Interesting

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Originally Posted by Mossdog

No 'picnics' but protest marches (again) are all OK at the height of a pandemic.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-55631618

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Anything is OK if it includes a bit of ethnicity.

Boris fancies a ride and bit of fresh air, security detail tell him that cycling through the centre of london with all the traffic and plenty of loonies who would be happy to take a swipe at him with their car (he is kind of recognizable) is a bad idea, verboten.
Chuck his bike in the boot and take him to the park. Seems kind of sensible to me, but it makes a story for all the whingers.

Perhaps there was a cheeky bit of intent in what Boris did.

Stories of over-officious coppers handing out fines - pop in the car and drive 7 miles to a safe place to cycle - makes a point and quite publicly that the law actually allows it and the coppers had gone over the top.

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Originally Posted by Graham Breeze

Alas Anthony when you are PM you have to deal with the scurrilous attacks of the gutter press. And apart from The Guardian there are also the tabloids, snapping at one's heels like rabid dogs....

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Shame on you Graham, criticising the Guardian based on what I’m assuming you assume it said. On the Boris biking thing they’ve been pretty fair from what I’ve seen. The best was from Marina Hyde as usual who suggested that 7 miles away wasn’t nearly far enough for Boris :) https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...e_iOSApp_Other

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Originally Posted by Fellbeast

Shame on you Graham, criticising the Guardian based on what I’m assuming you assume it said. On the Boris biking thing they’ve been pretty fair from what I’ve seen. The best was from Marina Hyde as usual who suggested that 7 miles away wasn’t nearly far enough for Boris :) https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...e_iOSApp_Other

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Good joke. But Marina should have stopped there before the same old - same old vitriol.:)

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Originally Posted by Witton Park

Perhaps there was a cheeky bit of intent in what Boris did.

Stories of over-officious coppers handing out fines - pop in the car and drive 7 miles to a safe place to cycle - makes a point and quite publicly that the law actually allows it and the coppers had gone over the top.

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I suspect this was the case, which will probably go down well with a lot of people, especially those in his party and more broadly who view the current restrictions as an affront to their civil liberties. I suspect they'll also be a whole bunch of others who see it as evidence of the confusing nature of what we're being asked to do e.g. stay local, etc.

Personally, I think it'd better to have very explicit rules on exercise that firmed up the 'local' aspect (i.e. do not exceed x miles from your home). It would be annoying for some (myself included), but it's not forever and would remove the ambiguity around stuff like Johnson's bike ride.

Come to Wales, exercise starts and finishes at our front door, quite straightforward actually.
If people want to moan that they live in the middle of a city and can't get into the hills (which are only a few miles away after all and I drive further to the supermarket, blah, blah, blah), well that is tough.

I don't understand why there is such a fuss about people exercising again. I thought we'd learned from the first lockdown that transmission of the virus outside is considerably more difficult than inside. The number of infections from this source must be tiny. It is crowded indoor venues where the virus is mainly spread. Not so long ago people were being encouraged to exercise more to reduce obesity and prevent them from being badly affected if they caught Covid.

It seems to me there are much more obvious targets to address, supermarkets for a start. In the first lockdown they restricted the numbers entering and some had one way systems. Not anymore, now it is a complete free for all. I went to Tesco's the other and day it was chock a block.

I must admit i've pretty much breezed through the entire Coronavirus... obviously i've complied with everything and not put myself in harm's way... but i've never felt at risk as long as i'm sensible (benefit of being relatively young and healthy i guess).

But been in the supermarket a couple of times since new year and it is now one place i'm pretty hesitant to go to unless a complete necessity... absolutely packed. And in the week before xmas they were even worse.

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Originally Posted by Muddy Retriever

I don't understand why there is such a fuss about people exercising again. I thought we'd learned from the first lockdown that transmission of the virus outside is considerably more difficult than inside. The number of infections from this source must be tiny. It is crowded indoor venues where the virus is mainly spread. Not so long ago people were being encouraged to exercise more to reduce obesity and prevent them from being badly affected if they caught Covid.

It seems to me there are much more obvious targets to address, supermarkets for a start. In the first lockdown they restricted the numbers entering and some had one way systems. Not anymore, now it is a complete free for all. I went to Tesco's the other and day it was chock a block.

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I read once that there had been no case found of anyone catching Covid outdoors - but what have the facts got to do with anything?

And I shop pretty well every day in the Tesco in Ikley and I have only once seen one person without a mask in 10 months. It was so unusual I did a double-take.

More or Less started a new series on R4 this morning, worth a listen if you can get it on BBC sounds. Among other things did we have the highest daily death rate one day last week? (Here's a clue, the answer is No, we had higher days in the first wave) and why a more infectious but less deadly version of the virus is worse than a more deadly less infectious one. Interesting stuff.

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Originally Posted by Muddy Retriever

I don't understand why there is such a fuss about people exercising again. I thought we'd learned from the first lockdown that transmission of the virus outside is considerably more difficult than inside. The number of infections from this source must be tiny. It is crowded indoor venues where the virus is mainly spread. Not so long ago people were being encouraged to exercise more to reduce obesity and prevent them from being badly affected if they caught Covid.

It seems to me there are much more obvious targets to address, supermarkets for a start. In the first lockdown they restricted the numbers entering and some had one way systems. Not anymore, now it is a complete free for all. I went to Tesco's the other and day it was chock a block.

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I guess the fuss is more around people travelling to exercise, not the exercise itself. In many ways I agree with you as it seems unlikely transmission would take place in the outdoors (are there any recorded instances of this even?), but I can see the sense in reasonable* restrictions to people's movements as part of a bigger push to encourage folk to reduce contact/transmission points as much as possible. It's an attempt to instill a mentality where we all stay at home as much as we can, and exercising only from our front door seems a logical extension to that in order to give a clear message. It lacks nuance, but it's probably safer overall.

*Obviously the reasonableness of restrictions will be subjective!

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Originally Posted by Mark G

More or Less started a new series on R4 this morning, worth a listen if you can get it on BBC sounds. Among other things did we have the highest daily death rate one day last week? (Here's a clue, the answer is No, we had higher days in the first wave) and why a more infectious but less deadly version of the virus is worse than a more deadly less infectious one. Interesting stuff.

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More or Less is the best programme on BBC Radio, including the (alleged) News.

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Originally Posted by Graham Breeze

And I shop pretty well every day in the Tesco in Ikley and I have only once seen one person without a mask in 10 months. It was so unusual I did a double-take.

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That's probably a good advert for Ilkley (as if another one were needed). It might be different if you went to the Canal Road branch in Bradford. I regularly see maskless shoppers in Tesco in Macclesfield.

Also, thanks Mark, I'm a loyal listener to More or Less.

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Originally Posted by Muddy Retriever

I don't understand why there is such a fuss about people exercising again. .

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I think all journalists should set out their credentials with their by-line before commenting on exercise eg

- I am a sub 3-hour marathoner and I can ride a 25 miles Time Trial in under the hour,

or

I smoke 50 at day, weigh 20 stones and like 6-8 pints a night to go with my fish 'n' chips.:)

Everything is context.

I took the footpath over the M4 near my house again today. (For my friends living in the North, the M4 is one of those big roads that leads in and out of London. London is that big city in the South in which, for the past few weeks, there have been areas which have experienced some of the highest infection rates in the country.) There was perhaps slightly less traffic than there was last week - much, much less than normal but still significantly more than at the peak of the last lockdown. Crossing the bridge, an image of a conveyor belt jumped into my head. (On a positive note, more people I met seemed to be taking social distancing very seriously. Although that might have been because I was smiling at everyone as we approached each other.)

The situation has been compared to a race between the virus and the vaccine. That analogy could perhaps usefully be extended a little. The virus had planned to use a quad bike but has been banned from doing so by the authorities. However, it has been sponsored by Nike and has been provided with a pair of Vaporflys[*], a Sat-Nav enabled navigation device with 'breadcrumb' functionality, a few pills in a bottle with 'Lance Armstrong Specials' on the label, and a team of helpers to supply a variety of food and drink at regular intervals throughout the race. The vaccine, on the other hand, has ... well, you can make up the rest of the joke yourselves, depending on your individual views.
[*] I wasn't sure which shoes to use for this humorous (?) bit of surrealism. I considered asking the question on Facebook but thought that might telegraph the joke and hence make it even less funny. So, feel free to insert your own choice of shoes to replace my reference to Vaporflys. You can even use deep sea diving boots if you're of the persuasion that the seriousness of the situation has been exaggerated - I'm a very inclusive and woke sort of person, so I've just given you the flexible framework for a joke, which you can tailor to your own individual taste.

PS. If anyone thinks I'm suggesting that wearing Vaporflys would be beneficial for a fell race, you're over-analysing my humour. (Yes, it is humour.)

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Originally Posted by Graham Breeze

And I shop pretty well every day in the Tesco in Ikley

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Tesco's every day!

Is there a checkout girl with "a come to bed smile" drawing you into the store, Graham?

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Originally Posted by Flem

I took the footpath over the M4 near my house again today. (For my friends living in the North, the M4 is one of those big roads that leads in and out of London. London is that big city in the South in which, for the past few weeks, there have been areas which have experienced some of the highest infection rates in the country.) There was perhaps slightly less traffic than there was last week - much, much less than normal but still significantly more than at the peak of the last lockdown. Crossing the bridge, an image of a conveyor belt jumped into my head. (On a positive note, more people I met seemed to be taking social distancing very seriously. Although that might have been because I was smiling at everyone as we approached each other.)

The situation has been compared to a race between the virus and the vaccine. That analogy could perhaps usefully be extended a little. The virus had planned to use a quad bike but has been banned from doing so by the authorities. However, it has been sponsored by Nike and has been provided with a pair of Vaporflys[*], a Sat-Nav enabled navigation device with 'breadcrumb' functionality, a few pills in a bottle with 'Lance Armstrong Specials' on the label, and a team of helpers to supply a variety of food and drink at regular intervals throughout the race. The vaccine, on the other hand, has ... well, you can make up the rest of the joke yourselves, depending on your individual views.
[*] I wasn't sure which shoes to use for this humorous (?) bit of surrealism. I considered asking the question on Facebook but thought that might telegraph the joke and hence make it even less funny. So, feel free to insert your own choice of shoes to replace my reference to Vaporflys. You can even use deep sea diving boots if you're of the persuasion that the seriousness of the situation has been exaggerated - I'm a very inclusive and woke sort of person, so I've just given you the flexible framework for a joke, which you can tailor to your own individual taste.

PS. If anyone thinks I'm suggesting that wearing Vaporflys would be beneficial for a fell race, you're over-analysing my humour. (Yes, it is humour.)

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This is how all jokes should be delivered. Workshop style. :)

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Originally Posted by Travs

But been in the supermarket a couple of times since new year and it is now one place i'm pretty hesitant to go to unless a complete necessity...

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Once you've moved oophnorth Travs you'll be able to avail yourself of both Booths and Cranstons and your supermarket nightmares will fade into the dim, hoi polloi ridden, past :D

On the message about exercise, I recall how we all curtailed our exercise (running, horse-riding, cycling, etc.) and also car travel in Lockdown 1.0 so as to reduce our risk of getting into an accident and so putting unnecessary pressure on the NHS. Indeed, the FRA produced some excellent guidance on moderating 'challenges', etc. That aspect of the exercise message seems absent in recent communications.

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Originally Posted by Llani Boy

Tesco's every day!

Is there a checkout girl with "a come to bed smile" drawing you into the store, Graham?

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There was but I told her, "if you don't come with a Porsche 928 love, forget it!"

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Originally Posted by Mossdog

Once you've moved oophnorth Travs you'll be able to avail yourself of both Booths and Cranstons and your supermarket nightmares will fade into the dim, hoi polloi ridden, past :D

On the message about exercise, I recall how we all curtailed our exercise (running, horse-riding, cycling, etc.) and also car travel in Lockdown 1.0 so as to reduce our risk of getting into an accident and so putting unnecessary pressure on the NHS. Indeed, the FRA produced some excellent guidance on moderating 'challenges', etc. That aspect of the exercise message seems absent in recent communications.

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Indeed, so what is the risk relationship between riding 7 miles (to pick a number in the news recently) in London around umpteen roundabouts duelling with HGVs, taxis,et al versus 17 or even 70 miles on a tranquil country road in Yorkshire?

(This is rhetorical to illustrate the difficulty in establishing a robust and credible basis for rules.)

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Originally Posted by Graham Breeze

Indeed, so what is the risk relationship between riding 7 miles (to pick a number in the news recently) in London around umpteen roundabouts duelling with HGVs, taxis,et al versus 17 or even 70 miles on a tranquil country road in Yorkshire?

(This is rhetorical to illustrate the difficulty in establishing a robust and credible basis for rules.)

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Wish I could find the FRA Advice from March (?) 2020, but I can't.

I don't recall that advice trying to lay down any specific 'rules', nor anything as heavy-handed as that, as self-evidently that would be ridiculous if not also impossible to calculate re any risk formula for individuals. Rather, I recall it helpfully suggested that fellrunners were each mindful of their own limitations, capabilities, and took personal responsibility by acting accordingly. Least, for example, we had to call upon the MRTs and/or ended up occupying a hospital bed or similar at a time the NHS is under extraordinary stress. The same principle might be applied to your cycling example.

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Originally Posted by Mossdog

Wish I could find the FRA Advice from March (?) 2020, but I can't.

I don't recall that advice trying to lay down any specific 'rules', nor anything as heavy-handed as that, as self-evidently that would be ridiculous if not also impossible to calculate re any risk formula for individuals. Rather, I recall it helpfully suggested that fellrunners were each mindful of their own limitations, capabilities, and took personal responsibility by acting accordingly. Least, for example, we had to call upon the MRTs and/or ended up occupying a hospital bed or similar at a time the NHS is under extraordinary stress. The same principle might be applied to your cycling example.

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Yes.

At the time Cycling Weekly discussed the government rules & guidelines which was more in terms of time, distance,etc which was appropriate for road riders. (Cycling Weekly does not address MTB riders).

The FRA guidelines were more in terms of risk of injury on fells and subsequently needing rescue and hospital treatment ...and the impression this would give to the public.

The infamous "hour" of exercise was only ever uttered in a live TV programme by an unthinking Michael Gove who waffled when he answered a question he was unprepared for.

The use of "area" and "local" is deliberately vague because the government know that the more specific they are then the more problems they cause for themselves with people pointing out the problems of being too specific.

I recognise "exercise" suggests going out (although I have a rowing machine!) but the spread of Covid is more because of people going out and meeting other people who have Covid than going for long walks on their own in the country side but avoiding cliff edges.

I only ever cycle from my garden gate but once people start driving to their exercise that really is a slippery slope:)

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Originally Posted by Graham Breeze

Yes.

At the time Cycling Weekly discussed the government rules & guidelines which was more in terms of time, distance,etc which was appropriate for road riders. (Cycling Weekly does not address MTB riders).

The FRA guidelines were more in terms of risk of injury on fells and subsequently needing rescue and hospital treatment ...and the impression this would give to the public.

The infamous "hour" of exercise was only ever uttered in a live TV programme by an unthinking Michael Gove who waffled when he answered a question he was unprepared for.

The use of "area" and "local" is deliberately vague because the government know that the more specific they are then the more problems they cause for themselves with people pointing out the problems of being too specific.

I recognise "exercise" suggests going out (although I have a rowing machine!) but the spread of Covid is more because of people going out and meeting other people who have Covid than going for long walks on their own in the country side but avoiding cliff edges.

I only ever cycle from my garden gate but once people start driving to their exercise that really is a slippery slope:)

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An apartment with a garden gate? How the other half live!

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Originally Posted by Llani Boy

An apartment with a garden gate? How the other half live!

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I shall now laugh myself to sleep.:D

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Originally Posted by Graham Breeze

an unthinking Michael Gove who waffled when he answered a question he was unprepared for.

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Surely not!

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Originally Posted by Flem

Surely not!

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I specifically remember him saying it. The wording was that one hour of exercise should be enough for most people. Should and most. Not must and everyone. So never was or is a limit and flexibility to exercise as appropriate for individuals.

The guidance in Scotland refers to staying in your local authority area for exercise. Does that really mean that people in Highland have 25,000 square kilometers in which they can roam?

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Originally Posted by gej

The guidance in Scotland refers to staying in your local authority area for exercise. Does that really mean that people in Highland have 25,000 square kilometers in which they can roam?

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I was speaking to a mate in Orkney yesterday.

No cases, but they still have the full lockdown measures.

You'd think with the small amount of human traffic coming and going at the moment, they'd be able to find a way of releasing the people of Orkney, such as LFT tests for anyone arriving from the mainland.

You could take it on the ferry.

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Originally Posted by Llani Boy

Anything is OK if it includes a bit of ethnicity.

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No it isn't

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-55680595

I saw a question on facebook asking when we thought that Fell Races would return.... opinions varying from "March" to "never" at each end of the scale...

So what do people think...

Time-trial/staggered start: I'll be optimistic and say we might see these types of races in April in some parts of the UK.

Mass start/normal races: I would like to say June, but i think i'll just say "summer".

It's a tough one to call. So many variables. I'll say September 6th.

I suspect that there will be some races early summer but I think the big problem for the traditional Fell Race is that once the official go ahead is given are villages, village halls, sports clubs etc etc going to want to welcome runners from all over the country.

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Originally Posted by Witton Park

I was speaking to a mate in Orkney yesterday.

No cases, but they still have the full lockdown measures.

You'd think with the small amount of human traffic coming and going at the moment, they'd be able to find a way of releasing the people of Orkney, such as LFT tests for anyone arriving from the mainland.

You could take it on the ferry.

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One case reported on Orkney yesterday.

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Originally Posted by Muddy Retriever

I don't understand why there is such a fuss about people exercising again. I thought we'd learned from the first lockdown that transmission of the virus outside is considerably more difficult than inside.

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It's jealousy and the need to be seen to be treating everyone the same...unless you like to pray in a church/mosque, which for some bizarre reason seems to be totally sacrosanct and largely unaffected by restrictions. I gather there are religious worshipping guidelines, but behind closed doors, with the almighty keeping scores on who's there and who's not, they'll quickly be out of the window. Nothing is worth making a punitive god angry over, we don't want to end up on a spitroast slowly rotating over coals for eternity, do we?

I don't reckon i can get away with driving up to an isolated lay-by and running alone in the dales tommorrow, so i'll be following the rules and staying local. The plan is to park in Otley and join the masses all tripping over each other on the Chevin. People tend to spread themselves out quite a bit over the trails so i'll have a very good shot at getting within a foot or so of everyone i come across.

Mr B.

I hope you got a good run in on the Chevin on Sunday. We found, even in the madness of lockdown 1 when the Chevin was about 300% busier than normal, that it was possible to be alone if you go off piste on small paths that we'd not tried before in 6 years of living there.

Heard today in a piece on radio that Wales had 3 of the 5 worst areas for covid in UK, with Rhondda Cynon Taff being worst in UK.
They also had the worst testing, the worst vaccination programme and have had the hardest lockdown measures of the 4 nations.

It was an ex ONS statistician who lives in the Rhondda.

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Originally Posted by DinoF

Mr B.

I hope you got a good run in on the Chevin on Sunday. We found, even in the madness of lockdown 1 when the Chevin was about 300% busier than normal, that it was possible to be alone if you go off piste on small paths that we'd not tried before in 6 years of living there.

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It's not really my cup of tea Dino!

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Originally Posted by mr brightside

It's not really my cup of tea Dino!

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If you live in Otley you get used to it and go when the punters are not there. Mind we don't have to drive to get there. Ilkley moor is easily attainable from Otley, but is a bit far for a midweek run.
Better to go North of the Wharfe, as you probably know. Love it in the Timble/Round Hill area.

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Originally Posted by MattPo

If you live in Otley you get used to it and go when the punters are not there. Mind we don't have to drive to get there. Ilkley moor is easily attainable from Otley, but is a bit far for a midweek run.
Better to go North of the Wharfe, as you probably know. Love it in the Timble/Round Hill area.

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through timble ings woods towards blubberhouses, and back on the old roman road to lippersley pike? that's a nice stretch.