Welsh 3000's

Weather permitting I'm planning to attempt the 3000 on Thursday. Solo and no support so thinking of starting at Pen y Pass, nipping up the Glyders and Tryfan then down to the valley and doing the Carnedd range. Want to these early on as its the section I'm not familiar with, so better to do it while I'm reasonably fresh.
Then I'll do Y Garn and Elidir and down to Nant Peris. Crawl up to to Clogwyn and tourist path up Snowdon and then finish on the ridge to Crib Goch.

Can't think of much better way to do it unsupported ?

Umm, thats a bit bonkers! Its a hell of a long way back from Foel Fras! In fact I doubt you would do all that in day. My plan (for when I finally complete the bl**dy thing!) is to catch the bus from Aber back to Bangor and then bus/cab to Llanberis.

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Originally Posted by Wheeze

Umm, thats a bit bonkers! Its a hell of a long way back from Foel Fras! In fact I doubt you would do all that in day. My plan (for when I finally complete the bl**dy thing!) is to catch the bus from Aber back to Bangor and then bus/cab to Llanberis.

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Or Wheeze, you can go from Foel Fras back down to Bethesda just as easily and probably have a better bus service to llanberis available?

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Originally Posted by Wheeze

Umm, thats a bit bonkers! Its a hell of a long way back from Foel Fras! In fact I doubt you would do all that in day. My plan (for when I finally complete the bl**dy thing!) is to catch the bus from Aber back to Bangor and then bus/cab to Llanberis.

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Maybe a bit bonkers but possible. Reckon its about 35 miles ?

Planning now to park near Glen Dena and do the Carnedd section first.

Any idea if theres an easyish way back from Foel Fras ? i.e one that avoids going back over any of the peaks

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Originally Posted by Will.Race

Maybe a bit bonkers but possible. Reckon its about 35 miles ?

Planning now to park near Glen Dena and do the Carnedd section first.

Any idea if theres an easyish way back from Foel Fras ? i.e one that avoids going back over any of the peaks

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It couldn't be much easier getting from Foel Fras back to Glan Dena, there is less than 300m of ascent (assuming you have dealt with Yr Elen on the way out to Foel Fras).
Get to the broad ridge above the Black Ladders and descend to Cwm Lloer (pathless but unchallenging), then straight down the side of the stream to the A5.

I advise from a mountain walker's perspective.

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Originally Posted by Joester

It couldn't be much easier getting from Foel Fras back to Glan Dena, there is less than 300m of ascent (assuming you have dealt with Yr Elen on the way out to Foel Fras).
Get to the broad ridge above the Black Ladders and descend to Cwm Lloer (pathless but unchallenging), then straight down the side of the stream to the A5.

I advise from a mountain walker's perspective.

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Thanks Joester. Yes I'll be doing Yr Elen on the way out.

Just weighing up whether to do the Carnedd section first or last. Ideally I want clear weather for the Carnedd bit as its the one part of the route I haven't done

The only other bit that concerns me is Crib Goch. Mate an I attempted this a few weeks ago climbing off the Pyg track at Bwlch y Moch. Got half way and came to a vertical rock face ( am not the greatest on steep rock ) and couldn't see any way up. It was pretty dark though as we'd started from Pen y pass at 4:30

Following a 'path of least resistance' from Bwlch y Moch (in the light you can see where many others have been), you will reach a very short section about 1/2 way up that is almost vertical, but it is a single, easy move and you're up it and straight back onto simple 'hands and feet' scrambling.
The exposure of the ridge can be unsettling if you aren't used to such things.

Make sure you get CG done with at least partial daylight around, and I would strongly advise recceing it so you know exacly what is in store.

The pinnacles at the end of the ridge can be a bit of a puzzle if you haven't negotiated them before, and once you're done with all that you've got Garnedd Ugain to scramble up as well - and the first bit of that can look very steep and intimidating in the clag (and I suppose in failing light too), but is actually very easy and entertaining scrambling.

Keep your wits about you on your recce and make sure you notice the exact way in which you negotiate each obstacle.
That sounds like an odd thing to say, but the adrenelin rush you will get from crossing the ridge for the first time will mean that the pinnacles (etc) go by in a flash and you won't be able to remember much about it afterwards. Keep calm and make sure everything is commited to memory as you make your way over.

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Originally Posted by Joester

Following a 'path of least resistance' from Bwlch y Moch (in the light you can see where many others have been), you will reach a very short section about 1/2 way up that is almost vertical, but it is a single, easy move and you're up it and straight back onto simple 'hands and feet' scrambling.
The exposure of the ridge can be unsettling if you aren't used to such things.

Make sure you get CG done with at least partial daylight around, and I would strongly advise recceing it so you know exacly what is in store.

The pinnacles at the end of the ridge can be a bit of a puzzle if you haven't negotiated them before, and once you're done with all that you've got Garnedd Ugain to scramble up as well - and the first bit of that can look very steep and intimidating in the clag (and I suppose in failing light too), but is actually very easy and entertaining scrambling.

Keep your wits about you on your recce and make sure you notice the exact way in which you negotiate each obstacle.
That sounds like an odd thing to say, but the adrenelin rush you will get from crossing the ridge for the first time will mean that the pinnacles (etc) go by in a flash and you won't be able to remember much about it afterwards. Keep calm and make sure everything is commited to memory as you make your way over.

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The recce was a couple of weeks ago. We did the Snowdon sector without Crib Goch and then all the peaks from Elidir fawr to Tryfan. Tomorrow is a full solo attempt.

I'll be on CG in daylight whether I do it first or last. Plan is to start around 6:00 am and finish 10-12 hours later.

Thanks for the advice. Will let you know how it goes.

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Originally Posted by Corniceman

Or Wheeze, you can go from Foel Fras back down to Bethesda just as easily and probably have a better bus service to llanberis available?

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How dim am I? Never really thought of that, just looked for quickest way off the hill but I suspect it,s not much longer to Bethesda than Aber. Thats a great tip and makes a true solo attempt much more reasonable.

Hadn't thought about public transport but will do for future attempts.

My solo route turned out to be far too ambitous for someone of my reasonable but not great fitness level.

6:00 am am start. Carnedd section covered in fog so from Glan Dena I scrambled up Tryfan. Recent rain made the boulders pretty tricky so by the time I got to the bottom of the approach to the first Glyder I was already behind schedule. Glyders to Elidir Fawr was straightforward as the fog had cleared and the sun was out. Elidir descent was wet but got to nant Peris in good shape.
Decided on the scramble up from NP to below Clogwyn, found this a lot easier up than down, and then tourist path up to Snowdon. Crib Goch ridge was a bit treachorous as the fog had returned. Took it slow though and got to Pen y Pass ok. Then the lack of fitness told and I cramped up climibng back over to Glan Dena. By the time I got back to the car I was struggling and the thought of 6 more climbs and then the trek back from Foel Fras to the car did not appeal. The thought of the bottles of cold cider in my fridge definitely did appeal.

Decent recce though and lessons learnt.

Hoepfully join someone else for a successful attempt next year ?

Hate to say I told you so but an impressive outing nonetheless! Would really enjoy a
mass run of this next year but I shall still want to nail a solo attempt. The Bethesda tip makes this much more practical.

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Originally Posted by Wheeze

How dim am I? Never really thought of that, just looked for quickest way off the hill but I suspect it,s not much longer to Bethesda than Aber. Thats a great tip and makes a true solo attempt much more reasonable.

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It doesn't make much difference if you catch a bus from Aber or Bethesda as neither has a direct bus service to Llanberis so you'd have to go to Bangor first and then catch a bus to Llanberis from Bangor. As both Aber and Bethesda are of a similar distance to Bangor and both have good bus services to the city then your best bet would be to take the shorter route down to Aber from Foel Fras.

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Originally Posted by Wheeze

Hate to say I told you so but an impressive outing nonetheless! Would really enjoy a
mass run of this next year but I shall still want to nail a solo attempt. The Bethesda tip makes this much more practical.

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Yes was a long shot, particularly as I've not dot done anything over 20 miles since a 3 Peaks recce in Feb . Good day out though and the lack of stamina has given me the motivation for some better winter training.

Reckon there'll be a few up for a mass attempt next year. Like yourself I'd like to solo it too.

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Originally Posted by Llechan Wlyb

It doesn't make much difference if you catch a bus from Aber or Bethesda as neither has a direct bus service to Llanberis so you'd have to go to Bangor first and then catch a bus to Llanberis from Bangor. As both Aber and Bethesda are of a similar distance to Bangor and both have good bus services to the city then your best bet would be to take the shorter route down to Aber from Foel Fras.

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Thanks Llechan thats good extra info. Perhaps I ain't so dim after all!

When I did the 3000ers I left the car in a lay-by just off the A5 below Tryfan and set off up the concrete road via Craig yr ysfa to Carnedd Llewelyn. Then out to Foel Fras and back the same way to CL, then Carnedd Dayfyd, Pen yr ole Wen and back to the car for a bite to eat and drink + restock, before setting off over Tryfan and Glyders. At Pen y Pass I was prepared to jog down road to P-Y-G then walk up the big climb over to Cwm Tryfan and back to the car, but managed to get a lift from the car park round to Ogwen. Not sure if this properly qualifies as unsupported though?

I know it's not in the same boat as running it, but I walked the Welsh 3s yesterday and it took 11 hours 30 mins summit to summit. Mind you, it was damn windy and very rainy all the way from PYP to Ogwen.

I felt surprisingly good all the way around, so definitely going to give a go at running it next year!

Morning all , me and a pal are having a bash at the 3000ers (been on my to do list for a couple of years now) on sat and wonderd if anyone had any advice on0the route ? Were camping round tryfan and can get a lift to snowdon , read turnbull and clayton book and was following that route then on last sumit turning round and retracing to lyn ogwen and then back to campsite . More of a steady training day and enjoy the route sort of day any advice welcome and anyone fancy a steady day welcome :-)

Which bits..

If you want a quick summit to summit time, walk or train up Snowdon > Carnedd Ugain > Crib Goch, turn around and return to bwlch Coch > Cwm Glas > Nant Peris > main path up Elidir usual route to Tryfan.


From there you have two options, down the west gully to the base of that, some steps, you can either carry on to Ogwen Cottage, or descend right down to the milestone butress. I prefer using Ogwen as its a nicer descent.

From Ogwen head tO Carnedd Llewelyn but traverse left along a trod, hold your height and arrive at Yr Elen.. then of out to the end...

The only big choices are how to start, returning to bwlch coch and what to do between Tryfan and Pen Yr Ole Wen.

My advice would be to keep your eye out for me, 'cos I happen to be walking this on Saturday as a warm-up for running it with the Vegans next month (when you say 'steady day', do you mean a steady day's running?)

Three of us will be starting from PYP at approx 4am, and doing C.Goch first, then G. Ugain and Snowdon.

Prefered descent from Snowdon:

"Walk down the Llanberis path, veer off behind Clogwyn Station, follow the railway track down through ‘Rocky Valley’ and you will see a fence on your left bordering the steep ground that drops to Nant Peris. Follow this fence until it veers right, and there lies a little stile. The stile marks the start of a faint path down to Gwastadnant that it quite steep but not punishingly so. It ends at the bank of the Afon Nant Peris very close to the footbridge at SH 608 579. Job’s a good ‘un"

For descending Tryfan, we always drop back down the south ridge, veering right a little to pick up a scree gully that takes you down nearly the shores of Llyn Bochllwyd, it's indirect but not so steep.

My report of a walking version, including further route description and lots of nice photos here:

http://www.walkingforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=14564.0

We raised £1240 for MRT.

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Originally Posted by Joester

My advice would be to keep your eye out for me, 'cos I happen to be walking this on Saturday as a warm-up for running it with the Vegans next month (when you say 'steady day', do you mean a steady day's running?)

Three of us will be starting from PYP at approx 4am, and doing C.Goch first, then G. Ugain and Snowdon.

Prefered descent from Snowdon:

"Walk down the Llanberis path, veer off behind Clogwyn Station, follow the railway track down through ‘Rocky Valley’ and you will see a fence on your left bordering the steep ground that drops to Nant Peris. Follow this fence until it veers right, and there lies a little stile. The stile marks the start of a faint path down to Gwastadnant that it quite steep but not punishingly so. It ends at the bank of the Afon Nant Peris very close to the footbridge at SH 608 579. Job’s a good ‘un"

For descending Tryfan, we always drop back down the south ridge, veering right a little to pick up a scree gully that takes you down nearly the shores of Llyn Bochllwyd, it's indirect but not so steep.

My report of a walking version, including further route description and lots of nice photos here:

http://www.walkingforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=14564.0

We raised £1240 for MRT.

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The Tryfan descent is OK, just head down the North ridge for 20 yards then drop off.. The south ridge is rough anyway and you add a fair bit of distance..

Re your descent. We use a later one when guiding the 3000ers, from a top after Llechogg roughly SH 601 574. Its not as steep and also removes all the road section, but if its cloudy or wet don't take it.. CWm Hetiau (your one) is used by others but there have been a few accidents there..

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Originally Posted by IainR

The Tryfan descent is OK, just head down the North ridge for 20 yards then drop off.. The south ridge is rough anyway and you add a fair bit of distance..
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It's a personal thing, I'd rather clamber over a few boulders than walk down a really steep slope, it hurts my knees less!

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Originally Posted by IainR

Re your descent. We use a later one when guiding the 3000ers, from a top after Llechogg roughly SH 601 574. Its not as steep and also removes all the road section, but if its cloudy or wet don't take it.. CWm Hetiau (your one) is used by others but there have been a few accidents there..

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No, my description aims to describe the former. The stile is 'where the 1:25k map states '610' on the contours, and that's at the grid ref. you state (ish).
We're at this point in the 13th photo in my report.
Again, this is a preference to avoid the steep ground of Cwms Hetiau and Glas Bach. As you say, there's about 200 yrds on the road before you get to Nant Peris car park.

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Originally Posted by Joester

It's a personal thing, I'd rather clamber over a few boulders than walk down a really steep slope, it hurts my knees less!



No, my description aims to describe the former. The stile is 'where the 1:25k map states '610' on the contours, and that's at the grid ref. you state (ish).
We're at this point in the 13th photo in my report.
Again, this is a preference to avoid the steep ground of Cwms Hetiau and Glas Bach. As you say, there's about 200 yrds on the road before you get to Nant Peris car park.

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Ah Ok.. yeah agree that's better than Hetiau.. but if going for a quick time peak to peak I think Snowdon summit > CG > bwlch Coch and Nant is the optimal route.. but valley to valley its quicker to drop our way..

With walking groups who aren't so anal about record times we almost always use the way you suggest.. but once in terrible weather I descended down to Llanberis and went up through the quarries.. the group loved that though, quite a change. We did Crib Goch at 4 am and could see the storm coming in and it hit as we arrived at Carnedd Ugain summit.. in the end they dropped out at Tryfan though as it just got worse and they realised they had ran out of pub time...

Just read your report.. good one.. great photos..

Thanks, it was a rare day (although Saturday's looking promising too!).

Call me a fair weather walker/runner, but I think if the weather was bad I'd soon sack it off!

Old Un - could you tell me what you look like so I can keep an eye out for you? I assume you don't actually look like Grandpa Flump?

Hi chaps thanks for info most helpfull I'll put against the map when I get in . Joester - I'm 5.10ish crew cut hair middle aged and talk too much so you'll hear me before u see me probably and will be in a blue zip neck tshirt with a youngef lad. Were going to have jog round hopefully but more intrested in enjoying the day and doing this classic than clocking a time. The weather is looking promising too. Ianr- Is it worth carrying a camelback or is there enough drinkable stream water on way round for abottle ?

Oops meant to ask joester what will your possy be and we'll keep a look out for you mate .

I suspect you'll have reliable water at Llyn y Cwn, as you climb Glyder Fawr, then Ogwen, and then again as you traverse under Carnedd Llewelyn you cross a spring. Otherwise there's also a tap in Nant Peris..There's not much on Snowdon.. you'll get some as you decsend the llechogg flanks..

I always risk it and go summit to Nant > the glyders water > carneddau spring.. which should still be running this early in the year. You can sometimes get water as you climb elidir and as you traverse under Mynydd Perfedd but that's far more unreliable.. it depends how quick you'll be between, the weather and how much you want to risk it.. I'd be tempted to take a camel back if you aren't pushing for a quick time..

Cheers ian I'll take the camel this time then :-)

Hi old un.
There will be three of us (maybe four), walking. I'm the chap with the dark green sunhat and black tshirt in that report I linked to. I shall probably have the sunhat on again this Saturday. The thin ginger-haired lady in the report will be with me (if you hear squeeling on Crib Goch, it's her), I haven't met the 3rd chap at this moment in time.
We have support in Nant Peris and Ogwen, so if we do happen to bump into you near either of those places you are welcome to share our water/drinks/nibbles.

hi joester thanks for the offer thats really good of you and appreciated were setting off a bitt later than you but hope to catch and meet you. my mates no climber either so will probably cry just as much. hopefully see you sat :thumbup:

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Originally Posted by IainR

Which bits..

If you want a quick summit to summit time, walk or train up Snowdon > Carnedd Ugain > Crib Goch, turn around and return to bwlch Coch > Cwm Glas > Nant Peris > main path up Elidir usual route to Tryfan.


From there you have two options, down the west gully to the base of that, some steps, you can either carry on to Ogwen Cottage, or descend right down to the milestone butress. I prefer using Ogwen as its a nicer descent.

From Ogwen head tO Carnedd Llewelyn but traverse left along a trod, hold your height and arrive at Yr Elen.. then of out to the end...

The only big choices are how to start, returning to bwlch coch and what to do between Tryfan and Pen Yr Ole Wen.

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Morning chaps put your info and the book on the map yest looks like a good day out. theres One or grey areas that I was after confirming . The walk up from nant peris to sumit in the book it says take the path until0you cross a fb then leave path and head cross country striaght to sumit , is this right or best to follow papath to top and nip back for sumit ? . And secondly the descent off tryfan , looking at going down west gully as never been down it always come down south ridge after a climb or scramble, ian do you mean west gully is 20 yards past summit then drop down it to steps ? I take it you then make a line to the road then ogwen hd and striaght up path on peny ol wen ?

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Originally Posted by old un

Morning chaps put your info and the book on the map yest looks like a good day out. theres One or grey areas that I was after confirming . The walk up from nant peris to sumit in the book it says take the path until0you cross a fb then leave path and head cross country striaght to sumit , is this right or best to follow papath to top and nip back for sumit ?

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Main path to the little footbridge then there's a trod that takes you all the way to the top, trending diagonally up and across the hillside, up the scree for the last bit.

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And secondly the descent off tryfan , looking at going down west gully as never been down it always come down south ridge after a climb or scramble, ian do you mean west gully is 20 yards past summit then drop down it to steps ? I take it you then make a line to the road then ogwen hd and striaght up path on peny ol wen ?

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Go north off the summit blocks then immediately drop left into the gully which is full of big boulders.

Then a steep path with some long sections of stone steps takes you down the hillside, either carry on down to the road and along that to Idwal Cottage, or cut across directly to the Idwal path... I take a line underneath Bochlwyd Buttress around the 400m contour level, its a bit boggy in places but nothing too bad.

Thanks very much for that elliptic exactly what I was after :-). Out of intrest, were camping at tryfan site and
when we hit last sumit was going to back track to ogwen head and back along rd is there any paths or trods to drop us down peny ol wen and on the east side of lyn ogwen to cut the rd usage down ?

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Originally Posted by old un

Thanks very much for that elliptic exactly what I was after :-). Out of intrest, were camping at tryfan site and
when we hit last sumit was going to back track to ogwen head and back along rd is there any paths or trods to drop us down peny ol wen and on the east side of lyn ogwen to cut the rd usage down ?

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yeah as el says, from the footbridge there is an obvious path to the summit.. its confused by the footpath marked on the map which isn't there.. that carries on up the valley floor then climbs up towards the bwlch after elidir..but in reality there is nothing on the ground so totally ignore that..

Tryfan: Its obvious.. descend some slabs N, obvious bwlch, then down a steep scree and rock filled gully.. at the base you'll find a long section of rocky steps in the grass.. this path runs steeply down to boggy ground and head along this to hit the river shortly before the A5..

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Originally Posted by old un

Thanks very much for that elliptic exactly what I was after :-). Out of intrest, were camping at tryfan site and
when we hit last sumit was going to back track to ogwen head and back along rd is there any paths or trods to drop us down peny ol wen and on the east side of lyn ogwen to cut the rd usage down ?

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There's a path round the back of Llyn Ogwen but I'd drop off sooner into Cwm Llugwy or Cwm Lloer... assuming you're on the Uchaf site you can get back pretty much directly either way.

Yeah drop direct of Craig llugwy SH 678 632.. or further along into Cwm lloer.. the earlier descent is OK but there can be a few access issues but I've used it.. if you get into cwm lloer you hit the east ridge of PYOW path and follow that down.. descend from roughly SH 670 630 for that one..

There's a good path down the east ridge of PYOW, it has one easy scrambling section.. the dogs do it.. otherwise fine..

Thanks ian and thanks elliptic you've very helpfull , I'll put that on the map when I get in . Get todays work out the way and over we come and have bash :-)

Hey old un, how did you get on?

It will be apparent that we didn't meet. We missed out Crib Goch because of the wind, made good time to Ogwen, and then fell asleep for an hour and a half by the llyn whilst we were waiting for our support to arrive! We got moving again at 4pm, and were on Foel Fras at 9pm. Lovely day!

hi joester weldone on your round a great acheivment in them conditions mate, ours didnt go so well my mate had kittens on crib goch in the wind and looking after him i missed the drop off and we had to traverse round to get back round valley to nant and we lost alot of time. got to tryfan and the sun and wind had took their toll and we didnt take torches and reckoned we may have to back track in dark so called it a day and i took my mate the scenic route over glyders and enjoyed the afternoon then on tryfan met some mates climbing east side and came down with them. had a cracking day out and learnt a lot on route for a return bout. thought i may have said hi to you on elider fawr we was coming out of the shelter as you three were going in but wasnt sure and was hard to talk with wind up there. dont know wether the wind or the heat was the hardest toll but veiws amazing and we enjoyed a grand day in the hills , what more could we want :thumbup:

Put it down as a 'recce' then? - But still an awesome day to be in the mountains, as you say.

We were on the top of Elidir Fawr at about 9:30am, and we had it to ourselves having moved past several groups on the way up.
I think the wind was at its strongest up there, it was not a place to linger.

A report of our day is here:
http://www.walkingforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=19635.0

I did the 3000s at the weekend, running South to North starting on Crib Goch. Superb day out in perfect conditions! I have put up lots of photos here: http://runningontrail.blogspot.co.uk...-15-peaks.html