Championship Races 2023

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Originally Posted by ba-ba

The Intercounties is now (and has been for a while?) the 'Intercounties Mountain Running Championships' and as such is now more fully marked and traily than it might once have been, and sometimes used as a Trials race.

As has been mentioned, it's a balance between purity and pragmatism. We don't expect a nice simple answer from the survey, but we need to get people's viewpoints. It also means that there's eyes on this proposal and people know what's happening - I wouldn't want something like this to be perceived as being 'snuck through' - by FRA or MRAG!

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Alan Barlow was the co-ordinator when I hosted in 2014. It was still fell then. although people would contest the venue as being fell, but I did talk to him about the purists complaining.

His view (I paraphrase) was that there were other championship events out there for purist fell runners, but when it came to Inters, consideration had to be given to counties with less of a fell pedigree and little ability to recce who might have to co-opt in general endurance runners.

Typically around 20 Mens Counties finished teams and maybe 10+ ladies teams. That could have halved if we tried to send them around a typical AM where NS, ER and particularly LK are advised.

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Originally Posted by Witton Park

Alan Barlow was the co-ordinator when I hosted in 2014. It was still fell then. although people would contest the venue as being fell, but I did talk to him about the purists complaining.

His view (I paraphrase) was that there were other championship events out there for purist fell runners, but when it came to Inters, consideration had to be given to counties with less of a fell pedigree and little ability to recce who might have to co-opt in general endurance runners.

Typically around 20 Mens Counties finished teams and maybe 10+ ladies teams. That could have halved if we tried to send them around a typical AM where NS, ER and particularly LK are advised.

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I've known Alan for over twenty years. He was very wise, we helped each other out in our most difficult times as FRA Chairman when we needed counsel; and in the case you cite he was absolutely right.

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Originally Posted by Graham Breeze

Marco

I will always defer to you on cycling history but the period you cite ending 1987 is now over 35 years ago and the sport has changed beyond recognition - not least in the focus on money now mattering more than anything else.

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Whilst cycling has changed a lot since 1987, human physiology has not.

This was the last time there were two world championships, (one was unofficial but highly regarded), and the biggest names won both. The point I'm making is that the very best won championships in a one-off race format and a season-long multi-race format.

And whilst cycling is a different sport, it's a leg-based cardio-intensive one where tactics and course knowledge are important.

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Originally Posted by Witton Park

1 x S
1 x M
1 x L

For Club and Individual at venues that can support minimum 500 runners. I would aim for them to be A Cat, but can see that there are some good B Cat that could be considered such as Stan Bradshaw local to me.

All individual Champs races and then possibly have an overall for combination of all 3 for individuals only.

Wouldn't that work? We have differing endurance distances on road and track.

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Any 2 from the 3 would work for me, just as long as a long is not mandatory.

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Originally Posted by mr brightside

Any 2 from the 3 would work for me, just as long as a long is not mandatory.

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If you have a problem with long or short, which many have, you don't contend the overall, which is for the best all-rounder.

WP's suggestion would get my vote. We have 3 race categories, why not 3 championship events? Not sure if we need the overall one too though.

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Originally Posted by PeteS

WP's suggestion would get my vote. We have 3 race categories, why not 3 championship events? Not sure if we need the overall one too though.

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Bear in mind the overall one isn't an event I'm proposing, merely a calculation.
You could call it fellrunner of the year :)

Fairfield Horseshoe entries online at 10am today for FRA members.

sientries.co.uk

https://nimra.org.uk/wp-content/uplo...XmLtvPYuMfxtVw

Great to see 5 under-23s in the top dozen at the British Champs race today...

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Originally Posted by Travs

Fairfield Horseshoe entries online at 10am today for FRA members.

sientries.co.uk

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Full!

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Originally Posted by Mike T

Full!

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I think they have 30% of places saved for an open entry next week, so expect start list to hit around 500....

I was hoping for an entry...

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Originally Posted by mr brightside

I was hoping for an entry...

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10am friday is when the open entries commence. Limit of 550, and 385 have been taken by FRA members.

Really good weekend in Newcastle and on the Mournes. Great to see a strong front end of the field in the women's and men's races, and the aforementioned amount of U23s (as well as those not long out of that category). The standard Medium Donnard/Commedagh route was this year augmented by the addition of an out and back to Chimney Rock Mountain, via the 'Bog of Donnard' in both directions. In an area as heavy going as the Mournes, an area named 'Bog' can mean only one thing: Bring your snorkel! Conditions were good, with clear hills and a cool breeze only at the very top of the 2 main hills

Nic Jackson (Keswick) had a strong performance to win 2.5 mins ahead of Naomi Lang (Carnethy), who overhauled Hannah Russell (Helm) in 3rd.
Billy Cartwright (Matlock) pulled away from Sascha Chepelin (Carnethy) on the descent of Commedagh for the win; Ben Sharrock (Ambleside) overcoming clubmate Matt Elkington in the woods for 3rd place.

Strong contingents from Carnethy, Helm Hill (who organised a bus which also took Ambleside, Keswick and a couple of Black Combe strays), Keswick, Dark Peak, Ambleside, Mercia, CVFR, Eryri, and so on, made it a very sociable weekend.

A good night was had in O'Hares, with the band starting at 11 and going hard early with a back-to-back of 'Don't look back in Anger' and 'Thunderstruck' to really get the place bouncing! The Bouncers soon requested it mellow out with the frankly terrible 'Chasing Cars' (well it is Northern Ireland) to calm everyone down - though the chants of 'oooooh Haaarry Boolton' suggested this tactic was unsuccessful.

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Originally Posted by Mike T

Full!

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I was fortunate enough to be in Knoydart so couldn't do anything until I got back that afternoon by which time it was full. Just have to try again this Friday - I've missed Fairfield for a good few years for a variety of reasons and finally it looked like I was going to be there and available - fingers crossed.

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Originally Posted by Mark G

I was fortunate enough to be in Knoydart so couldn't do anything until I got back that afternoon by which time it was full.

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By 'eck it's easier t' get a pair o' tickets for a Taylor Swift concert these days than a run int' championship.

I think for FRA members as long as you sort entry in first couple of hours you're generally ok, even for something as obviously popular as Fairfield... Long Mynd Valleys entries were available for several days at least... Might be more difficult for non-members.

The only fell races i've noticed where places really do go in minutes are Cader Idris and Snowdon (i can't speak for Ben Nevis as never attempted to enter).

I see that Lower Borrowdale Skyline, a champs race last year, has been postponed/cancelled this year as they only got something like 37 pre-entries.

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Originally Posted by Travs

I see that Lower Borrowdale Skyline, a champs race last year, has been postponed/cancelled this year as they only got something like 37 pre-entries.

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That's a real shame. It was a very enjoyable race and one that I thought would be popular.

For whatever reason, the fact that it does not appear in the 2023 FRA Race Calendar wouldn't have helped.

It's a nice route and a worthy addition, but it's in a congested area of the calendar, both temporal and location. Maybe finding a niche in a less populated area might work? A bit of weather could make it an interesting race - though could make access to the parking an issue.

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Originally Posted by ba-ba

It's a nice route and a worthy addition, but it's in a congested area of the calendar, both temporal and location. Maybe finding a niche in a less populated area might work? A bit of weather could make it an interesting race - though could make access to the parking an issue.

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With a bit of classic fell runner's navigation, it would be possible to include the Lower Borrowdale Skyline while running your Tebay race. :p

you'd hope they'd notice crossing the M6 and the west coast mainline, but then again we are talking about fell runners...

Fairfield is 50 up on waitlist already, i probably won't get in, so travs will have to wait for his revenge.

I'd recommend getting on the waiting list. I wouldn't be surprised to see a high turnover of entries.

A quick look at the entry list and its going to be another tough battle to get near the points.... perhaps not quite as loaded in the Vet category as Long Mynd Valleys was, but with 550 entries there's always going to be a good number of "unknown" veterans on top of the usual suspects.

I've not entered Fairfield as I've got Cadair Idris the following Saturday so am being sensible and not try and do two Champs races in a week!

I've got inter counties at Sedbergh the weekend before Fairfield, so a tough 7 days... both going to be quick and runnable, the counties especially which is a "mountain running" course.

I did have Yorkshire Three Peaks the weekend before that as well, but in light of getting the Warwickshire vest, the Three Peaks has got to wait for another year.

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Originally Posted by Travs

10am friday is when the open entries commence. Limit of 550, and 385 have been taken by FRA members.

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I was lucky enough to get an entry just after 10.00 this morning - then I watched the rest of the remaining places fill up in about 20 minutes.

I see that Colin Donnelly was 1st v60 at the Scottish Champs race today....

There's one for you to aim for Llani...!!

I've got an entry for Fairfield as a result of drop-outs, just need to avoid the bad step now.

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Originally Posted by mr brightside

I've got an entry for Fairfield as a result of drop-outs, just need to avoid the bad step now.

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MrB i don't know if you're on facebook, but MikeT's photos on there from his run last tuesday are very helpful...

I will be reccying this section friday as well.

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Originally Posted by Travs

MrB i don't know if you're on facebook, but MikeT's photos on there from his run last tuesday are very helpful...

I will be reccying this section friday as well.

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I'll take a look, I try to stay away from the place really. I don't really have any opportunity to prepare for it so I don't know how it's going to go...

Tomorrow then....

I'll be reccying the final descent section at lunchtime.

Although had a rather alarming physio visit earlier this week.... have a fairly decent torn calf (not actually very painful), and (less serious but considerably more painful) a strained hip flexor.

I should be ok to race given i've taken it incredibly easy this week (the benefit of having a physio who is also a committed runner is she knows what advice i'll take on board, and what i'm likely to completely ignore), but will then need up to a fortnight off afterwards to let things repair.

So basically in the last fortnight, except for doing the inter-counties and (hopefully) Fairfield tomorrow i'll have done no training in anger.

Fingers crossed i'll be on the start line tomorrow.... i'll certainly be giving it my all and pushing for a pb ... i just don't expect to know if i can run hard until i get stuck into my warmup.

Sounds like you're outstripping the capacity of your biomechanics. Overcoming this begins with a long rest because the soft tissues have to heal and that's the only way they will. The process itself can be likened to filling a jug with water one drop per day while it drains from a hole in the base at a rate of one drop every two days, the conclusion is a mathematical certainty. You can't cheat your own biomechanics, I learnt that the hard way. One of the hardest things I've ever had to do was make peace with the facts of this process, and accept I will never be the runner I want to be.

Hopefully see you tomorrow.

Turned my ankle fairly badly with about 3.5m still to go, it was a stop running immediately injury. It takes a lot of time to walk off that ridge with an injury; I'm very badly sunburnt, but I had a nice woman hiker with a couple of dogs for company all the way.

I was just getting going when happened. The trod was congested so I was dropping on and off the rocky path to overtake, I switched across and my foot rolled off something I had not seen and my reflexes couldn't keep up.

I correctly predicted dehydration would be a factor today, I had my hydration strategy nailed, but of course I buggered my ankle. Probably won't be racing again this summer, I'll know in the coming week.

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Originally Posted by mr brightside

Turned my ankle fairly badly with about 3.5m still to go, it was a stop running immediately injury. It takes a lot of time to walk off that ridge with an injury; I'm very badly sunburnt, but I had a nice woman hiker with a couple of dogs for company all the way.

I was just getting going when happened. The trod was congested so I was dropping on and off the rocky path to overtake, I switched across and my foot rolled off something I had not seen and my reflexes couldn't keep up.

I correctly predicted dehydration would be a factor today, I had my hydration strategy nailed, but of course I buggered my ankle. Probably won't be racing again this summer, I'll know in the coming week.

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Sorry to hear that - it is a long ridge to descend with an injury. Good luck with your rehabilitation.

It was a relief to see you coming down the track MrB.... myself and Daz were slightly concerned as time ticked by and you hadn't came in.

Will post up a report tomorrow... But it was a scorching day and there were some people really suffering on the course and at the finish.

Interesting to read of the sun-baked Cumbrian fells, when here in Leicestershire I was regretting not wearing gloves for my cycle ride.

Anyway, I hope your ankle mends quickly, Mr B.

Talofibular doesn't seem to have taken a big hit, the metatarsal tendons and the joint capsule feel to have been mainly affected. I'll be starting my mobilisation and proprioception exercises tommorrow; for the nerve fibres to repair effectively they have to need to transmit signals, you need to get on the wobble cushion twice a day as soon as you can take the pain.

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Originally Posted by Travs

It was a relief to see you coming down the track MrB.... myself and Daz were slightly concerned as time ticked by and you hadn't came in.

Will post up a report tomorrow... But it was a scorching day and there were some people really suffering on the course and at the finish.

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It was a good day for people like Darren, who can do a 95min sunbaked race off little more than a cup of tea.

It was a stunning morning yesterday on the Ullswater side of Kirkstone. Possibly one of the most beautiful mornings i've seen in 25 years. It was a little cloudier down by Rydal, but it was clear it was going to be a hot day (despite one of the marshals who assured me that there'd be a nice breeze on the tops which would shock a few people)

I'm not particularly a fan of the initial 20mins of this race, the valley track is uneven, and so is the first climb to Nab Scar, can't really get a good rhythm, and obviously the heat was making itself known early as well... still sneaked past MrB and Tindersticks up the valley track, and set about putting plenty of distance between myself and them, and a few others as well.

Once on the ridge proper i was at the back of a decent group containing the likes of John Hunt, DanGilbert, Mel Price, Sophie Likeman... however here i made my one route error of the race... followed two Helm Hill chaps on a very low line around Heron Pike, expecting this was local knowledge and a patented MikeT shortcut... however it proved to be pretty duff, no trod, just a trudge across tussocks then a climb back up... cost me about 60-90secs on the group i was with, and i expected i'd never get back to them.

Just worked as hard as possible in the conditions up to the summit, reaching Fairfield 2mins behind my pb schedule, on 59:30.... DanGilbert only 30secs in front... however heat really making itself known here and as soon as i tried to get into a fast pace for the descent i immediately felt pretty sick... nobody else was moving particularly well so i just kept the hammer down as much as possible.

Even so, it took me until High Pike cairn to reel DanGilbert in.... i was somewhat concerned about the likes of Virgil Barton, TIndersticks and MrB behind, who would surely be descending at a rate of knots faster than me.... so set my sights on Mel Price only about a minute in front.

With the fresh knowledge of friday's recce, i was just waiting for people to slip up so i could take advantage... however everyone around seemed to know the decent lines and i was unable to make headway... by the time i hit the rocky path bypassing the step, i was done, no chance of getting back to Mel, and it was just a case of making the finish.

The last 1.2km up the track were absolutely pitiful... at about 500mtrs to go i asked a walker if there was anyone behind me, and he told me there was nobody within 100 metres... i was still caught by 2 people on the line.

1hr48.... about 2mins shy of a pb.... so my 2mins lost on the climb did the damage and i couldn't pull it back on the way down.

That said, overall pretty pleased... given my injury issues i had no idea how it was going to pan out, and i finished about "par"... just behind Mel Price, just in front of Virgil Barton... sometimes i beat them both, sometimes they hammer me... so i can't have done too badly.

56th vet.... 40th vet was at about 1:43, so as predicted i'd have needed a decent pb to trouble the points... in fact i'd have needed even better than that if conditions had been kinder as i expect everybody would have been a bit faster.

Hello to DanGilbert, MrB, Tindersticks.... and i think i spotted ba-ba around.