I certainly hope so as I'll be marshalling at 1 or 2 points. Deffo a day for all the navigators / those that know the route.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Fozzy42
Have a good run folks, c u in the morning.
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I certainly hope so as I'll be marshalling at 1 or 2 points. Deffo a day for all the navigators / those that know the route.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Fozzy42
Have a good run folks, c u in the morning.
Have a good run, all...I'll do it one day!
Just getting ready to set off. Well up for it now! Hope I don't get timed out but will be happy to have a first run out in the Lakes since Howtown.
Good luck people!!? It's reet manky down here in Morecambe so lord alone knows what you guys face! Might be interesting.....numbers on vests/chest mind!! :)
Today was a bit of an epic, the worst conditions I've ever encountered...
Rain was pretty much non stop and horizontal, wind on the Scoat Fell - Pillar ridge was enough to blow me over, and the state of some of the people who retired say more thsn I can about the combined effects of the cold/wind/rain....
I was timed out on Pillar. Things were going well up to Seatallan and i was a good 15 mins ahead of the cutoff, and although heading in the right directlion towards the Haycock/Scoat Fell col, I guess I took a terrible line in the zero visibility, and the people who caught up to me were backing right up against the cutoffs. Pressed on over Scoat Fell, and then encountered the first casualties. 4 or 5 guys helping a woman down who was suffering hypothermia, then some army guys who had retired or timed out I'm not sure. Around here I somehow turned 180 degrees and was heading away from Pillar. Whether I was heading down the Red Pike ridge or back towards Scoat a Fell I still don't know, but luckily I bumped into a lady who set me right.
By the time we reached Wind Gap the Pillar cutoff had gone, and we bumped into another 5 or 6 runners who were escorting a lady down who had fell and banged her head. I think 3 of us battled on up to Pillar checkpoint, with 9 peoples tags, to verify our location and time ourselves out, not that we had a choice as we were 20 mins past the cutoff.
Shame as I felt strong and was still moving well, albeit in the wrong direction at times, but the conditions were very harsh, and with slower rockier ground to come, it was probably a blessing that I was timed out, and didn't have that hard decision to make myself, as I'm not sure I'd have been man enough to retire.
I have to thank everyone involved today, from the runners who looked out for each other, to the marshals who stood out in such terrible conditions for our safety, I really have no hard feelings or disappointment about my first DNF...
One slight negative. My dad had gone up to Sty Head to hopefully see me come through, and he said people who had clearly been timed out on Gable were carrying on up the route. Whether he got this correct or not I can't say, so probably shouldn't even mention it, but if so, it's a pretty poor show on a day like today.
I'd also mention all the people who finished today. Better men and women than me.
Pete
Pete,Quote:
Originally Posted by Travs
A good and worthy post and thank you.
Whilst it will be little comfort to you because of your DNF it is important that reports are made of days like this to counter those who would have us all become blasé about safety. Even on good days Wasdale is probably the toughest race in the Calendar and on a bad day I'm not sure that the English language has a strong enough adjective... so well done.
Graham
Agree. A tough day out in testing conditions for all. No shame in not finishing today at all. Important for everyone to respect this and other races; benign, but tough on many days, loaded with potential serious incident on a day like today.Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham Breeze
The marshals deserve great praise and thanks for being out on the hills for us to have 'fun'- as ever it wouldn't happen without them.
Thanks to the marshals and sandwich makers at the finish! Was good to see Joss at Greendale handing out drinks. I got timed out by a few minutes at Seatallan. Not too disappointed as I think I would have made it in better conditions. Walked back to Greendale with the marshals and got a lift back to Brackenclose. Enjoyed some sandwiches, cake and coffee and had a sleep in the car while I waited for a friend to finish. Big kudos to everyone who finished today, the conditions were epic! Hope the injured runners are ok.
I would not like to over exaggerate today, plenty of people got round, and I saw on Facebook that one legend of fell running merely described it as 'wet and windy'....
But for those of us who are even slightly human, well it was close to the limit. I've certainly come across colder weather, and possibly come across windier weather at times, but the rain was pretty monstrous, and all combined it was pretty serious. I think a lot of people may have been too slow to react to the conditions, tales of people cowering behind rocks and walls attempting to get into warm clothes abound.
I'm sure a lot of runners brushed it off with the minimum of fuss, but the ridge from Scoat Fell to Wind Gap was a bit of a war zone for a good number...
Agree with all of the above. Would just like to add my thanks also to the organiser and marshals. I was in a group of three coming up to scafell summit; think it's fair to say we were pretty pleased to find him, we all thanked him (I think it was just one guy?) and despite his being sat up there for an age, he still had a smile on his face and a few words of encouragement. Brilliant. Then the three of us ran down brown tongue, missing lingmell nose... Ha!
Massive well done to all who even attempted it today. Gruelling to say the least.
Harv
Hope you went back up..?Quote:
Originally Posted by harv
I was sitting in Brackenclose car park at 8:00am this morning waiting for an aspirant BG'er to appear thinking how much the day reminded of the 2010 race. Weather conditions were almost a carbon copy (at ground level).
I have fond memories of that day as coming off the summit of Scafell Pike I spotted two runners in front and they were definitely in the race as they had numbers pinned to their chests (I wasn't falling for that one!) They opened up a gap on the rocky descent from the summit and I just about ran my bits off trying to catch them all the way down Brown Tongue. I felt right pleased with myself as I passed them near the bottom and then tried really hard to open up a gap. At the fell gate a marshall pointed out to me that I was in the Wasdale fell race and this was the checkpoint for a different event ( I think the 3 peaks yacht race?) and that my checkpoint was back up there on Lingmell Nose!
My first thoughts were a few expletives beginning with B and as I'm not one to quit I trudged back up, passing the two runners still descending, who looked somewhat surprised,and finally hauled my sorry ass over the line in just over seven hours!
Lesson learnt and I haven't done the race since!
Seriously though respect to all who attempted it today, it must have been very tough in the conditions
I ran round yesterday with my 18 year old son who enjoyed every minute of it - great experience for him but I'm not sure he quite realised how much nervous energy I was putting into navigating. I, on the other hand, couldn't see a thing with rain and condensation on my glasses, so the descents were a nightmare. If I took my glasses off I couldn't see and if I kept them on I couldn't see. So it was slow progress coming down from Pillar and Gable to say the least.
It was a good job the rain wasn't really cold - I think there would have been mass hypothermia if that had been the case, but one the whole if you kept moving fast enough you could stay warm. That said, I stopped at Sty Head to put two dry thermals and a balaclava on, and only then did I feel that I was maintaining my body heat.
I thought the race organisation was outstanding and the marshals deserve 100% credit for being so positive and encouraging in spite of standing in that weather for several hours. Thanks! If I can get some contact lenses and a better weather forecast I might go back.
Indeed.Quote:
Originally Posted by blencathrafrommykitchen
If any one body deserves "credit" for initiating classic fell running as we know it today it is Cumberland Fell Runners' Association.
It was my speaking with Colin Dulson and Richard Eastman 15 years ago and my hearing the sentence "putting this race on costs me money but I will carry on for as long as runners continue to turn up" that led to the creation of the LCT.
As I have written elsewhere, the FRA safety requirements can be traced directly to the report "Safety of Fell Races" produced by CFRA in 1981 following the death of Bob English in the 1981 Ennerdale race.
Simply the best.
I was only watching yesterday, but my God those conditions on the summits was atrocious.
I watched the start, then headed over to Greendale Bridge to see the first lot of runners through there and take a few pics, quite pleasant here, raining but quite calm, then back up to Scaffell summmit, conditions were atrocious, howling wind and horizontal rain. Was hoping to take a few photos at the top but dare'nt even get my camera out up there. Worst conditions I've known up there during summer, winter would be a different matter, but middle of summer you'd think it would be half decent. Certainly justifies the thorough kit check requirements.
Last year I did this race in just over 6hrs, I honestly think I would've been timed out yesterday, or got lost completely and still be out there now.
Enjoyed the day out though, utmost respect to all the runners, those who finished and those who did not, genuinly tough characters just for even starting, hats off to you all.
Hi all, my first ever post on here but just wanted to add to the thread. I ran at Wasdale yesterday and for me it was the worst conditions I've come across, not the coldest day (it was July after all) but with the constant driving rain and hail at times on the tops combined with winds strong enough to blow me over several times it all combined to be a tough tough day. I also ended with a first DNF but could have been much worse as I became hypothermic somewhere on the run down off Scafell to the finish. I made the fatal mistake of not running on a bearing (as I would normally have done) but as I'd gone over Scafell in a group thought I could just hang on and follow the rest down. I then lost contact as I was pretty much spent by this time and got lost somewhere on the flanks of the mountain with absolutely no visibility and driving rain and wind.
At this point I just kept heading down hoping to hit something I'd recognise but my legs stopped working and I was stubbling around and falling over, next thing I know I'm being picked up by some fell walkers that took me back to the Wasdale head inn. I don't have any memory of how they got me there. I was then looked after by a guy from the mountain rescue team and then by an ambulance crew who he called out. My body temperature was low and blood sugars low also apparently. I can't say enough about the various people who looked after me I'm certainly in there debt because without there help I'm not sure where I'd be this morning. Once I'd recovered my core temprature and blood sugars I was able to report back to the race HQ by this time it was around 20.15 I think.
I was in good shape going into the race and had done this one twice before in reasonable times so new what to expect. I had my top jacket on and hat and in honesty didn't feel as cold as I clearly was, I'd also eaten 4 gels and a chocolate bar on route which for me is a lot but I think that ultimately the effect of the constant battering of wind and rain took effect and my body stopped cooperating.
I was able then to drive home thankfully my day ending up in a 24hr Macdonalds in Keighly (the only place I could find to get any food)all in all a grim end to a grim day but one I can hopefully learn from. As others have said a massive thanks to the marshals and all those who helped out with the race they were certainly going over and above staying on summit checkpoints for so long in these conditions.
Cheers,
Ash
Well done all, finishers or not, I still admire every one of you for having a go at it...something I don't dare do yet!
Another note of praise from me for the marshals yesterday.
As my clubmate commented on the way back, "That was proper hardcore marshalling".
Think I was with you on Gable then Blencathrafrommykitchen - or if not you then it was someone else who was also finding they had difficulty seeing with and without glasses. If it was you, ta for removing my foot from the hole I wedged it in on the way up!!Quote:
Originally Posted by blencathrafrommykitchen
I was there yesterday and would just like to echo the sentiments of others regarding the amazing work of the organiser and marshals under very difficult conditions. Thanks everyone.
I was'nt there yesterday but knew it wasn't going to be nice out there. As Graham Breeze says, these accounts are invaluable and people should read them, almost before they even enter their first event! Great write ups that really show what fell running is about from top to bottom. It sounds like one of those events most of us are glad we didn't do but wish we had! Chapeau to all who toed the line, marshalled and put it on.
A testing day. Time to rock the boat - does anyone share my disappointment at the start of the race - the marshals called out numbers for random kit checks but how many actually stood forward?
To my mind, those who didn't should have been disqualified. End of. OK, some were taking their final pre-race pee against the wall, but that's no excuse. Why have these rules if people can dodge them - especially in such conditions?
The weather can't have been that bad, someone did a 21:40 BG yesterday ;-)
Thanks again to all the super human marshals and sandwhich makers of CFR . And a great big thankyou to Fiona fullwood of Dark Peak for navigating the black sail pass for us when me and a few others had lost the plot. It was certainly Grim Peter "Travs" ( hope your quads feel better) thankfully Fiona brought us down brilliantly. Next year wont come fast enough #unfinishedbusiness ;-) lol! great meeting you guys
Bill Beckett Chorley A&T
We saw his GF at Brackenclose I think asking where he was likely to come off Sca Fell. If its the same guy he did legs 2 and 3 on his tod! Respect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Toreador
I had my first DNF yesterday. I took an OK line from Seatallan and hit the SW flank of Scoat fell much earlier than I anticipated and then for some reason (probably the foul conditions) I thought I had got the nav totally wrong and was on the flank of Haycock! The time lost trying to work out where I was and get back on track meant that by the time I got to the col between Great and Little Scoat hitting the cut-off at Pillar seemed unlikely. Found two other guys here also struggling and we agreed to stick together and get off the tops as the weather was unbelievable for summer. Never seen anything like it. I read on here once that 'discretion is the better part of valour'. Certainly true in my case.
I think he meant me! So I have written a piece on my race experience to help others attempt and hopefully complete the race. And to add my thanks here to the organisors, marshalls and helpers. http://runbg.co.uk/Articles/2016%20Wasdale%20Race.htmQuote:
Originally Posted by Travs
Some recent posts have suggested that the weather at this year's Wasdale race was unexpected in Summer. I have never run the Wasdale or Borrowdale races, but I do have one abiding memory of walking on Scafell Pike.
It was the second Saturday of August, and the weather was pretty much as experienced at Wasdale this year: horizontal rain, being driven by a wind that made it difficult to stand up, let alone move forward, especially on the boulder-field around Scafell Pike summit.
I was ten years old at the time. Outdoor clothing in 1968 wasn't what it is now, and I certainly didn't have the best of what was available even then. But I survived the soaking and battering, and it didn't put me off going into the mountains.
Very interesting thread this. Ash's post is particularly insightful "I then lost contact as I was pretty much spent by this time and got lost somewhere on the flanks of the mountain with absolutely no visibility and driving rain and wind. At this point I just kept heading down hoping to hit something I'd recognise but my legs stopped working and I was stubbling around and falling over, next thing I know I'm being picked up by some fell walkers that took me back to the Wasdale head inn"Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham Breeze
This seems to be another serious incident narrowly avoided.
I'd be keen to hear more about what GB refers to in his "Safety in Fell Races" quote. Is there something available on the web to read ? Respect to all - finishers or not.
Yes, that was me. I think you would have got your foot out eventually!Quote:
Originally Posted by BillJ
It was warm but pretty grim up high as long as you kept moving. Even though it was 10 degrees on the summits if you stopped for longer than a few minutes it felt cold due to wind chill etc. Good experience for those who have never been subjected to weather like that a to what a paper weather report can translate to up on the summits. Glad everyone got back ok. See you next year?
Pleased to see you arrive back in 1 piece Ash at the finish field. A pleasure to meet you Fozzy at Greendale. Anyone on the start line has my utmost respect on a day like Saturday, however.....
Didn't know wether to cringe at the comment of 1 runner to Joss along the lines of "this is a laugh". I understand all about laughing in the face of adversity & I do hope sincerely you got round but it's not the attitude I would have for Wasdale.
I have written 4/5 paragraphs on the death of Bob English and after in part 2 of A Sense of Perspective in the Autumn 2015 Fellrunner.Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanB
The CFRA document was 16 typed pages + 8 pages of appendices. After 35 years it has clearly dated - it's value was in starting more rigorous thinking about safety in fell races that has led us to where the FRA is today.
The CFRA document is still on their website (I assume for historic interest): http://www.cfra.co.uk/safetyfellraces.pdf
Yes. That's the one (and easier to read than the original typed version).Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveB
Just to further add to this thread and in particular my own situation which was entirely of my own making of course, on reflection these are the things that I believe contributed to my situation -
1. I removed my jacket in Greendale because it was warm and humid in the valley and didn’t put it back on until way after I should have by which time I had become soaked. My reasoning at the time was I just didn’t feel cold. I should have anticipated better how I would get being out on the fells in poor conditions for what turned out to be upwards of 6 hrs. Having read Nicky's blog on his race experience some useful pointers in that especially his use of the rule of 3.
2. I should have taken more food than I would normally have done given the weather. I didn't anticipate enough how much more energy I would be burning off in the wind and rain. I normally struggle to eat during long runs/races like many of us but that wasn’t the case on Saturday when I ate more than I normally would but still could have done with more.
3. Most importantly I should have run off the pike on a bearing rather than trust that I would be ok and be able to stay in contact with others. Had I done that last thing I don't have any doubt I would have been back at the finish eating those lovely sandwiches and drinking sweet tea but the extra time bumbling around somewhere on the side of the mountain getting colder got the better of me. My nav up until that point had been ok despite a little detour around Scoat fell and having done that run down to the valley many times before (including in poor visibility) didn’t think it would be a problem, a stupid mistake on my behalf and I should have known better.
Finally the one thing that struck me is just how quickly you go from feeling ok to being a mess (I felt reasonable enough going through the Scafell checkpoint) proving above all how important it is to react early and anticipate what potentially might happen.
It’s a great race and fantastically organised by the Cumberland Fell Runners Association and I'll definitely be back for more I hope. Thanks again to all involved.
Ash
Glad you're OK, Ash. Think you may find Nicky isn't a he though!Quote:
Originally Posted by Ash
It's that thing about reaching the summit of a mountain and then having an accident on the descent... I was confident once we hit the path off ScaFell Pike that the only thing we still had worry about was the state of our knees after the ensuing 3000' of descent. In reality we ended up just on the wrong (north east) side of Lingmell Col, heading towards Sty Head again. When I stopped to take a bearing I couldn't believe that we were heading east by north instead of west. Fortunately my son took more notice of what the compass was saying than what I was saying, and we reascended a short way to the Col and soon hit the wall and path down into Wasdale. Given that I had all my spare kit on and had eaten all my food there wasn't much margin for error.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ash
Ah thanks for pointing that out I'm new on here so didn't realise no offence meant Nicky.Quote:
Originally Posted by DinoF
Haha Ash and knowing Nicky (Spinks) well enough I can asure you that no offence will be taken. I was helping out on the finish on Saturday and I can tell you that we were all mightily relieved to see you back safe and well. We had identified your car still on the field and knew that you were having a bit of an epic day.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ash
It was also great to see that all the safety systems in place to recognise that someone was unaccounted for worked as they should have done. We were also able to identify the last checkpoint that you had been recorded through. It was interesting that you were by no means last at Esk Hause so it had all gone wrong afterwards.
Nicky's account should be a useful reminder to all runners that carrying kit will not keep you safe. You do actually have to take some responsibility for your own wellbeing and put stuff on. It can be hard lesson to learn.
All the best
Thanks that's a relief I certainly wouldn't want to be disrespectful to someone who has achieved so much in the sport and is rightly admired by many (me included)Quote:
Originally Posted by Charmian
It was great to get back to the field eventually and see you all there I can tell you, thanks again.
Ash
A few pics from last Saturday, mostly at Greendale Bridge, not great quality sorry.
Was hoping to take a few more at Scafell Pike summit but 'cos it was chucking it down and blowing a gale I dare'nt even get my camera out.
https://www.flickr.com/gp/145179885@N07/7p33j6
Hi All, first time on the forum for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ash
I can't echo Ash's words enough.
Wasdale 2016 was my first Lakeland fell race, and I may have been a little naive about just how tough the route would be, but I got round without incident and thankfully inside the cut-offs. And yet, all the way round I was acutely aware of those same 3 points Ash makes above - concerned about not letting myself deteriorate due to lack of energy, not wanting to become too cold even if it meant being trapping wet clothing inside a waterproof layer, and concerned that I would make a daft route choice or lose concentration when mentally and physically tired.
I'm not smug about getting round the course, it was tough and I was within 10 minutes of each of the cut-offs and any small delay, including wind or a fall, could have conspired against me. But staying safe and fueled and alert enough to get around the whole course was a big deal and right at the front of my thoughts for 6+ hours. Keeping myself in a good state meant more than chasing a time or the person in front.
I'd call myself a novice fell runner, but with plenty of prior experience of battling cold/wind/rain/navigation in the mountains during summer and winter. I've known much worse conditions in Scotland in winter, so that was how I framed the whole day, aware of what I had to do to stay safe. It's like so many have said here and elsewhere, experience matters. Knowing what to look for in yourself - recognising the signs of your own decline - can only be gained through experience. You can only gain the right experience from putting yourself into situations that give rise to learning from mistakes, and learning from those who have been there before. I've made my share of mistakes in the past and thankfully these are etched in memory every time I go into the hills, especially in conditions like Saturday, putting me into a hyper-alert mode where I'm constantly checking against that line that must not be crossed. It could so easily have been me.
Ash's last point is so important. Knowing that it's possible to deteriorate rapidly and make bad decisions means there must be some margin for error in decisions. Pushing hard means there is rarely much of a margin. Fell running can be such an all-round test, nothing is ever beyond doubt, and that's part of the appeal. I hope I never forget that.
I take my hat off to those marshalls who gave up their time to stand in rain and wind at the top of each hill. Every one of them was cheery and helpful. I am so impressed!
Glad you got back in one piece Ash. Well done.
BTW, my back still aches from carrying too much food last Saturday!