1.2km zip wire fleetwith pike

I was interested enough to watch on iplayer after reading this thread. The things that really struck me, already familiar with the zipwire debate (I'm an anti as it happens) and the tragic bereavement of Weir's partner and kids, were firstly the appalling aggressive and bullying behaviour he exhibited with the FOTL people (and how much nastier would it have turned without the camera there?) and secondly the utter folly and arrogance of building the VF without planning permission. Both were, in different ways, examples of severely antisocial and unacceptable behaviour and demonstrated a lack of respect verging on contempt for other people in general. Being "larger than life", "plain speaking" etc is just no excuse for treating other people in that manner. Tellingly it then transpired that the calumny he was accusing the FOTL of spreading turned out to be verbatim from his own documents - hilarious. Whatever your feelings on the man and the ultimate fate of the VF ad the wire surely nobody can defend his deliberate "sod the lot of you" breech of the planning laws in an area of outstanding natural beauty. A sorry tale indeed

P

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Originally Posted by nikalas

I'm a bit disappointed that none of the worshippers at the shrine of Bradbury have come on to honourably defend their heroine.... now Ellie Harrison, she can do no wrong :wink:

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I'm struggling to remain silent against all the Bradbury haters:thunbdown:, although have to say that Ellie Harrison is pretty damn hot:thumbup:

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Originally Posted by nikalas

I'm a bit disappointed that none of the worshippers at the shrine of Bradbury have come on to honourably defend their heroine.... now Ellie Harrison, she can do no wrong :wink:

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Now you are talking nikalas. I even sat through the World Sheepdog Championships on TV because Ellie was presenting it. Pity that her co presenter was that tosser Guy Martin but you cant have everything

I've just watched this and I was reminded of John Shuttleworth while they were interviewing those Pensioners by Derwentwater

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Originally Posted by IanDarkpeak

I've not seen the programme yet, I'll try and watch it tomorrow but was there a plan to:

a) Get the people to the top of the Pike?
b) Get the zip wire trollies to the top of the pike?

I've worked on zips before and the only way to actually make money is to keep a high usage rate up

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Originally Posted by paulo

I was interested enough to watch on iplayer after reading this thread. The things that really struck me, already familiar with the zipwire debate (I'm an anti as it happens) and the tragic bereavement of Weir's partner and kids, were firstly the appalling aggressive and bullying behaviour he exhibited with the FOTL people (and how much nastier would it have turned without the camera there?) and secondly the utter folly and arrogance of building the VF without planning permission. Both were, in different ways, examples of severely antisocial and unacceptable behaviour and demonstrated a lack of respect verging on contempt for other people in general. Being "larger than life", "plain speaking" etc is just no excuse for treating other people in that manner. Tellingly it then transpired that the calumny he was accusing the FOTL of spreading turned out to be verbatim from his own documents - hilarious. Whatever your feelings on the man and the ultimate fate of the VF ad the wire surely nobody can defend his deliberate "sod the lot of you" breech of the planning laws in an area of outstanding natural beauty. A sorry tale indeed

P

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ok I've just watched it, Paulo- spot on, I always thought he was an arrogant self publicist and this really showed him and his mother in law up. They had the opportunity to have a peaceful diplomatic word with FOTL instead they just shouted at them, so much for the peace ful lake district. I'll leave my thoughts on the way he flew the helicopter out of this thread.

No mention of the final planning permission being changed and calling it the Zip Weir?

So to my earlier comments a) and b)

Had he got permission for the VF or the cave walk i could have lived with it, my original concern was for the number of extra people going up the path and who would pay for the upkeep or worse if they were to be driven up.

Again I'd be interested in how they planned to get the large number of Heavy Zip trollies back up the hill. You couldn't walk up the hill with them? They would need to be either driven up again very noisy or winched up which meant he would need to make a ski lift style cable way??

He certainly was a Marmite character, I personally struggled with his show boating. Fine when dragging the sheep off the crag, it was only him, but placing an extended ladder on top of a scaffolding tower and getting two of your employees foot it for you while you prize out half tonne lumps of slate was going too far.

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Originally Posted by Askern

He certainly was a Marmite character, I personally struggled with his show boating. Fine when dragging the sheep off the crag, it was only him, but placing an extended ladder on top of a scaffolding tower and getting two of your employees foot it for you while you prize out half tonne lumps of slate was going too far.

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i watched it the other night and wondered whether any of the local H&S brigade were watching.

Another thing, wasn't he the bloke who described the 2008 OMM as coming close to turning the Lakes into a morgue?

I'm not local but I was cringing.

Paulo and IanDarkPeak pretty much summed it up for me also. I think the VF could of been acceptable as it was a fixed route, therefore limited damage to the flora etc. I'd even, eventually come down as a 'worried' yes for the zip-wire. But the guy (who I have to say I never met...although I possibly did when buying my dads headstone!!!) didn't come across at all well on the film, and after the 2008 OMM and his comments, I wasn't a fan. Also, while I'm here, I tend to think orange for the sign frontage is a little bit off up there!!.....And I'm a bit off JB too, I'm a confirmed Dr Alice Roberts afficinado now! Surely she can do no wrong!! :)

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Originally Posted by that_fjell_guy

Paulo and IanDarkPeak pretty much summed it up for me also. I think the VF could of been acceptable as it was a fixed route, therefore limited damage to the flora etc. I'd even, eventually come down as a 'worried' yes for the zip-wire. But the guy (who I have to say I never met...although I possibly did when buying my dads headstone!!!) didn't come across at all well on the film, and after the 2008 OMM and his comments, I wasn't a fan. Also, while I'm here, I tend to think orange for the sign frontage is a little bit off up there!!.....And I'm a bit off JB too, I'm a confirmed Dr Alice Roberts afficinado now! Surely she can do no wrong!! :)

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Ahhhhhh Dr Alice...............

I thought he came across as a proper character, ambitious and risky way of life who seemingly cared quite a bit for all those who worked for him. Quite a predictable PC like response from many on here.

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Originally Posted by IanDarkpeak

Had he got permission for the VF or the cave walk i could have lived with it, my original concern was for the number of extra people going up the path and who would pay for the upkeep or worse if they were to be driven up.

Again I'd be interested in how they planned to get the large number of Heavy Zip trollies back up the hill. You couldn't walk up the hill with them? They would need to be either driven up again very noisy or winched up which meant he would need to make a ski lift style cable way??

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Get your facts right, they were never talking zip trollies (whatever they are), just climbing harnesses, a couple of slings, crabs and a some rollers. Anyone doing the zip would have to go up the via ferrata. No one was going to be bused up to the top.

As for Alice Roberts, Jesus she makes me want to puke!

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Originally Posted by Dynamo Dan

Ahhhhhh Dr Alice...............

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I hear you there Dynamo Man, she's mighty fine in all ways:), oh yeh.

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Originally Posted by RhosgadMath

I thought he came across as a proper character, ambitious and risky way of life who seemingly cared quite a bit for all those who worked for him. Quite a predictable PC like response from many on here.

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Equally predictable "he was a proper character" response! He obviously had some admirable qualities in his passion and drive for his goals, but all that OMM stuff painted him as an ignorant scare-monger in my eyes, massively exaggerating the the issue simply to paint himself as some kind of knight in shining armour who stepped in to the save the day. His stupid, aggressive behaviour in the film speaks for itself.

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Originally Posted by No map, no compass

Get your facts right, they were never talking zip trollies (whatever they are), just climbing harnesses, a couple of slings, crabs and a some rollers. Anyone doing the zip would have to go up the via ferrata. No one was going to be bused up to the top.

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never said they were going to be bused to the top only IF they were, I didn't know, still don't(given the VF was put in place with out permission)??


I spoke to some one who runs Zipps all over the country, It's his living and he has to meet H&S regulations etc

Given the length and speed of the the Honister you could not use a standard pulley, a minimum would be the Tandom Speed for cables up to 12mm. I don't know what diameter they were planning to use but for a commercial operation doing regular zips you would need some thing much more substantial, the company I have done work with imports theres from America.

The double trolley pulley would/Should be the one to use, again I don't know but the people in the know I have spoke to have said it should be similar to this one which I tried to go on earlier this year but it was booked up for the day, I believe Alan Lucker as been on it, it was on his blog.....

Now this is a Zip wire....( with relevant double trolley)

It doesn't matter really as it's not going to happen
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaMD-cjsCp8

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Originally Posted by Dynamo Dan

Ahhhhhh Dr Alice...............

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Impeccable taste

The problem with TV programmes like this is that the producers often feel that they have to introduce a story line along with tricks like "false jeopardy" to keep the viewers' interest. Essentially you only get to see the side of someone that the producers wish to portray so as to tell "the story". This programme didn't seem too bad - though there is no way of telling what the actual characters are/were like unless you have personal knowledge of the individuals involved, at which point you have your own bias anyway.

Mark Weir did come across as very "driven" and the FOTL as somewhat naive and idealistic which I have to admit does reinforce my personal views about both parties. Natural England were also portrayed as being somewhat myopic in their view of the damage to the areas surrounding the VF. Slightly more worryingly the LDSPB (or at least the planning officers) were cast as intent on promoting the "Disneyification" of the Lake District, or as it was described: "Making it the adventure capital of the UK".

I've no doubt that Mark Weir reinvigorated the Honister mine and made it a success but making the zipwire application sound as if the business depended on it being passed didn't seem to ring true, it may not expand to the same extent but it doesn't mean automatic failure. Of course if the mine now closes, the blame can be laid at the door of the LDSPB for refusing the application. I realise that tourism is the basis of the economy in the Lakes but it shouldn't mean that it should get its way all the time.

I get the feeling (not from the programme) that this application was being supported by those who didn't necessarily like Mr Weir as they had similar plans for "adventure tourism" but didn't want to be the first to poke their heads above the parapet.

Finally, the BBC seem to have a thing about Honister Mines - they went their for a lump of slate for James May's man-lab programme and they often film there.

I thought the programme was very good. Seeing Mark Weir and his son half way through was very sad. I hope no one has lost their job as a result of his death and the failure of the application.

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Originally Posted by Hank

all that OMM stuff painted him as an ignorant scare-monger in my eyes, massively exaggerating the the issue simply to paint himself as some kind of knight in shining armour who stepped in to the save the day.

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Ignorant, not at all
(the rest - yes)

His mountains into a morgue comment was followed with:
It just goes to show that what we need is a mountain survival training centre

To be based......
well, where do you think ? And run by whom, do you think ?

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Originally Posted by andy k

Ignorant, not at all
(the rest - yes)

His mountains into a morgue comment was followed with:
It just goes to show that what we need is a mountain survival training centre

To be based......
well, where do you think ? And run by whom, do you think ?

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We don't need a "mountain survival training centre". Certainly not needed by those OMM competitors if their 100% survival rate in that event is anything to go by. So I think I'll stick with ignorant, cheers.

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Originally Posted by Bob

The problem with TV programmes like this is that the producers often feel that they have to introduce a story line along with tricks like "false jeopardy" to keep the viewers' interest. Essentially you only get to see the side of someone that the producers wish to portray so as to tell "the story".

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The primary focus of a TV producer is to produce "good television" aka lots of viewers/media coverage etc.

Words like truth, objectivity, balance,... don't get onto the agenda.

The other great advantage they have is that they know how it ends and so can edit the material to suit their chosen agenda.

In other words: it's just showbusiness. Nothing more.

Or do people really take Julia Bradbury seriously?

Hank
my point was that he said what he said purely to promote his own money making idea for a such a centre
he jumped on the availability of the media to get some publicity
he wasn't being ignorant he was playing the media game - make it sound like a crisis so you can get some coverage.
devious might be the word.

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Originally Posted by andy k

Hank
my point was that he said what he said purely to promote his own money making idea for a such a centre
he jumped on the availability of the media to get some publicity
he wasn't being ignorant he was playing the media game - make it sound like a crisis so you can get some coverage.
devious might be the word.

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Ok, I can go with devious!

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Originally Posted by IanDarkpeak

never said they were going to be bused to the top only IF they were, I didn't know, still don't(given the VF was put in place with out permission)??


I spoke to some one who runs Zipps all over the country, It's his living and he has to meet H&S regulations etc

Given the length and speed of the the Honister you could not use a standard pulley, a minimum would be the Tandom Speed for cables up to 12mm. I don't know what diameter they were planning to use but for a commercial operation doing regular zips you would need some thing much more substantial, the company I have done work with imports theres from America.

The double trolley pulley would/Should be the one to use, again I don't know but the people in the know I have spoke to have said it should be similar to this one which I tried to go on earlier this year but it was booked up for the day, I believe Alan Lucker as been on it, it was on his blog.....

Now this is a Zip wire....( with relevant double trolley)

It doesn't matter really as it's not going to happen

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I suspect that you are technically correct, but I can assure you that Honister were going for something much less heavy duty. Whether that would be safe I couldn't say. Personally you would never get me on the thing! Looking at the video, I suspect that the Honister zip would have had a much greater drop, so presumably would have been much faster. Scary!

LAKE DISTRICT ZIP WIRE BID REJECTED
By Kim Pilling, Press Association
A renewed planning application to build a zip wire measuring more than 3,280ft (1,000m) across the fells of the Lake District has been rejected.
Mountaineer Sir Chris Bonington was among supporters of the proposals for Honister Slate Mine who tried today to persuade committee members to approve the project.
Planning officers also recommended its approval subject to a number of conditions but the Lake District National Park Authority's development control committee voted 7-4 against on the grounds of the impact on the landscape.
Last weekend Sir Chris tweeted his support for the plans at Honister Pass in Borrowdale, Cumbria, as he wrote: "Support Honister zip wire application - Minimal environmental or visual impact, lots of fun, opposed by some."
It was a stance opposed by the Friends of the Lake District, of which he is vice president.
The registered charity campaigns for the protection of the local landscape and stated it did not believe the zip wire was "right for the Lake District" with the unspoilt fells crucial to Cumbria's tourism brand.
The Campaign to Protect Rural England also objected to the application as it considered it "an inappropriate development in one of the nation's most treasured landscapes".
A similar planning bid for a mile-long zip wire at Honister Pass was turned down in September 2011.
The latest revised proposal from the slate mine was for a zip wire measuring 3,395ft (1,035m) to operate for 18 months on a temporary basis. A review on whether a permanent installation was required would then follow from the applicants.
Mine bosses argued the plan at the site of the existing tourist attraction was vital to secure much-needed extra income for England's only working slate mine.
In a statement, Friends of the Lake District said: "We are pleased that the Lake District National Park Authority members agreed that the scale of this proposal in this location was inappropriate and the open fell should remain free from man-made developments, protected for everyone's benefit. This is the best decision for the Lake District's wider tourism economy now and in the longer term.
"The decision reaffirms the previous refusal (September 2011), recognising that recreational activities reliant on man-made infrastructure and harmful to the landscape should not be allowed in sensitive locations.
"We support many forms of adventurous outdoor pursuits in the Lake District, for example, rock climbing, mountain biking, canoeing, swimming and fell running, that are enjoyed by large numbers of young and not so young people. Zip wires and GoApe tree assault courses are best located in forest settings as they are in other parts of the UK."
A 2,165ft (660m) zip wire was opened at Cornwall's Eden Project last summer.

"The primary focus of a TV producer is to produce "good television" aka lots of viewers/media coverage etc.

Words like truth, objectivity, balance,... don't get onto the agenda."

The first part of that is true....the second statement is some way wide of the mark.

But..

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Originally Posted by Graham Breeze

it's just showbusiness. Nothing more.

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..is pretty accurate, wouldn't you say?

Not always. Often the intention is to deliver something useful.

This video on BBC Wales
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-21889684

Northern Hemisphere's longest zip-line.

Interesting, no speed control parachutes. different weighted people go down these at different speed. so you add a small parachute to add drag...

Check the fantasticable at about 30 seconds.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmUNb21HbuE