Coronavirus

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Originally Posted by Witton Park

Dear Mr Taylor,

We refer to your correspondence dated 27/03/2020.

We apologise, for the cancellation of your flight FR4081 from Liverpool to Fuerteventura on 21/03/2020 which was due to the current worldwide COVID 19 crisis.

As per interpretive guidelines on EU passenger rights, announced by the EU commission on cancellations caused due to COVID 19, this is now classified as an extraordinary circumstance and compensation does not apply under EU261/2004.

If you remain dissatisfied with the final decision made from our customer services team, you may contact the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) and their Passenger Advice and Complaints Team (PACT).

We hope the above clarifies the matter and we have now closed your claim

Yours sincerely,

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It wouldn't surprise me if what they were quoting was factually incorrect. I'm sure I heard Martin Lewis on 5 live a couple of weeks ago saying that people would be entitled to a full refund if the airline cancelled your flight.

It looks to me like straight forward breech of contract. They were unable to provide with the service you contracted for (whatever the reason) so you should be entitled to your money back. Mind you, I've never liked Michael O'Leary.

[QUOTE=Witton Park;659338]Ryanair.

Dear Mr Taylor,

We refer to your correspondence dated 27/03/2020.

We apologise, for the cancellation of your flight FR4081 from Liverpool to Fuerteventura on 21/03/2020 which was due to the current worldwide COVID 19 crisis.

As per interpretive guidelines on EU passenger rights, announced by the EU commission on cancellations caused due to COVID 19, this is now classified as an extraordinary circumstance and compensation does not apply under EU261/2004.

If you remain dissatisfied with the final decision made from our customer services team, you may contact the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) and their Passenger Advice and Complaints Team (PACT).

We hope the above clarifies the matter and we have now closed your claim

Yours sincerely,

It looks to me that the EU have changed the rules and airlines are following new guidance (obviously to their benefit)

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Originally Posted by Travs

As much as i'd hate to do it myself, the only thing these companies hate is negative publicity on Social Media.... an angry rant on their facebook page... "Ryanair offered me a transfer/refund... I took the refund then they wouldn't pay" etc, might get them into action.

I just simply refuse to use budget airlines wherever possible (whilst appreciating that is not always possible)

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I initially had a problem claiming, and then when I did I'm suspecting their system has a problem because I have read the EU directive and it is a 2004 one and to do with compensation not refunds.

So I'll wait and see what happens with the credit card. I'm sure I'll get my money back.

You should get a full refund from the airline. Airlines are trying to fob people off with vouchers but you don't have to accept.

What are my rights?
If your flight is cancelled, you are entitled to a full refund to the original form of payment within seven days, although many airlines will be struggling to meet that deadline. You can accept, or refuse, vouchers or a rebooking but a voucher will probably be invalid if the airline later goes bust

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52105526

With respect mike: the government has had almost polar opposites in terms of advice from the medical community.
The oxford and imperial studies are massively far apart. It is acting on inevitably imperfect information , and a fog of wildly varying advice. It has appointed two well qualified professionals, and it cannot simultaneously go left and right. Dissenting voices are not helpful.

The government also has to try to avoid trashing the economy completely, a constraint the medical community never seems to even consider, let alone take into account. Every week that goes by, the worse the financial prognosis becomes.A population that is healthy but dies of starvation is not a success.

From the first reports the government were saying restrictions would come, nothing changed,

Germany is benefiting from a decentralised and far more privatised structure. I agree the labyrinthine nature of PHE and uppper echelons of NHS needs dismantling and replacing with something fit for purpose, but it won’t happen any time soon.

But then Scandinavian states are doing well, not locking down so far.

The reality is nobody knows , the government always said that it would be staged restrictions. There is no u turn I see, only journalists trying to play gotcha, and medics trying to play told you so. Neither of which is useful. The editor of lancet has proved little except his own arrogance in believing he alone knew best.

Yes we need testing , but considering the normal pathway of validation ( a Drug takes seven years , hundreds of millions, is likely to fail, and more or less uneconomic because of short patents) , expecting mass testing fast is unrealistic because of how trials work. There is an undeclared war going on for ppe, ventilators and reagents

The left and europhile dominated media are a disgrace. On the day macron seized a massive shipment of NHS destined ppe, from its regular supplier the media response was not to criticise France but to criticise own government for the lack of ppe!

Nobody knows or will ever know if the government made mistakes, because nobody knows what would have happened on a different path. Hindsight is 2020

We are living in the fog of war,

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Originally Posted by Mike T

We will get herd immunity even with people obeying lockdown as we are still mixing - in shops/hospitals/public transport/at essential work/care homes - and Covid 19 is so infectious. But with lockdown the curve is flattened - we hope - so that the NHS can save those who can be saved, rather than being overwhelmed. Herd immunity is not a choice - it will happen - but we hopefully can influence how quickly/slowly we get there, and how many people die in the process. The government's mistake was to think the epidemic needed a bit of help, and now, despite video evidence to the contrary, are denying that they were thinking that way. Lockdown should have been weeks earlier. As for horse racing, and pop concerts ....

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Originally Posted by Oracle

The editor of lancet has proved little except his own arrogance in believing he alone knew best.

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He has been very critical of the Government and said last Thursday:

'Honestly, I'm sorry to say this, but it's a national scandal. We shouldn't be in this position. We knew in the last week of January that this was coming. The message from China was absolutely clear that a new virus with pandemic potential was hitting cities, people were being admitted to hospital, admitted to intensive care units and dying.

'And the mortality was growing, we knew that eleven weeks ago. Then we wasted February when we could have acted - time when we could have ramped up testing, time when we could have got personal protective equipment ready and disseminated. We did not do it.'

He may well be right on all the above. However go back to January 24th and he actually tweeted this:

"A call for caution please. Media are escalating anxiety by talking of a “killer virus” + “growing fears”. In truth, from what we currently know, 2019-nCoV has moderate transmissibility and relatively low pathogenicity. There is no reason to foster panic with exaggerated language."

Thanks for digging those up.
It all proves that nobody (including him) really knew.

One problem most are missing about testing is that to validate a test you need an infected population sufficiently representatitve of the population. That is hard to do without..... an infected population!!! So you cannot validate in advance, even if you have a gene sequence!

You also need sufficient knowledge of the disease pathology, to know who was and was not infected. Even the controls are a serious problem if some are assymptomatic. Once the cases are enrolled on a trial, it takes a significant period to validate.

All this is difficult to do.

NORMALLY, you would expect international cooperation (which Bill Gates is endeavouring to do on vaccine) but in this environment it is clearly every country for itself.

Our media are hopelessly unrealistic. They seem to think criticism for criticism sake is useful.

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Originally Posted by Muddy Retriever

He has been very critical of the Government and said last Thursday:

'Honestly, I'm sorry to say this, but it's a national scandal. We shouldn't be in this position. We knew in the last week of January that this was coming. The message from China was absolutely clear that a new virus with pandemic potential was hitting cities, people were being admitted to hospital, admitted to intensive care units and dying.

'And the mortality was growing, we knew that eleven weeks ago. Then we wasted February when we could have acted - time when we could have ramped up testing, time when we could have got personal protective equipment ready and disseminated. We did not do it.'

He may well be right on all the above. However go back to January 24th and he actually tweeted this:

"A call for caution please. Media are escalating anxiety by talking of a “killer virus” + “growing fears”. In truth, from what we currently know, 2019-nCoV has moderate transmissibility and relatively low pathogenicity. There is no reason to foster panic with exaggerated language."

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Originally Posted by Muddy Retriever

He has been very critical of the Government and said last Thursday:

'Honestly, I'm sorry to say this, but it's a national scandal. We shouldn't be in this position. We knew in the last week of January that this was coming. The message from China was absolutely clear that a new virus with pandemic potential was hitting cities, people were being admitted to hospital, admitted to intensive care units and dying.

'And the mortality was growing, we knew that eleven weeks ago. Then we wasted February when we could have acted - time when we could have ramped up testing, time when we could have got personal protective equipment ready and disseminated. We did not do it.'

He may well be right on all the above. However go back to January 24th and he actually tweeted this:

"A call for caution please. Media are escalating anxiety by talking of a “killer virus” + “growing fears”. In truth, from what we currently know, 2019-nCoV has moderate transmissibility and relatively low pathogenicity. There is no reason to foster panic with exaggerated language."

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Thanks for posting - I missed that reversal of opinion.

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Originally Posted by Mike T

Something should have been done sooner - testing/tracing/lockdown - something. Germany is doing well, as are Australia and New Zealand.

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I don't think comparisons with other countries are particularly helpful at this stage, we haven't even reached half time yet.
For instance: Population of London is 9 million.
Population of the whole of New Zealand is 5 million.
Population of Australia is 25 million and that is a BIG place.

Very probably age demographics and a multitude of other factors play a role in decision making. After the event is the time to compare like with like and learn from different approaches and problems faced by each society.

My personal take on the current situation here is not to try and prevent everyone catching the virus, but to slow the spread up enough to be able to save the highest % of saveable people possible and not be overwhelmed.

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Originally Posted by molehill

I don't think comparisons with other countries are particularly helpful at this stage, we haven't even reached half time yet.
For instance: Population of London is 9 million.
Population of the whole of New Zealand is 5 million.
Population of Australia is 25 million and that is a BIG place.

Very probably age demographics and a multitude of other factors play a role in decision making. After the event is the time to compare like with like and learn from different approaches and problems faced by each society.

My personal take on the current situation here is not to try and prevent everyone catching the virus, but to slow the spread up enough to be able to save the highest % of saveable people possible and not be overwhelmed.

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If there was a fault in strategy, I think it was that the elderly and vulnerable should have been quarantined early not everyone else. I still see 80 year olds in the supermarket queues: complaining about how youngsters are the problem by gathering together!