Brexit

Bit of a flaw in that argument. Trying googling "UK unemployment rate 2016" You will find it is about 5%. When it gets that low you are starting to get into very difficult to employ people. Many (not all) of these people are not interested in working/incapable of providing good value for money to employers. Without immigration business would suffer due to lack of good people.

I guess a large proportion of these people who bothered to vote; voted brexit because they are looking for somebody to blame. Possible they shoudl try looking in the mirror.

I have had two stints of unemployment of over a year and I can assure you it is some of the most depressing things that can happen to a person. The last time I was unemployed (with my PHD) and signing-on the woman at the job centre was apologising to me for making me provide evidence of my job applications as they (quote) "don't get my type of people around here".

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Originally Posted by DrPatrickBarry

Bit of a flaw in that argument. Trying googling "UK unemployment rate 2016" You will find it is about 5%. When it gets that low you are starting to get into very difficult to employ people. Many (not all) of these people are not interested in working/incapable of providing good value for money to employers. Without immigration business would suffer due to lack of good people.

I guess a large proportion of these people who bothered to vote; voted brexit because they are looking for somebody to blame. Possible they shoudl try looking in the mirror.

I have had two stints of unemployment of over a year and I can assure you it is some of the most depressing things that can happen to a person. The last time I was unemployed (with my PHD) and signing-on the woman at the job centre was apologising to me for making me provide evidence of my job applications as they (quote) "don't get my type of people around here".

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I disagree with you - sorry.

The unemployment rate is one figure. It gives an indication and of course if it drops has it has been doing consistently for a while it is a useful indicator.

But there is a large pool of part-timers. You go in to any supermarket, fast food joint, the care industry, general retail.
Lots of jobs, makes the employment stats look good, but we could "lose" 500,000 employees very easily and the people on part-time or out of work can take up that slack, earn that money, afford a house, a holiday.....

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Originally Posted by Witton Park

My two daughters went to Uni and voted Leave - they live away from home and make their own decisions. They still have access to the world and I doubt that will change.
The Erasmus programme involves 33 nations so I think there is a good chance it will be unaffected.

But I know a few 18-21 year olds not at Uni. A couple work at a local supermarket. One is on a 20 hour contract and the other on 25 hours.
They are stock assistants on £7.00 an hour give or take.
They typically get shifts of 5-6 hours which ties up 4 working days for the sake of part-time work.
They cannot take another job, because the shifts can vary from a 6-12 morning, 12-6 daytime or 5-11 evening and occasional nigh shifts.
They rarely get 4 days on, 3 off as the shift patterns tend to be random.
So take home pay is around £150 a week.

One is a Dad. They cannot consider travelling, gap years and celebrating the various cultures and experiences to be had around the world.

It could be their fault.
They could be let down by the education system.
They could be let down by the state.

But they are where they are and what is their future? They want more hours so they aren't lazy, in fact both are grafters, but full-time is not available and is rare these days within the industry and at the level they work in.

Government policy is certainly partly responsible, but so is freedom of movement which allows the pool of unskilled labour to be artificially high.
They do work with EU migrants and they get on with them, socialise with them and they are also grafters.

But would they have the opportunity for extra hours if they hadn't come to work in the UK?
Would they have the opportunity for overtime at higher rates per hour?

I think that is quite likely and it's certainly what they feel.

I'm just trying to outline that there is another perspective. What we had perhaps works for many, but it doesn't work for many.

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I imagine there wouldn’t be any extra hours needed. Immigration brings money into a community which is spent in the shops and supermarkets.

Where I work there are large numbers of Eastern Europeans, without them the local economy would be kaput

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Originally Posted by luxinterior

I imagine there wouldn’t be any extra hours needed. Immigration brings money into a community which is spent in the shops and supermarkets.

Where I work there are large numbers of Eastern Europeans, without them the local economy would be kaput

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You could say immigration both brings money into the community and consumes resources, I wouldn't like to say what the balance is here.

For me it's not immigration per-se but the fact that an economy based on an ever expanding population is bound to fail.

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Originally Posted by bigfella

For me it's not immigration per-se but the fact that an economy based on an ever expanding population is bound to fail.

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In theory true, but somebody has to generate the income to take care of the economically inaative part of the population, which, with growing life expectancy, is increasing.

Now I suppose if somebody could sell the idea of soylent green....

Or the Running Man!

How does 1 person earning 300 or 2 people earning 150 bring extra money in to the economy?

What it tends to mean less NI and tax taken and tax credits and related benefits paid out, regardless of whether they are migrant workers or not.

That's the issue I'm referring to and it's widespread.

I know one company that puts a 30 hour weekly cap on. Staff have had to knock off mid-shift when they have reached their 30 hours, leaving a short-team to finish the shift.
In another instance the supervising manager got to 30 hours and they couldn't continue without a manager, so the shift finished early.
It saves a fortune in NI and also remember the new workplace pensions that are also a good reason to have more part-timers.

I've not been banging on about zero hours contracts, but many have. No security, no chance of a mortgage.

In addition to zero hours, there's the part-time contracts.

They don't give you a chance.

People talk about the youth vote. Most of those 18-24s registered didn't vote because they do not feel they have a stake in the system.
Then there's those not registered.

Imagine the doctors, if we brought in another 10,000 from abroad and cut all their hours to 25 per week average and paid them the commensurate hourly rate.
There'd be uproar.

That's what is happening in many of the unskilled jobs in warehouses, retail and care sector.

I agree with all of that WP. Thing is, how will Brexit fix it?

What about those who send their earnings back home to families.
How does that help the local economy?

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Originally Posted by Stagger

What about those who send their earnings back home to families.
How does that help the local economy?

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Where do these people live? And how do they feed themselves, heat themselves, clothe themselves and entertain themselves?