Brexit

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Originally Posted by Derby Tup

I only ever look at the forum on my phone and can’t see how to embed or do the clicky links everyone used to do. I can do quotes, but forget to, plus it’s rare anyone posts anything worth reading, never mind quoting sadly

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Tell the Italian stallion to sort it out.

Roxy Music. Make me a deal and make it straight

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Originally Posted by Llani Boy

Roxy Music. Make me a deal and make it straight

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https://youtu.be/jDULlMa8Hxc
There you go. Right I’m off to bed. You tube is soo addictive.

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Originally Posted by Derby Tup

I only ever look at the forum on my phone and can’t see how to embed or do the clicky links everyone used to do. I can do quotes, but forget to, plus it’s rare anyone posts anything worth reading, never mind quoting sadly

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Switch your browser to desktop mode for more functionality.

Also, if you just want a selective quote manually typing out the quote text works.

E.g. [q uote]I can do quotes[/q uote] but with the gaps removed. I find that easier than other methods.

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Originally Posted by shaunaneto

Switch your browser to desktop mode for more functionality.

Also, if you just want a selective quote manually typing out the quote text works.

E.g. [q uote]I can do quotes[/q uote] but with the gaps removed. I find that easier than other methods.

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This makes the posts more interesting does it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiUFPjulTW8

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Originally Posted by Derby Tup

This makes the posts more interesting does it?

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For that, there is no cure

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Originally Posted by shaunaneto

For that, there is no cure

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I’d settle for just less repetitive

I fear you’ll be disappointed ...

C’est la vie

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Originally Posted by DrPatrickBarry

I have a policy of not replying to Chris's posts but this I can not let lie. What did CL mean by this crap
"Come on Stoll there's no need for cursing like Pat Barry." Also he had a go at me over my support in the N.I "Gay Cake" case. He is acting all offended now.
"Those who live in glass houses should not throw stones"

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Because I believe the gay cake case was a reflection of a lot that is wrong with this country and the thinking that drives cases like it. Your conclusions were wrong about that and I'm glad the supreme court saw sense even though for all the wrong reasons. Is there a connection between the kind of thinking on these issues and the thinking on Brexit? Absolutely!


Oh and another thing: you act in all self righteousness accusing me of nastiness towards Graham when I was just telling the truth and you're there openly cursing. As you say those in glass......

On the one hand we have John Boulton this week declaring openly and happily how the US and UK can make it happen. A let's get it done attitude, positive and uplifting. On the other hand we have the EU and its rot in hell mantra. The same can be said of Brexit adversaries. Nigel Farage's attitude that we can be an independent self governing nation that can make things better for it's people. And James O'Brian's attitude that we should stay in the EU because otherwise you'll get chlorinated chicken from America.


And he hasn't got the sense to realise the water supply here is full of the stuff.

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Originally Posted by Graham Breeze

When we were in the EU the others had to be respectful (if not overly chummy) because of our intellectual contribution, financial muscle, economic clout, etc.

Whilst the EU is a different animal from the Common Market days (and not necessarily for the better) it will have to change because of problems like Italy, Greece etc - and we could have made those changes happen because of our clout etc.

So given we were long-standing members then remaining was the only intelligent position to hold because whilst no-one could accurately forecast how calamitous the outcome of the negotiation to leave would be, a child of 5 with an IQ above 50 and a few months of playground experience would have already had enough life-experience to know that leaving would be a disaster because of spite and revenge prompted by rejection etc.

And so it has come to pass.

But hey! I have just been out for a ride in the sun on my new Italian Bianchi/Campagnolo 22 speed, after going shopping in my German car and I am now sipping a lovely French White Burgundy and planning my next holiday in Finland (EU Member since 1995)...and life will go on.

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Graham are you telling us you didn't discipline your children when they were younger because you were afraid of them holding it against you?

And is the main reason for being a remainer the ease to which you can enjoy holidays abroad?

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Originally Posted by CL

Graham are you telling us you didn't discipline your children when they were younger because you were afraid of them holding it against you?

And is the main reason for being a remainer the ease to which you can enjoy holidays abroad?

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No.

No. (And anyway neither Thailand, the good ol' USA nor Kazakhstan are in the EU).

And, for the absence of doubt, I actually like you and welcome your Forum contributions (...pause...) and, like knowing where I was when John Kennedy was shot, I remember exactly when and where I met you (to put you right about Pantani).

Here you go DT. The last paragraph of this “news” article should cheer you up.

https://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/new...-UpQvYGgNIQNTY

Annnd, Brexit is cancelled...

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...sing-telepathy

Maybe

And I was thinking to myself
'This could be heaven or this could be Hell'
Then she lit up a candle and she showed me the way

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Originally Posted by Witton Park

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiUFPjulTW8

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I’ve always been partial to a bit of folk music

And I repeat what I said
The euro is causing economic migration, indisputable fact
The euro is not the only cause of economic migration, so your post is a straw man.

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Originally Posted by DrPatrickBarry

Rubbish, Ireland has been exporting its population since the famine of the mid 1840s, I may be wrong but I don't think the Euro is that old.
In fact Ireland is the exact opposite of your argument. Over the years since joining the EEC/EU/Euro, Ireland's economy has massivly modernized, with the result that Ireland is a large net importer of people, much more so than the UK per head of population.

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Originally Posted by Oracle

And I repeat what I said
The euro is causing economic migration, indisputable fact
The euro is not the only cause of economic migration, so your post is a straw man.

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You could just as easily quote the dollar or the pound causing economic migration 🤔

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Originally Posted by Stolly

You could just as easily quote the dollar or the pound causing economic migration 🤔

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no you can't, the pound and dollar are good, it is only the Euro that is bad.

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Originally Posted by DrPatrickBarry

no you can't, the pound and dollar are good, it is only the Euro that is bad.

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Now now. No squabbling. This Forum reminds me of an interview to join the FRA Committee.


Interview Panel/ Candidate

Q1. “Do you have a sense of humour to cope with squabbling members on the Forum?”

A1 “Yes”

Q2. “Do you have the patience of Job to overcome how dim members can choose to be when interpreting FRA kit rules?”

A2. “Yes”

Q3. “Do you know anything about fellrunning?”

A3. “Sorry. Absolutely nothing at all.”

Interviewing Panel

Never mind. Congratulations! The pass mark is 2 out of 3. When can you start?:)

Having now had a chance to look briefly into Oracle's sources, it strikes me that the alleged economic woes of some southern European nations and the indisputably high youth unemployment rates are not claimed by those economists to be an inherent failing of the Euro; more a failing of interventionist central banks.

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Originally Posted by Stolly

You could just as easily quote the dollar or the pound causing economic migration ��

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Another straw man. There are several causes of economic migration, so the existence of one has no bearing on others. One provable source is the irreparable imbalance and divergence caused by the euro. It is pointless arguing. There is endless analysis of these problems, but I've yet to meet remainers who have studied any of it: most see the EU through rose tinted glasses. Or Should I tell my Greek and Italian tenants they were wrong to leave for economic reasons because fellrunners said so?

It is fascinating: I point out the massive levels of youth unemployment, now young adults with no future, and the desperate social problems it causes( including the rise of populism) yet the response is always total silence in the UK even amongst avowed socialists. As varoufakis says: We don't have real austerity here - look at Southern Europe for that. Remainers seem to prefer to pretend the suffering caused by the euro doesn't exist so long as it doesn't affect them personally. Hear no evil, see no evil.

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Originally Posted by Oracle

Another straw man. There are several causes of economic migration, so the existence of one has no bearing on others. One provable source is the irreparable imbalance and divergence caused by the euro. It is pointless arguing. There is endless analysis of these problems, but I've yet to meet remainers who have studied any of it: most see the EU through rose tinted glasses. Or Should I tell my Greek and Italian tenants they were wrong to leave for economic reasons because fellrunners said so?

It is fascinating: I point out the massive levels of youth unemployment, now young adults with no future, and the desperate social problems it causes( including the rise of populism) yet the response is always total silence in the UK even amongst avowed socialists. As varoufakis says: We don't have real austerity here - look at Southern Europe for that. Remainers seem to prefer to pretend the suffering caused by the euro doesn't exist so long as it doesn't affect them personally. Hear no evil, see no evil.

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You can't blame the Euro for intra EU migration. It has had an effect, but with freedom of movement and differing levels of economic activity people will move to better themselves, just like they move within the UK.
The Euro is one of the factors, not the factor.

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Originally Posted by noel

…. more a failing of interventionist central banks.

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banks or bank?

Well, as economic difficulties in the Southern European states existed before both the Euro and the EU. I’d go with ‘banks’.

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Originally Posted by shaunaneto

Well, as economic difficulties in the Southern European states existed before both the Euro and the EU. I’d go with ‘banks’.

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So in effect the structural issues were there before the Euro. The EU set out convergence criteria and fiddled it for some of the states entering.

Since then, they continue to ignore states, even Germany and France, who ignore the rules set out for Euro membership.


Either the rules were a red herring, economic BS, or the persistent bending of them is a problem.

I personally don't see how pre Euro central banks can be held responsible for a problem now. They haven't really been hands on for over 20 years.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...no-deal-brexit

Much head scratching here. So we couldn't manage a border with a FTA, but apparently we can manage one with No Deal.

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Originally Posted by Witton Park

banks or bank?

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They also talk about Japan, where economic stagnation is a long-standing issue. So they include national banks in this claim too.

Witton Park; It's rubbish, any "special arrangement" would be the backstop in everything but name and the DUP would never accept it.
In summary.
Mays' deal - No border.
Norway type deal - No border
No Brexit - No border.
Crash out - Border.
Deal without the backstop - Border.
So if the EU and Varadkar backdown then we end up with a border and all the social and security turmoil that will ential.

Meanwhile away from oversimplistic EU soundbites endlessly copied by remainers such as the quoted below......

EU are DELIBERATELY fomenting unrest in northern ireland by alienating unionists with a border within their own country down the irish channel. It is not just the IRA that used bombs. The only EU alternative which is insistence on a wall will alienate republicans, and no doubt wake up IRA. EU will force Varadkar to build it. so either way EU are fomenting trouble in northern ireland.

Northern ireland has few deepwater ports and airports so it is entirely possible to cope with technology as both david davies reported (a job he did before brexit vote)indeed EU reports have also considered. So allowing for the fact that no border is perfect, technology will do fine. So we will not build a border. The EU will, so blame them. Technology is the right solution. And will improve with time - but it does not suit the EU to admit it. How I hate ideologues.

The EU have deliberately weaponised the border to try to annexe northern ireland. Remainers are too illformed to se it. The deal is not a deal. it is promises of talks costing 39 billion with UK deliberstely hamstrung. Even the most starry eyed remainer must now see These are not our friends, so no deal is the only option. This is not "Mays" deal it is EU non deal, they refuse to negotiate on trade so why waste more time on them?.

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Originally Posted by DrPatrickBarry

Witton Park; It's rubbish, any "special arrangement" would be the backstop in everything but name and the DUP would never accept it.
In summary.
Mays' deal - No border.
Norway type deal - No border
No Brexit - No border.
Crash out - Border.
Deal without the backstop - Border.
So if the EU and Varadkar backdown then we end up with a border and all the social and security turmoil that will ential.

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Originally Posted by Oracle

Remainers are too lillformed to see it.

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Do you mean lillyformed? In which case, thank you, I think.

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Originally Posted by Witton Park

You can't blame the Euro for intra EU migration. It has had an effect, but with freedom of movement and differing levels of economic activity people will move to better themselves, just like they move within the UK.
The Euro is one of the factors, not the factor.

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Yes I certainly can blame the Euro. It is why southern states can never recover, so have an air of hoplessness. And it will get worse as the eurozone falls apart. I think we head for catastrophe in the wake of EU elections.

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Originally Posted by DrPatrickBarry

Witton Park; It's rubbish, any "special arrangement" would be the backstop in everything but name and the DUP would never accept it.
In summary.
Mays' deal - No border.
Norway type deal - No border
No Brexit - No border.
Crash out - Border.
Deal without the backstop - Border.
So if the EU and Varadkar backdown then we end up with a border and all the social and security turmoil that will ential.

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I think that article has exposed the backstop for the total contrived nonsense it is. Can’t say I’m surprised. I’ve said it to you all along. It’s a way of trying to prevent the UK of exercising it’s full independence and making a success of Brexit. If not perhaps you can explain why Macron said that the UK would only be allowed out of the backstop if it allowed its waters to EU fishermen. Surely the backstop is only about avoiding a hard border in Ireland, no?

So to paraphrase, what you're saying is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EH1G4EwljM

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Originally Posted by noel

Do you mean lillyformed? In which case, thank you, I think.

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Quite possibly.

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Originally Posted by noel

Having now had a chance to look briefly into Oracle's sources, it strikes me that the alleged economic woes of some southern European nations and the indisputably high youth unemployment rates are not claimed by those economists to be an inherent failing of the Euro; more a failing of interventionist central banks.

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One of the problems of the euro is that the members don’t have their own independent central bank. They aren’t able to adopt monetary policies that are right for their countries at any point in time. So for example after the financial crisis the UK slashed its interest rates and introduced QE much more quickly than the eurozone did. Eventually the eurozone did the same but initially the ECB bizarrely increased rates because of German concerns about inflation. What’s right for the German economy is totally different to the Greek or Italian economy. A one size fits all policy doesn’t work.

Government in turmoil, minority banging a drum, no leadership and relegation looming.

In football terms the song would be "Sack the board"

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Originally Posted by Muddy Retriever

One of the problems of the euro is that the members don’t have their own independent central bank. They aren’t able to adopt monetary policies that are right for their countries at any point in time. So for example after the financial crisis the UK slashed its interest rates and introduced QE much more quickly than the eurozone did. Eventually the eurozone did the same but initially the ECB bizarrely increased rates because of German concerns about inflation. What’s right for the German economy is totally different to the Greek or Italian economy. A one size fits all policy doesn’t work.

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You mean a bit like the economy of Utah not being the same as New York City’s, or Shanghai’s economy not being the same as Inner Mongolia’s, or Hartlepool’s economy not being the same as Hackney’s? 🤔