's race? I want to have a play.

mizuno waves definitely for me too..like slippers

2006 - Inov8 Flyrocs - blisters from hell.
2007 - Road shoes - no trouble whatsoever, but it had been very dry in the weeks leading up to the event.

I have generally used fell shoes (Walsh) on the Three Peaks until recently (especially if it has been wet for a while). Last year I used Mizuno Wave Harrier. I was quite impressed with them. I also used them on the Manx Moutain Marathon a few weeks before without blisters etc (five and a half hours running).

Based on my view of the 3 Peaks route, you need trail, fell and road shoes :rolleyes:

Trail to the top of PyG
Fell for the descent and moor land crossing (faster to run parallel to the Penine Way, not on it)
Road from the farm (with the little bridge) to Ribblehead
Trail to the stream below Whernside
Fell up the side and back to to the farm before Chapel le Dale
Road to the Inglebrough start beyond the pub
Fell to the start of the paved slabs
Trail up the slabs, up Inglebrough and for first 2 miles of descent
Fell for the final 3 miles

Fell wins with 4 :)
Trail 3
Road 2

I suppose you could always have people with different shoes at each point waiting on you.....not.........

Though I recall people used to do that in the old slieve donard race in N.I. Very bizarre.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stolly

(faster to run parallel to the Penine Way, not on it)

---

But not allowed in the race :rolleyes:.

Wave Harriers for me too last year and not a blister to be seen ! Great Shoe !

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by david

But not allowed in the race :rolleyes:.

---

Huh? Every time I've run, on the descent runners run to the right of the path coming off the side of PyG and many then take a slight corner cutting moorland path to the right of the Penine Way for say a mile or so.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stolly

Huh? Every time I've run, on the descent runners run to the right of the path coming off the side of PyG and many then take a slight corner cutting moorland path to the right of the Penine Way for say a mile or so.

---

That section of the race is always flagged (in fact the entire route will be flagged this year). From the summit of PYG runners must follow the PW back down to the gate at the end of the track up from Horton (823743ish) and then follow the flags to Sell Gill.

Thanks for that David - hopefully the front runners as they pelt down the hill won't collide with any tail end Charlies :)

hopefully it will be wet a week before and dry on the day so I`ll wear my walshes. I won`t be too upset if its dry though!
Went running up on dartmoor last night with a few mates really good fun till the fog came in couldn`t see a thing on top of our local tor .Still great to up there at night .Anyone else like offroad at night??

Just done Ingleborough today. I think I would have struggled in my Swoops - they are not the greatest for the boards and the wet rock - so do I get myself some Wave Harriers - as I think my feet will be wrecked in Walshes - which I prefer for shorter stuff.

Not as tough as Whernside, but it certainly looks the most intimidating as you approach.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Witton Park

Just done Ingleborough today. I think I would have struggled in my Swoops - they are not the greatest for the boards and the wet rock - so do I get myself some Wave Harriers - as I think my feet will be wrecked in Walshes - which I prefer for shorter stuff.

Not as tough as Whernside, but it certainly looks the most intimidating as you approach.

---

Did you up and back the way you came from Chapel le Dale though? The last 3 miles of the 5.5 mile descent into Horton are incredibly muddy and wet at the minute.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stolly

Did you up and back the way you came from Chapel le Dale though? The last 3 miles of the 5.5 mile descent into Horton are incredibly muddy and wet at the minute.

---

Went up the race route from the Hill Inn and down to Horton.

It was actaully not bad on Saturday - the boards would have been treacherous though in my swoops - and the steep climb up the face of Ingleborough on the wet rocks would have been dodgy - so glad I had my Walshes on.

Wettest bit is the pastures in the last 2km.

Done each peak one at a time now - so next time around will do 2 together. See how it goes.

Did you go up with a few from the Harriers Sat AM?

That's correct - someone has to look after them - rumour has it you were considering joining us! On the recce that is;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Witton Park

That's correct - someone has to look after them - rumour has it you were considering joining us! On the recce that is;)

---

Rumour correct but I had to work :mad:.

Don't say you hadn't been warned. ;)

From the Three Peaks website:
Please note that the 3 Peaks Race waiting list will close on 31 January. No further names can be considered after this date. All those on the waiting list will be informed by the end of February whether or not it has been possible to include them on the entry list.

Just curious - but as the race categories in the bible are based on continuing ascent/descent, should the 3 Peaks not be a cat B race given the amount of "flat" between Peaks 1 and 2 rather than a cat A?

I liked Yorkshire Thug's answer. ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Antisocial

Just curious - but as the race categories in the bible are based on continuing ascent/descent, should the 3 Peaks not be a cat B race given the amount of "flat" between Peaks 1 and 2 rather than a cat A?

---

I think you'll find that flat bit undulates alot. Have a look at the profile here 3 Peaks Profile - its definitely not flat, thats for sure.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Antisocial

should the 3 Peaks not be a cat B race?

---

Yes. :cool:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stolly

I think you'll find that flat bit undulates alot. Have a look at the profile here 3 Peaks Profile - its definitely not flat, thats for sure.

---

:eek: What would the profile for the Wasdale be like ;)

Quote:

---

should the 3 Peaks not be a cat B race?

---

Is it not a trail race this year :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stolly

I think you'll find that flat bit undulates alot. Have a look at the profile here 3 Peaks Profile - its definitely not flat, thats for sure.

---

I have recced and raced it before, it may not be flat but it does not meet the A requirements.

Having read a lot of the comments on various threads between the rules is rules to the sod it we do what we like brigade (see kit) I appreciate this would cause hackles etc to rise - however the question still stands if technically it should be a B race given its ascent /descent why is it an A?

In the greater scheme of things it does not really matter in the face of more important debates (should I risk death by not carrying my cagoule or just piss the organisers and the FRA off) but I was just curious. I am not after a debate just the history.

But the race would be easier if the distance was shortened sufficiently to get the average feet of climb per mile higher! And if it was made cat B, you'd then have the bonkers situation of a cat B race being harder than most cat A's.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Antisocial

I have recced and raced it before, it may not be flat but it does not meet the A requirements.

Having read a lot of the comments on various threads between the rules is rules to the sod it we do what we like brigade (see kit) I appreciate this would cause hackles etc to rise - however the question still stands if technically it should be a B race given its ascent /descent why is it an A?

In the greater scheme of things it does not really matter in the face of more important debates (should I risk death by not carrying my cagoule or just piss the organisers and the FRA off) but I was just curious. I am not after a debate just the history.

---

This has been debated many times before, not least in the FRA Committee.

Some points:

-the categories are meant to be indicative of severity to inform competitors. Moses did not bring them down on the tablets The PPP is a hard race and it would be perverse to categorise it as a "B" ie easy when it isn't. Someone once died in the race.

- it has actually got longer but not higher in recent years because of route changes.To illustrate this point- if it were made 20 miles longer it might become a "C". So easier? Would that be helpful to potential entrants?

- virtually no fellrace is accurately measured so if one gets pious about the PPP one should apply the same criteria to ALL 750 fell races.

- but to return to my first point, it really does not matter. The PPP is tougher than say Three Shires or Langdale and so Category "A" indicates it is a tough race.

Frankly, anyone who finishes the PPP and thinks it is just a "B" in a real rather than a statistical sense just hasn't been running fast enough.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GrahamB

This has been debated many times before, not least in the FRA Committee.

Some points:

-the categories are meant to be indicative of severity to inform competitors. Moses did not bring them down on the tablets The PPP is a hard race and it would be perverse to categorise it as a "B" ie easy when it isn't. Someone once died in the race.

- it has actually got longer but not higher in recent years because of route changes.To illustrate this point- if it were made 20 miles longer it might become a "C". So easier? Would that be helpful to potential entrants?

- virtually no fellrace is accurately measured so if one gets pious about the PPP one should apply the same criteria to ALL 750 fell races.

- but to return to my first point, it really does not matter. The PPP is tougher than say Three Shires or Langdale and so Category "A" indicates it is a tough race.

Frankly, anyone who finishes the PPP and thinks it is just a "B" in a real rather than a statistical sense just hasn't been running fast enough.

---

Here here :)

I'm surprised at you Graham. That's not up to your usual knowlegeable standard :eek:

The categorisation has TWO letters, not just one. The length of the race is denoted by the second letter - L, M, or S so the length of the Three Peaks should not be an issue when debating its A, B or C status. We have always been told that the A/B/C category is decided by feet of climbing and how much of the race is on true fell and how much on road/track.

Yes, the 3 Peaks is a hard race but based on what I understand of the FRA's categorisation system it's definitely a BL.

When you think about how much artificial surface you are running on I even think it borders a CL!! :rolleyes:

The reason it has been given an A status is more to do with it's long-standing fame in the fellrunning world as a tough challenge. Should this justify it's A status? I don't think so - not if the categorisation is to be considered logical and not just subjective.

Then maybe the fault is in the FRA grading system ;). Okay I've not done any Wasdale or Ennerdale races but the 3 peaks is definitely tougher than last year's Borrowdale (lite), the Langdale Horseshoe and the Tour of Pendle, only based on my experience of course.

Were I a virgin to the 3 peaks, I'd kind of want the FRA grading system to give me a grading of what to expect relative to other tough races and calling it BL would be plain wrong.