best fell runner ever ?

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Originally Posted by IainR

I think CD, 10 Welsh 1000m Peaks wins, how many did Billy have? :-)

3000ers record too.

For his career longevity, 49 and winner of Knock Du, awesome to stay at the top for so long.

Comparing Donelly, Bland, Mudge et al though is like comparing Cloughie, Shankly, Paisley and the great Sir Alex. All top of their game.

But then Kenny S held and still holds records of so many great races, e.g Snowdon and the Ben.

Yeah Wellington race route, while tough, was basically a hilly trail route, hardest part was probably that road section. Ran it many times when living there.

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Criteria are everything. I discussed all this in my little opus Il Campionissimo in the June 2001 The Fellrunner.

For example Carol Greenwood at the time held over 50 women's records and still holds eg Snowdon. She won the Ben, 3 PPP; but not Wasdale or Ennerdale.

Ian Holmes has won 8 English Gold Medals but admits he is not good on long tough lakeland race which some would argue are the real test for fell runners.

In my article I concluded that based on eight Classic Fell Races, every day things like The Ben, Jura, Peris, PPP, 1000M, Borrowdale, Ennerdale, Wasdale: that over the previous 15 years the outstanding runners were Colin Donnelly and Angela Brand-Barker but Angela Mudge would become even better.

Clearly I was right about Angela but importantly I excluded Billy Bland from consideration because of the criteria for the article. In effect I was saying "clearly BB is the best" but I need to write 2500 words about other runners so who else is there? The answer to that was Colin D.

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Originally Posted by dylan

Ricky Wilde gave Kenny Stuart a good run for his money.

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Are you sure you aren't confusing Ricky Wilde with John Wild? Kenny Stuart and John Wild had some epic contests about 1983/1984.

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Originally Posted by Witton Park

I don't want to denigrate any of these runners as they were clearly top class Nationally and will be legends of Fell Running.

But were they world class?

How did they do "offshore"? You can look at the likes of David Lewis and Glynn Tromans on the Cross Country who were almost unbeatable at a National level, but in the World Cross never really performed.

Did these fell runners do it on the international stage?

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Is it possible to be "world class" at fell-running? - which, by definition, is only run in Britain?

Colin Donnelly had (and still has) the speed and endurance to set many more records. Hes has more or less soloed every long distance challenge there is without support or route advice. If he was better organised, he could have achieved more than anyone else.
Perhaps that is the way the great man likes things to be: out there on his own, doing things his own way.
Yiannis

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Originally Posted by Witton Park

I don't want to denigrate any of these runners as they were clearly top class Nationally and will be legends of Fell Running.

But were they world class?

How did they do "offshore"? You can look at the likes of David Lewis and Glynn Tromans on the Cross Country who were almost unbeatable at a National level, but in the World Cross never really performed.

Did these fell runners do it on the international stage?

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...martin jones?!

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Originally Posted by Roadrunner

Now Graham I didn't need to add the course was totally different to that one would expect of a WMRT up and downhill. I have only ever seen pictures of the race with runners on tarmac!!!!

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I actually have DVD of the WMRT from 2005 in New Zealand- the course was an absolute dream for road runners like Wyatt and yon lady that won...forget her name ....it wasnt Melissa Moon- it was the other NZ cross country champion lady, Kate somebody. There's a great shot of Lloyd in the leading pack for the 1st half mile...

Anyways, interesting course- bloody dvd cost me £19! Every other word on the DVD is WYATT

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Originally Posted by FellMonster

I actually have DVD of the WMRT from 2005 in New Zealand- the course was an absolute dream for road runners like Wyatt and yon lady that won...forget her name ....it wasnt Melissa Moon- it was the other NZ cross country champion lady, Kate somebody. There's a great shot of Lloyd in the leading pack for the 1st half mile...

Anyways, interesting course- bloody dvd cost me £19! Every other word on the DVD is WYATT

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Kate McIlroy

Lloyd was a star. He was second English counter 2 places just behind Billy Burns but as some may recall he had "lost" his passport and failed to turn up at Heathrow for the New Zealand flight and arrived in NZ several days late. However it did all secure him a Profile (with Jackie) in The Fellrunner so hey!

Hmm....sounds suspect if you ask me- "lost" passport.
Buying duty free and pro plus no doubt the sneaky devil......yeah, he'd a great run that day. Went off much too fast he'll admit though

Best at what? The question really should be who, if all the stars lined up over various distances and courses at their peak, would win.

From what I've read of the history of the sport, at the short events it would be a close race between R.S.Wilde and John Wild. The same again at medium events with Kenny Stuart closing in. Then Stuart for the long.

In my opinion the greatest fellrunners of all time are Joss Naylor and Helene Diamentides.

I personally have always preferred long solitary runs through the hills rather than races (although I've done my fair share) so I suppose my opinion is slightly swayed this way.

However if race performances are taken as the main criteria then I would say Billy Bland and Angela Mudge.

Incidentally Angela is one Briton who has performed at top level in many different parts of the world