best fell runner ever ?

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Originally Posted by L.F.F.

Conceded he might've been primarily a distance runner.

What was your point then? I can see your point might have been relevant without the word 'ultra'. Just trying to understand what your point was with that word included.

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That if I had said he was merely a distance runner/racer (i.e AL classics) there would have been others hauling me over the coals that I had not stated his credentials at challenges beyond those distances.

Remember, the title of this thread is "the best fell RUNNER ever", not "the best fell RACER ever".

You are appearing to be pedantic about his racing prowess. Others would have been equally pedantic about his prowess beyond races. I was just attempting to cover all the bases.

Billy Bland was the consummate all rounder. Prior to being reinstated as an amateur he had a good career as a "guides racer".
As a reinstated amateur he won races at all distances (in the late 80's as a V40 he was outright winner of the Fleetwith Pike race from Gatescarth, one of the first V40's to be an outright winner at a time when there was plenty of good, young, upcoming talent about) and successfully participated in ultra distance challenges.
The only other consummate all rounder that could possibly challenge Billy is Colin Donnelly, he certainly wins in regards to longevity of career in obtaining good results at all distances and still setting himself some incredible mountain challenges.

See what you're saying, I think. It might've been the use of the word 'pure' since it's hard to be a pure distance runner and ultra runner I'd have thought - hard to be a 'pure' two of anything isn't it?

Not being pedantic. Just pointing it out as you do get the occasional comment which seems to overlook the racing and focus on the 'ultra' stuff.

Nine Ennerdales. Amazing.

Home's calling.

Joss gets my vote!

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Originally Posted by wheezing donkey

Billy Bland was the consummate all rounder. Prior to being reinstated as an amateur he had a good career as a "guides racer".
As a reinstated amateur he won races at all distances (in the late 80's as a V40 he was outright winner of the Fleetwith Pike race from Gatescarth, one of the first V40's to be an outright winner at a time when there was plenty of good, young, upcoming talent about) and successfully participated in ultra distance challenges.
The only other consummate all rounder that could possibly challenge Billy is Colin Donnelly, he certainly wins in regards to longevity of career in obtaining good results at all distances and still setting himself some incredible mountain challenges.

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spot on WD.. its between those 2 for sure... all round excellence. Hard to split, but those 2 stand clear by a long way.

Anyone mentioned Wendy Dodds? Has anyone else won champs at every age group they've competed in?

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Originally Posted by Dynamo Dan

Anyone mentioned Wendy Dodds? Has anyone else won champs at every age group they've competed in?

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I should think Holmsie, Mark Roberts, Sally Newman will or could do.

What would you say is the best in a race?

The one who holds the record or the most wins of that race?

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Originally Posted by Stagger

I should think Holmsie, Mark Roberts, Sally Newman will or could do.

What would you say is the best in a race?

The one who holds the record or the most wins of that race?

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Interesting question. Not sure which I'd say is the most impressive. I've just been wondering which of those I'd rather have and I think I'd rather have the most wins. There's something about the same person winning a race a number of years on the trot that just looks so impressive, and it shows a real commitment to that race as well, like Joss Naylor at Ennerdale (don't know if I've mentioned that before), and Simon Booth at Borrowdale. Can't think of any others. Ben Abdelnoor is building up a nice tally at Wasdale!

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Originally Posted by L.F.F.

........ I think I'd rather have the most wins. There's something about the same person winning a race a number of years on the trot that just looks so impressive, and it shows a real commitment to that race as well, ......

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I would not detract from anyone winning a race and winning it regularly; but time (whether it be a record time or not) is an absolute. Hence why in cycling, time trialling is known as "the race of truth". A position within a race is relative to the others that are racing.
I think it was Eddy Merckx as a junior, whenever he went home and told his father that he'd won a race, his father's reply was always the same, "But who was second?"

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Originally Posted by wheezing donkey

I would not detract from anyone winning a race and winning it regularly; but time (whether it be a record time or not) is an absolute. Hence why in cycling, time trialling is known as "the race of truth". A position within a race is relative to the others that are racing.
I think it was Eddy Merckx as a junior, whenever he went home and told his father that he'd won a race, his father's reply was always the same, "But who was second?"

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'I would not detract from anyone winning a race'. I'd say the rest of your posts suggests you would.

Interesting quote from Eddy Merckx's father. In later years he would ask, 'But was he also on EPO?'

Ps, I'd double-check your underastanding of how brackets are used.

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Originally Posted by Stagger

What would you say is the best in a race?
The one who holds the record or the most wins of that race?

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Well, Jeff Norman won the Three Peaks six times in a row and is still the only person ever to have gone under 2.30.
Not just a fell runner, he also still holds the record for the Snowdonia Marathon and his World 50K track record set in
1980 still stands. At 69 he is still competing on the road, cross country and fells and regularly wins the M65 prize.

This is all too subjective. What we need is a formula to decide it once and for all. Something simple like:

Number of records*x + number of champs*y + number of years winning races*z

Then we just need to agree on the values for x, y and z, argue about a weighting for certain races and the relative strength of the field and find a statistician to process all the data.

I'm glad I could help :)