Printable View
The organiser may have his reasons for this age limit TT but as far as I understand it the FRA gudance is that for races of 4 miles or less,ages 15 and above can run (and be insured accordingly) I may be wrong though!!
I organise a couple of short races and have had parents of chldren under the age limit ask me if their kids can run and have come up with a similar arrangement as you menton above.
Its a respect thing really.It would be like going to a party where everyone took a bottle,yet a couple didn't.As has been pointed out,organizers do work hard and to have freeloaders tag along just to be clever must be dispiriting.Lets say it started as few not paying,and then the number grew,the sport as an organized body would cease to exist.Quote:
Originally Posted by FellMonster
Another point is that anyone 'running along' ,IS associated with the race,whether it is a matter of fact or not,so if they were to create damage or misbehave,the organizer would be left to defend the race even though the perpetrator had nothing to do with the event.
You say you don't understand the problem I would imagine,because I would assume you have had nothing to do with the organization of a race or the work that goes into it.I've read the pathetic excuses for people 'running along',but that is what they are,excuses made by cheap freeloaders who are looking to get on the back of an event for nothing,they want the fun,but not the commitment of paying a fee,just parasites really....
I think even if you do train round there why dont you just pay the entry fee and support a local race.
You forgot to mention that this 'party' take place on what is largely public land where anyone is free to roam.Quote:
Originally Posted by Toots
Sure I understand where you are coming from, and hell to a very large extent I actually agree with you but I'm still happy to 'argue the toss' as it were.......presumably you've read about the race that is not a race in Wales? I'll bet that's the most enjoyable race anyone runs in Wales.
I also happen to think you're being a bit harsh on 'freeloaders' as label them....I'll bet somewhere down the line in some aspect of your life you've freeloaded too........a free this or that?
You also couldn't have picked a worse quote to quote me on in my opinion......If Simon Booth trains around Borrowdale every Saturday but isn't fit enough to race it when it comes around, why the hell should he not train round the route on the day of the race just because the race is on......
What races do you organize Dux de Lux
Twice a year they hold a midweek cycle road race on the road I use to cycle to work , should I have to enter the race so I can get home from work or would this be a pathetic excuse for not entering.
Which race? The only one I can think of is Tryfan down hill dash, not done the race itself but it wouldn't be a patch on Moelyns, Peris, Cnicht, Eilio or many other well organised races where a fee is paid.Quote:
Originally Posted by FellMonster
Re Booth, true to a point, but if I was running say the Peris route on race day which basicaly circles my house I'd start a bit later or a bit sooner.
At least its people that are doing this. I heard the Race for Life i am doing in June, that i should not get in the wrong group, as the walking group which i did not plan on getting in anyhow, has owners and their dogs, which if i had known i would not have entered, i love animals, but for a race i think or i thought it was for humans only.
Soz, for the complaint as you can tell its really riled me up LOL!
Just a quick add on, at the Waltz we had a girl run off the fell with the rest of a big bunch onto the field (a private field i might add) and through the funnel ...... only mentioning the fact that she hadn't bothered to enter til after a time had been recorded... this caused loads of problems
1. our race results were out by 1 from that point on.. causing a nightmare reaching back down the split times... hence you didn't get them for a week rather than the 2-3 days it usually takes.
2. Definatley more important, For safety our marshals know how many runners we have entered and check them through their checkpoints, if rogue runners come through we could end up with a situation where we have a lost or damaged runner and not know about it....... think of the implications not only for the runner but the race organisers....
If I find out who it was I will ban them from our race forever, cos we don't need the potential hassle that that sort of irresponsible behavior can cause.
I don't know Simon Booth,but if he's a half decent bloke,which I assume he is,then I'm fairly positive he wouldn't train round a race route that is having a race run on it.In fact I'm sure he,as are most of the top guys in our sport are more than aware of the difficulties of organizing a race,and would not do anything to hinder its success.As for getting something for nothing?,you completely miss the point.If you enjoy something and it is created through the hard work and money of others,it would be totally counter productive to freeload that event.We rely on others to make these events happen,the more difficult the freeloaders make it,and I make no apologies for using that term,then the quicker our sport will fall apart.Quote:
Originally Posted by FellMonster
If I saw cartons of eggs at the side of the road with an honesty box,then I'd put the money in it.I don't have to,but the decent thing,and the thing that will make sure the thing continues, would be to put the money in the box.The more that don't will spoil it ,simple as that.If you don't understand the points I am making,then why are you on this forum?,why be part of organized Fellrunning at all?,I thought that was the whole point of it.
We can all go for a run on our own,but if you want a 'sport',then it has to be paid for,by everyone.Races have to be insured and organized,and yes it is on public paths,but again if you don't understand the point,then what are you doing on here?.
Iain, the not-a-race is Trans Fan. Its a great day out but a totally different vibe to a proper race. No comparison there.
I can't believe we're having this discussion at all. The self-centredness of some people never ceases to amaze me. So what if a race is on public land or goes where you want to train? If you had any inkling at all of what goes into organising a race or any shred of respect for the RO or the fact that a race was put on for the enjoyment of others, then 'running along' would never enter your mind.
To me, this falls into the same category as littering or wall-climbing. No idea, no respect, no caring, me-only f*cking ignorance! Typical of modern society then!!:(
If you read back far enough (1 page might even do Wheeze) then you'll see that I actually said I largely agreed with the point being made. My continuation of the debate was because I was stating that people had a "right to roam" on public access land......Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheeze
I appreciate that 99% of people reading this will think us pedantic Fellboy, but your statement was exactly the type of point I was making......so, in my books anyway......well saidQuote:
Originally Posted by fellboy
Fair comment in your last paragraph Iain, but again the point I was making was that a member of the public has a right to do the former if they please, so long as they are on public land....maybe they want a training run and don't want to be included in the results?Quote:
Originally Posted by IainR
Perhaps Wynn, you are making a case for big profile races such as yourselves using SPORTident.....did none of the marshalls think to question said runner about her lack of number? How did they record her in the results, with a time, if she had no number? Perhaps, I'm being very naive here (and it's very possible) but I'm confused by it.... Agreed however, that it is appalling that there was no confession to not being in the race....Quote:
Originally Posted by wynn
We're indulging in a bit of debate.....isn't that a great reason for me to be on the forum? Gosh, very harsh toots.......that is the purpose of a "forum".......I'd hate to think you take that attitude with other peoples......if you don't understand something it is perfectly acceptable to ask and question.........if they come back by politely telling you to F*** off....(and you have been polite, I acknowledge that).....well.......Quote:
Originally Posted by Toots
I found your eggs at the side of the road analogy most amusing.....perhaps you 'd do well to not place all yours (paid for or otherwise) in the one basket, petal ;)
I've always thought the following:
Race being run over your fave training ground? Then run somewhere else or start a lot earlier/later. You'll only be missing out on one training run after all so tailor the route accordingly. There's plenty of room for everyone! :p
Be respectful and don't run in a race that you've not entered - it can cause confusion to marshals/timekeepers etc not to mention potentially hacking off other competitors.
Quite simple really.
A perfectly valid opinion Jodj, but you're assuming the said runner in our analogy knew in advance there was a race on his/her favourite training route.
It is perfectly feasible that a more adventurous casual runner could stumble upon a fellrace while out for a trot, get carried away and trot round with runners......it's hardly a capital offence is it.
The supposition has clearly been made here that a said runner has deliberately and maliciously set out to piss people off and inflict economic hardbeing on the race organiser. Though having said that, there are clearly many on here who have the capacity to stubbornly take such a stance ......I mean you all kick off about littering, but I'll bet there's litterers using the forum.
Kinnel fellmonster:(
I'm sadly not understanding your meaning sirQuote:
Originally Posted by Nee Bother
I could be wrong (usually am) but you seem to be pulling things to pieces for the sake of it, arguing (debating!) over nowt.Quote:
Originally Posted by FellMonster
Ken
Kinnel...as in George Kinnel :D
It's true I'm a pedant, but then we could get iinto the nature of pedantry and the philosophy of debate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nee Bother
It is equally true that many on the forum start a riot over nothing however. I just like to join in the debate. The crazy irony is (as I've stated numerous times previously) that I largely agree with them. Funny old world
Start a riot over nothing? Could you define nothing please?
i totaly understand where fellmonster is coming from and agree 100%.i help putting on our club race in the wyre forrest which is open to the public but i expect competitors to show respect to other people enjoying the forrest even if they are out for a run. i realise the world doesn't revolve around our running club and if its their local training route they have more right to be there than entrants who have come from miles away just for the race.the real f*ck*ng self centred,me,me,people are the ones who expect everyone else to put their life on hold just so you can put a race on.if you show consideration to these people they might enter the race next year, with the kind of ignorant attitudes shown on this thread they would never join in.:mad:
More eloquent than I could have mustered. Well said sir.....Quote:
Originally Posted by fellboy
In most fell races somebody has chosen a course, worked out the distance and the height gained (and possibly even produced a profile), marshals have been posted, in many cases facilities at the start and/or finish have been provided, etc., etc. To run, without entering the race, is simply taking advantage, and it is difficult to see why anyone should do it.
I think this problem depends on the extent to which non-entrants attempt to integrate themselves into the race e.g. baulking competitors, confusing marshals at check points, running through funnels etc. This is plain stupid and unnecessary, when done by fell runners. The worrying aspect is - is it deliberate?
By all means follow a race to spectate, learn about the course, support friends etc. BUT, people who are fell runners should know better than to cause these sort of problems. It isn't difficult to step away from and bypass check points or speak to marshals and make damn sure you haven't been counted. Mis-counting of competitors can cause no end of problems with results never mind safety. I once finished the Noon Stone race 10 feet and 6 minutes behind the chap in front thanks to some idiot who went through the funnel and put the recording out by one. That also meant that the last competitor was in effect already accounted for, while he was still out on the 9 mile course on a very bleak day.
After last year's OMM furore, I suspect the media are eager to spot another 'outdoors' problem. On that occasion it was created by the actions of an outsider, but we really shouldn't self inflict problems.
Applying FRA Rule 7 and for that matter Rule 8 could deal with these apparently deliberate actions by some people. Banning irresponsible culprits from events, naming and shaming - definitely. It's been done in the past - I recall someone getting banned from all FRA races for 9 months as a result of breaking Rule 8 (by not even starting the race and going home!)
Sadly not taking responsibility, being selfish seems to be the modern culture.
An increasingly grumpy old man!:(
Loughrigg and WansfellQuote:
Originally Posted by TurboTom
Have you ever organised a race Fellboy?
It would appear that the only excuse that COULD stand up is that someone who likes to run in wild places, just happens to go out on a bit of land, which just happens to have a race organised on it, that just happens to be taking place at the same time:-Not very likely is it
I ran am just coming to the end of an injury and coincidently there was a local race on Tuesday night.
I paid my money, let the field start and jogged along near the back. Once we reached the main uphill bit I was obviously fitter than some, and jogged my way past a number of struggling folk, I guess they would have been somewhat disgruntled if I had been a ‘non-paying trainer’.
So the results will show that I was someway behind my normal position – will anyone else be bothered. Will I lose any sleep:- No, I slept soundly knowing that even though I am the proverbial tight Yorkshire man, I was happy to support one of my local races.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fellboy
Jeez Wheeze, he says he helps out with putting on a race.....clearly the sticking point here is with "deliberate" offenders.......Fellboy has made a very good point.........life doesn't have to stop for a race being put onQuote:
Originally Posted by Wheeze
People seem to be confusing some points. The complaints seem to be the person running around all the course and 'finishing' the race as if they'd paid for it, then seemingly claiming that they 'didn't realise a fell race was on'. Chances of this happening by accident are pretty slim.
Few people I would say think that the world stops for their race and no-one should be near it. Some seem to be arguing for the sake of it and quite frankly loads of people are arguing from the same side!!
I do think that the health and safety point especially on a potentally high peak is important. I also think that if you want to go into the outdoors and see loads of runners coming through or potentially starting, you'd probably want to give them a wide berth or go elsewhere as from a personal point of view if I go off road I want the piece and quiet away from others so I can run slowly (I don't do quick!!) alone.