Slowing down to speed up?

Not a bad idea that. If nothing else it will stop me bolting at the start with delusions of grandure (small ones, as in a top 20 finish...) and, like you said, far more relaxing over taking than been over taken!

The other thing I was thinking was staying next to/behind a guy who has always caught me at the top of the climb - I don't normally see him till I'm near the summit, but he always gets me in the end. I figured this would show if I'm going off too quick or am just a weak climber. I'll know it's the latter if we start the climb level and he pulls away.

Anyway, trying not to over think things - like Noel said, if you're fit enough, you'll be fast enough...

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Originally Posted by Robin S

I remember the course for the 10k feeling contrived last year

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What! A sensible mixture of high Cam Roads and natural horseshoes only for me :w00t:

Simply put though you are starting too quickly. Even a short race gives you plenty of time to catch up. Train for steep climbs and you'll soon get the hang of it.

Pacing a race is a personal thing so to be honest, listening to how others do it is not very helpful. How fast you can go and sustain is a function of fitness, confidence and experience. When you are fit and confident you can go off very fast, knowing that you can handle it; and experience adds in the innate ability to make an allowance for up/down hill and terrain preferences.

The problem is 'what does fit mean?' that's the variable for different races so you need to match your type of fitness to the race type/distance (i.e. manage your expectations).

Once you know runners the easiest tactic is to hook up early with those you want to finish around (being realistic). In long races, for the majority a steady start pays off - you will often see canny runners who are very good, pulling through as the race progresses. Short races, well everyone just has to go for it.

So what you really want to know is whether, after 25 years, you will be any better at sussing this out?


Nah, ya won't! Exactly the same me for ever since I first raced back in '86. On any race under 7-8 miles I basically just go for it. If I can keep it up, I know its gonna be a good day. If I flag, I know its gonna be a bit tougher.
But, taking it to extremes, I have several times blown up early in race and literally pulled over and sat down for a rest. After a few moments, everything seems to settle and I get back going again and usually pass everyone who overtook me within a few hundred yards. So, I've never been put off the fast start for a short/medium race.
Longs are something else. Then I make a special effort to rein myself in. Best advice I can give is to peg yourself back with someone who you know will usually beat you on a long (and hope he's not having a bad one himself!!)

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Originally Posted by noel

These days I put it all down to fitness. If I'm fit enough to finish in the top 10, I will. It takes a lot of pressure off. I still push hard and know my strengths and weaknesses, but I'm less likely to get my split very wrong [famous last words...]

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I noticed this thread had resurfaced and re-read what I'd said previously. They were famous last words indeed. I did Kinder Downfall yesterday and had to stop racing after about half way round the course having got my split completely wrong. :)

The big thing about fell races and I guess xc and some trail, is that you often need to learn the route to get you're absolute best out of yourself. Then just as you've got it sussed you go off too hard and blow-up half way round!!! Shorts up to say 4 mile I'd go hard on (...this is assuming I'm fit!), longs over 10 mile I reign myself in so I go as even pace as I can, probably more even heart rate tbh. Its the ones in the middle I still have to think about and all this depends on amount of climb, terrain etc!

Hadn't checked back here in a while but thanks for the more recent replies people.

So I'm a few more races older but not much wiser it seems!

After a decent finish to the South Wales Winter league (for my first season anyway), I'm still having trouble reigning it in. Ran the Exmoor Endurance Life 10k (well, 7.3 miles) and did the same again. Went off fast - led for the first km or so - then, at the start of the climb, started leaking places. Felt dreadful nearing the top of the main climb but, interestingly, as soon as things leveled out I felt great, clawed a couple back and closed the gap to those still in front of me from the 4 mile checkpoint to the finish. We'll see what difference knowing the courses makes in the Winter league this year - must surely help (although knowing what's coming for Blorenge might not...!).

Intuitively, and increasingly empirically, Tim K seems to be right: "Simply put though you are starting too quickly. Even a short race gives you plenty of time to catch up. Train for steep climbs and you'll soon get the hang of it."

Conclusion? I'm a flat specialist in the land of hill/fell racing!

Am running the 'Beast' (23 miles or so) at the weekend so will definitely start steady at my 'I could run all day pace' and see how I go.

Cheers all. Honestly much appreciated.

Sounds to me like if you crack it you could go places :)

Personally I do think you can learn over time but as everyone will keep telling you there are lots of variables that affect how a race works out. Enjoy your long race and just think of how much you'll have left in the tank for the second half if you start well within yourself (don't let them get too far out of sight though....:wink:)

cheers
Tim

Cheers Tim - will definitely bear those words in mind!

At the risk of turning this thread in to the Diary of a Novice Fell Runner, the Beast (all 23.5 miles of it...) went pretty well. Took it easy (although probably could have eased off even more) for the first 12/13 miles or so and felt ok. Hit a real rough patch around about 17 miles (just before the last climb...) but kept plodding on.

Was also getting cramp in my calves when transitioning from ascent to flat/descent in the second half of the race which wasn't much fun (any advice here? eating? hydration?), but dragged myself round in 4:13.