I've got a load of mates from Mary Port (don't ask me why) and they don't speak very highly of the place at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by LissaJous
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I've got a load of mates from Mary Port (don't ask me why) and they don't speak very highly of the place at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by LissaJous
I've got a load of mates from Mary Port (don't ask me why) and they don't speak very highly of the place at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by LissaJous
Is it the Northampton mountaineering club hut or something at the top of Deiniolen, that's were we stayed, and I thought the pubs were on the same of the road. I also remember going in one of the pubs, can't remember which one, although I do remember that the pub we didn't go in had the Welsh flag draped over the pub sign outside. It's a while back now (well over ten years ago). The whole place seemed a bit run down really.Quote:
Originally Posted by wheezing donkey
I also remember when my mate was getting threatened quite heavily that was in the Heights in Llanberis, which we used to frequent quite a lot when we were in Snowdonia, it seemed to get worse for the next few years and we stopped going.
Although I'm struggling to see how this thread became a Welsh bashathon (IanR started it by mentioning that fell running wasn't thriving in Wales right?), I think that the problem with Snowdonia, as far as I'm concerned, is that its just too far away for me to be bothered to attend fell races. And thats it really. Full stop. I do travel about a bit but with the Dales outside my backdoor, the Lakes an hour's drive west, the Peak District 90 minutes or so south and the North York Moors 90 minutes to the north east, the thought of spending 3.5 hours driving to Snowdonia just for a race is barmy.
Every now and then I have to see a work client in Llandudno and, afterwards I've hacked up the Watkin Path to the top of Snowdon and returned by the ridge to the west (Clogwyn somethingorother) and I just love everything about that route. I do hate the concept of a railway up Snowdon though and dislike meeting people in suits and ties and mackintoshes at the summit. Equally when I ran the three national peaks I felt like I was on a tourist conveyor belt trotting up the Pig Track.
I've had a few camping holidays, usually based in Beddgelert, with my two kids, and as a place Snowdonia is hard to beat with its fantastic hills but close proximity to the sea, especially the completely brilliant Llyn Peninsula. I have never witnessed any trouble with any north waleseners but, there again, I've never been to any of the dodgy areas. I'm surprised though that IanR is talking about post event (are we actually talking fell races here?) pub fights.
Deiniolen,thats were i`m from i`ve have to agree that the place is a bit run down but the people there a very genuine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Graeme78
Which is why I was trying to add a bit of balance. However, in 2010 I did think Llanberis after Snowdon was appalling. A week later I was at an 'International' race in Austria where it was possible to have a very enjoyable and civilized evening out in the bars/restaurants. If you were looking to travel far for a race then it would be an easy decision.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stolly
But to come bizarrely almost back to topic, if you did combine Cleator Moor with an 'International' event and a film crew from Cumbria TV, you might get similar scenes. So let's blame S4C if anyone! :p
Some of the stories trotted out here must have made you raise your eyebrows a bit. I only went to Deiniolen once, and that was for lunch with work colleagues at the Bull....I think that was the name of the main pub. But this was back in '77 when I worked as a cleaner for the Dinorwig power scheme. Our Bangor accents immediately identified us as outsiders and we were subject to some worrying glares. It was a wild west town then and still seems to be so today! Have'nt been back there since. Would love to see what Machlyn Mawr looks like now. It was a hell of a mess back then!Quote:
Originally Posted by rocksteady
I can cope with the fighting, and I did indeed spend time in Bosnia in the 90's, but the thought of Italians doing karaoke frankly terrifies me and I may not set foot in Wales again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Malky
(Ah - checked the diary - back in Capel in July....)
I thought it was nice there. The lady at the campsite did look at me askance when I asked if the eggs she was selling were free-range, but other than that, no trouble.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZootHornRollo
The Bowland FR member who organised the hut, studied at Herriott Watt University, did so through his Edinburgh contacts. I think that it might actually belong to a private individual who is a member of an Edinburgh based club .... just what I picked up from conversations .... seemingly when he was re-building the derelict cottage, he was approached by a posse of locals who asked him what his intentions were. When it became clear that it was intended to be a 'club asset' as opposed to a private, up-market holiday pad ( with a hefty rental tag ), they were happy enough and unanimously gave him the "thumbs up".Quote:
Originally Posted by Graeme78
I think that we have used the Northampton hut, back in 2007. It is more over towards Bethesda, IIRC.
PS. I would state that I am NOT in any way anti-Welsh, I love the place; it is my roots, going back 3 or 4 generations ( Corris & Llanymawddy ). And as stated previously, I rate Croesor and Llanfachreth as my two all time favourite villages.
its not post events, just post wyddfa.. the problem is wyddfa showcases north wales, great race, great organisation, friendly, great local community buy in, involvement as runners, support etc.. but then the visitors also see the fighting.. 4 of the last 5 years have involved a fair degree of fighting on the streets at some point..Quote:
Originally Posted by Stolly
So people leave having their view of North Wales tainted, but that's basically the only time you see trouble in llanberis, but that's when the runners visit. We've spoken to pubs about putting on an event afterwards, the heights is now great btw, but basically why would they take the risk..
It's about demographics really. The old towns in Snowdonia where there might be some trouble at times is probably as they have experienced a decline - where they slate mining of something?
Cleator Moor is similar.
You can go to South Wales and you have the Rhondda.
But who picks to stay in these areas?
If I was going to the lakes and needed to stay over I think Cleator Moor would be at the bottom of my places to stay as would the Rhondda if I was in the South Wales mountains.
Dolgellau's great. They ought to know about free range eggs just down the road from CAT.. But if you prefer to stay in a campsite the other side of Cader at the bottom of the Minffordd path, there's one with it's very own free range eggs!Quote:
Originally Posted by L.F.F.
I camped there only the other day! Good eh?Quote:
Originally Posted by LissaJous
I nearly rented the attached cottage but work (55 mins drive to Aber) might have suffered somewhat.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZootHornRollo
Never had any trouble in Llanberis been going there for over 30 years!
People should be careful not to jump to conclusions of anti English behaviour on a typical UK weekend just because the people involved aren't English.
I've felt much more intimidated in an English city centre on a Saturday night than anywhere in Wales.
Very funny "you've heard" :rolleyes: Nothing wrong with people from Cleator Moor, friendly down to earth people, some of them even support runners they've never even met in the middle of the night on some fell running challenge :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by LissaJous
You lost your argument at Maryport! I bet they were keen to put Cleator Moor down :D (this is a west cumbrian thing)Quote:
I've got a load of mates from Mary Port (don't ask me why) and they don't speak very highly of the place at all.
Cleator Moor born and bred
Funnily enough they've never mentioned Cleaton Moor it's usually the charms of Cockermouth (or Cock-in-mouth as they call it) they go on about. I meant West Cumbia in general in my original post by the way not just Cleaton Moor.Quote:
Originally Posted by Baggins
Agreed!Quote:
Originally Posted by Baggins
:thumbup: I'm sure there's the occasional exception to the rule :wink: A friend of mine did a teacher training placement there (or lived there while she did)! She didn't enjoy it much.Quote:
Very funny "you've heard" :rolleyes: Nothing wrong with people from Cleator Moor, friendly down to earth people, some of them even support runners they've never even met in the middle of the night on some fell running challenge :wink:
Cleator Moor born and bred
Let's start on the nuclear industry next, that'll liven the debate up....
I don't think its that.. last year the locals in llanberis were more annoyed than I was and weren't far off heading out to sort out the trouble causers themselves..Quote:
Originally Posted by Witton Park
Llanberis had the slate quarrying a good 50 years ago, think the last ones finished late 60's/early 70's.
And its not welsh bashing, as I state I love it here, its probably the friendliest place I've lived. Its very insular though, but so are most rural places anywhere in the UK, so maybe some wrath can get directed at the english but that's because they are outsiders and south waleans can get similar grief, so can guys from llanberis in Llanrug 2 miles away... when the house burnings were going on that was any second home owners, english or welsh..
I just think it needs a high level answer from the council or police to clean up that one night for a good 3-5 years on the trot... change the perception. Each person staying will be worth a good £60-£100 to the economy, after accomodation, food and beers over that weekend, plus encouraging more to come again. Would you come to llanberis for the snowdon race weekend and bring your kids out to the village, stay for the evening, take the family out for a meal? Many wouldn't, so its lost revenue.. Go to a European race and you'll have the post race party atmosphere with child-safe/suitable atmosphere..
Anyway this came up because someone (GB I think) said there was no need to promote fell running, and I think there is in Wales. I've sat in the meetings where they've discussed the lack of feasibility of some races, not enough runners. The Peris, £5 a runner, say 60 runners, £300.. by the time you've bought prizes, cups, coasters, paid the radio guys (if they still use them), its not a great money raiser.. And I think the perception of trouble for visitors doesn't help. Look at this thread, there's a fair few talking about feeling or being threatened.. its only a few people, probably not even anti-english, but it stays with people and doesn't attract them back as much.
And its affected the race, some piss head running out in a mankini the other year.. etc. there's been talk of changing the start time so the pubs are open for less time, so the race knows its an issue. But TBH I think it has to come from higher up, the council or police, to be out in numbers, high profile presence, forget ticketing cars.. and prosecute anyone causing trouble. Zero tolerance to any anti social behaviour, and do that year on year for a few years and the idiots will avoid the race day..
Are you in the mood for winning on saturday? Where's Emma C these days?Quote:
Originally Posted by LissaJous
There are toss pots everywhere, I live in Oldham and I can tell you now I'd much rather have a night out in Llanberis than oldham! I love snowdonia nearly as much as my precious chew valley.
Nights out in Oldham are top, they always end hammered, eating kebabs and getting given it balls deep by some sweetheart from HoltsQuote:
Originally Posted by Fleeter
poor old cleator moor:thunbdown:
most handy for ennerdale though
Now I am from Paisley- and anyone can feel free to give Paisley a bashing with my blessing:D
That's the thing it is a total one off.. literally the only night you are likely to see trouble.. but its year on year and certainly impacts on the area, peoples views and the success of races..Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleeter
There's generally no anti-english though.. and I don't know how that gets to become such a truth, you do get the odd person but such a minority its not worth bothering about.. there was a great night in the pub a few months ago with a southerner, a right muppet, telling everyone to stop speaking Welsh.. that Snowdonia was just the southerners play ground.. I think that was his exact term.. it was brilliant, he was a sort of cross between Dom Jolly and AliG.. just trying to be as controversial as possible.. and people just took the piss... but he was serious.. but when you hear views like his you can understand a tad anti-englishness.. The stuff he was coming out with was priceless, he really thought about it, he must have ticked every box of being the stereotypical narrow minded english guy.. superb.. sadly he was serious though, but was a proper comedy sketch...
But the fighting.. a) you can't ignore and b) it shouldn't be ignored as its negatively impacting on the race. I think its definitely a factor in the lack of top class internationals who do the race now.. that and the dolomites being the same time..
But there are also races in the Lakes that struggle to get a ‘decent’ field. Eg the Dungeon Ghyll a couple of weeks ago with only 37 starters this year and 40 (a record!) in 2011.Quote:
Originally Posted by IainR
In fact, most short steep races are under-populated because people often have a mentality that equates distance with kudos and they don’t readily grasp the challenge of these races.
Obviously, some races need promoting and some don’t. People tend to go for the big, famous events so things like the Three Peaks obviously don’t need any promotion but there are probably some that do. GB is absolutely right to be cautious about this though, because most fell races couldn’t cope with a big influx of new runners and a small field is often an essential part of their atmosphere.
From what I've heard about Carneddau it's a fantastic route, which rivals the likes of Buttermere Sailbeck. It's a real shame it doesn't attract a decent sized field, but how would you promote it? You could put an article in The Fellrunner, but it's a Welsh race and in reality the responsibility for poor race fields in Wales lies with the WFRA.
i'm not sure about that... the FRA aren't just England.. the WFRA are sort of independant from UKA but yet affiliated to the FRA.. but the FRA is specifically to promote fell running in the UK..Quote:
Originally Posted by Dynamo Dan
google 'FRA'.. first line..
So I don't understand this view that its just England.. I've had that before off Graham. If it is so change the website, change its promotion material..
"Fell Runners Association
www.fellrunner.org.uk/
Organisation co-ordinating and promoting fell (i.e. hill/mountain) running in the UK."
Thats complete bollocks! Neither the FRA nor WFRA, SHRA or IMRA are responsible for 'promoting' races! The numbers game is entirely down to population size within a one-two hour drive time of the event...where 90% of competitors will come from.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dynamo Dan
Fell races don't need promotion...indeed that's a dangerous route to go down. A well organised race with a reputation will always attract runners. What do you call a 'decent sized field'? Every time I have done Carneddau, the field has seemed perfectly matched for facilities/route etc.
But of course, North Wales is in complete societal meltdown according to the Oracle. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...entre-9pm.html
Tremble in fear all you lily livered Saesnegs!:wink:
Erm.. I disagree.. they promote fell running.. calendars etc. Also race numbers.. 30 odd in some races? Come on that's awful, we can easily take 100/race, strangely the more traily races or shorter races are more popular. Tuesday evening races often get 100+..Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheeze
1-2 hr drive from North Wales is literally millions..
What's that about.. North korean kids banned from Bangor?
Yes, I agree! An unusually intemperate outburst on my behalf should be taken in context of Object 2 of the FRA Constitution "to encourage and promote fell running and allied mountain races having due regard to the environmental and other impacts of the sport;"
So why the outburst?. I'm obviously wrong and yet I feel very strongly about the topic of 'promotion' of races. And I don't think I am alone. If you re-read Grahams piece (that started all this off) I think reasonable to assume that the thrust of the article is against 'promotion'...Opening sentence reads "The Fell Runners Association Committee has long held the view that people who really wish to spend time on the fells will find their way to them naturally and they will not need full colour articles in glossy, lifestyle magazines to alert them to the glories of the great outdoors. And those that do will probably need a 4x4 SUV to get there."
At which point, perhaps I should step aside for other comments. Graham, am I wrong to read an anti-promotion tint to your piece?
BTW, IainR, whats so awful about a field of 30 odd? A lot of us race to get away from the crowds in a spirit of friendly competition with like minded individuals in the great outdoors. If you want big fields, stick to road running!
The FRA was set up to promote fell running in the UK.. Grahams article about the FRA is grahams view.. Graham uses the term 'my sport'... says it all..
30 runners? I'd just go fro a run on my own.. as I do most nights.. I race to race.. also, as I said before, some races are barely sustainable, look at the ones we've lost in Wales, and I've sat through mind numbingly slit your wrist boring committee meetings discussing race entry fees, club incomes, sustainability of such and such a race.. so yes it is a factor.
So yes I'd rather run with good runners than be 1/2 k behind 3rd, 1.4k ahead of 5th.. that's not a race.
Ohh a bit of a jab, stick to road running.. as you know I do both.. because with the road you get a quality work out.. most runners do..
The Peris entries used to barely cover radio fees, never mind the other fees involved..
I think we need to promote running in North Wales, which is what the Tuesday evening series do, they provide a route into fell running for the people too cautious to make the step to weekend races by doing short well marked courses.. well apart from the orme..
Jura does bloody well thenQuote:
Originally Posted by Wheeze
Some races have become "must dos" Jura being one because of the "craic". The likes of the Edale Skyline being another but for no obvious reason. I have done the Skyline twice and loved it and I will do it again, but is it 5 times better than a great route in Snowdonia that gets 1/5 of the field, I think not. Many Lakeland races are considered "must dos" for good reason.Quote:
Originally Posted by Witton Park
It becomes a bit of a self fulfilling prophecy that more people doing a race talk it up leading to more people wanting to do it. Ending up in the number of people wanting to do a race is more to do with the hype than the race itself.
Is it a case of many Welsh races are not getting this inital critical mass of entrants in the first place.
I think Wales, and Ireland and Scotland have got it right, and England has lost its way - a victim of its own popularity, or media hype, which is what we are discssing, no?
Races with much smaller fields provide the essence of great fell running, where all the skills are needed. If you can do one, just enjoy it - you'll learn stuff without even realising it.
On the other hand, big processionals, like Borrowdale and Langdale, tend to deskill runners - although they can surprise us when the mist is down!!
Ha! I had Jura in my mind as typed that and nearly qualified my statement...but then I realised that would be stating the obvious...that some races in the middle of nowhere are must do's because of the difficulty...in getting there and participating.Quote:
Originally Posted by Witton Park
I stand by my 1-2 hour drive time. And as someone somewhere else said (Stolly?) if it's a toss up between 1 hour to a peaks/pennines race or 2-3 hours to Snowdonia for someone in the midlands/Manc conurbation, the former will always win out.
Iain, I wasn't jabbing you, merely pointing out that if you want close racing with hundreds of others, road racing will give that to you. If you want to test yourself against mountain conditions along with others who are seeking the same, then you need a fell race. For all but the top 5 in a race/category, its more about taking on the terrain rather than your fellow racer.......although that is still important which is why any fell race is NOT training!
Sounds like you should be orienteeringQuote:
Originally Posted by Rudolph Hooker
I think running in Yorkshire and the Lakes is superb. Grasmere? Y3P's? Great Lakes?.. superb races..Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudolph Hooker
But f I want the great essence of fell running I run on the fells, just me and the dog.. no race, no marshalls.. if I want to race I like people to race..
Good news, the boarded up pub in Deiniolen - The Wellington is re-opening this week! Let the good times roll!Quote:
Originally Posted by wheezing donkey
Seriously though, the village might have it's problems but the majority of people who live there are the most warm hearted people you'd wish to meet.
Bloody brilliant news, happy with that, aye deffo agree with you Llechan, it's the locals as well as the fell running 'immigrants' who move into the the Gwynedd area that make it such a friendly area. There was a post on this weird thread ages back by some dude who stated something about the friendliness of the 'climbers' who visit / move into the area, I'd totally disagree - in fact their some of the weirdest, most complex and most unpredictable of the immigrants / locals of Gwynedd.....Llanberis is full of them, a big "hello" one day, not a peep the next - they want to leave the community spirit of Peckham down there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Llechan Wlyb
Regards the Wellington re-opening, that's great, also apparently the legend Fricsan is rumored to be re-opening, heavy techno to begin with, no closing times:
http://www.thesnowdoninn.co.uk/
And other North Walian news is that the superb Plas Hall in Dolwyddelan is also planning to re begin it's heavy techno nights, everyone welcome:
http://www.plashall.co.uk/
yes i`ve heard the news ,just in time for the annual village carnival.i hope Kieth and Menna make a sucess of it.how about organising a new race say the Elidir Horseshoe?and hold the post race bash at the Welly?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Llechan Wlyb