only if they come when called.Quote:
Originally Posted by IainR
Printable View
only if they come when called.Quote:
Originally Posted by IainR
Indeed as am I - but returning to the issue of substance and putting it back into real context, it is 0.01% or less of winter hill for one hour of only once a year for one hundred runners. The birds have most of it most of the time so their populations are wholly unaffected in any material way ie the argument is totally specious dreamed up by someone with too much time and not enough job to fill it with.Quote:
Originally Posted by richsund
I object on REAL countryside issues, rather than imagined ones, where fellrunners cause permanent damage, take the scree from scafell pike on borrowdale being worn out by the race - we should not.
I have had a number of angry exchanges with runners dropping gel wrappers and similar things.
I object to mountain bikes most of the time, footpaths or bridleways either for the most part, because of the simple equation that mountain bikers ignore. wheel+soft ground+gradient = continuous groove. Groove + downpour = massive gouge, Gouge channels mountain bikers and more water making it very much worse. They routinely destroy paths causing very expensive damage and repairs. My view is they have no place in hill country. boots have nowhere near the same power to create a water course in a path. The constant destruction of the paths around darwin tower for example are a legacy to mountain biker stupidity. UU should focus energy on real problems such as those, by banning bikers from their land, not imaginary ones like fellrunners.
But as for the plight of a handful of birds in a minute proportion of millions of acres for one day?
Someone should be given a more useful job like stocktaking paperclips daily instead, instead of banning fellraces.
The only places I have ever seen signs up banning dog access 'due to ground nesting birds' is on shooting moors. It all about justifying their own massive self interest if you ask me. The moorland association even go out of their way to 'control' predators (aka have more shooting fun) and, surprise, surprise pin that on the protection of ground nesting birds too.
Yep, that's certainly the impression I get in Calderdale. Wouldn't be surprised if the grouse moor owners get paid by some quango or other for all this wonderful conservation work they are doing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stolly
Generally I agree. There are other areas trying to protect other ground-nesting birds though, so if you see such signs away from the moors they are likely to be for nature conservation reasons: plovers & skuas nest on the ground for instance. Mind you, small dogs are probably more at risk from the skuas than vice versa.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stolly
Thanks Splatcher. Good to hear that, and I personally would respect any signage in those circumstances. It's such a shame that genuine conservation gets so mixed up with grouse moor management, but I suspect that's just the way the moor owners like it...
I have to say Pennine as a club are mindfull of these issues on our Thursday runs in the Kinder area. During nesting time we try to stay to foot paths and pay particular care to the members' dogs.
here in Littleborough just outside rochdale we came across a raft of new signs last night... ''ground nesting birds keep out'' ''no dogs'' ''conservation area'' this on a stretch land beside a stream in a man made culvert besides what was once a farm track but is now a drive to a private house that has a lot of work done recently including the felling of many trees.. the branches of which would have been similar to those which have recently found there way into a nice pile in the ''conservation area''..
badge of convienance?
Really? Mountain biking has only really been popular for 20-25 years and the number of participants and the erosion they cause is minimal compared to walkers. The vast majority of mountain bikers don't enjoy mud plugging and will avoid soft trails if possible. Yes, there are exceptions but there's an antisocial minority in every pastime. It's also easy to point out specific trails but again, the same could be applied to scars of the landscape that have never seen a knobbly tyre. Also, a large proportion of mountain bikers ride exclusively at the ever increasing number or purpose built trail centres so, although the amount of mountain bikers is increasing, the traffic on "natural trails" is probably no more. It's sounds as though you've had a few bad experiences with a few bad mountain bikers and are tarring them all with the same reactionary brush.Quote:
Originally Posted by alwaysinjured
Haha. I always worry about my dog being taken out when there are mountain bikers about ;). He doesn't bother chasing ground nesting birds... or mountain bikers for that matter. Like I said before this is all about land owners/managers users lame excuses to restrict access. Having run 140 miles of the cornish coastline a few weeks ago it came as no surprize that the only place that there were signs trying to scare walkers about the danger from adders was where the completely open access path passed through the miltary owned firing ranges for about 5 miles - they were exagerating adder attack so as to either put off walkers completely or keep them solidly on the path... staring at the ground.... looking out for adders.