Re: Makes you proud to be Brit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Witton Park
I don't actually think it is a race issue - and never was - it's more of a class issue.
Take the Indian sub-continent. Amongst the lowest achievers are the Pakistani and Bangladeshi youth. But the Indian are amongst the highest achievers.
They are the same race.
The Indians are differing religions - so it's not linked to religion.
But the Indians are generally middle class business people. The Pakistani / Bangladeshi are working class. They came to work in the factories and those jobs are no longer there.
That's the same issue for the white working class.
The middle class in this country (generally) have a built in level of aspiration that is driven by parents, grandparents and taken up by the kids.
The working class - well there isn't really one anymore. It's really a benefits / low income / tax credits class.
What have they to aim for?
If they work and they try to earn more, they lose tax credits.
If they don't work, and take a job, they often lose out financially.
If they try hard to achieve at school, they often have no option other than a failing school.
The online LET article doesn't have the Stats. They show that in 2009 Burnley and Padiham's best School achieved only 43% 5 A-C at GCSE with an average of 35%.
Blackburn had one school at 11% - that school doesn't even turn up for the Town Athletics or XC Champs - so not only are they failing at Academic subjects, they are failing in all areas.
If you end up at that 11% school, what are your chances?
Im working class as are a lot of us and we wouldnt see ourselves as leaning on a metaphorical crutch of benefits or whatever. I dont think it is a class issue either unless of course it is concerning the gulf between Private and normal education (yet private schools have come out low due to discrepancies with the IGcse)
Obviously the school with the 11% is a c ulmination probably of a poor area, with poor resourceas and ultimately a poor reputation which means it wont attract the top young academic people...so is it a failing of the class system or a failing of schools and a victory for elitism.
I know what they have to aim for a better life....its obvious. All these schemes by the government to try and get working class kids as doctors, vets etc...im quite envious because im just not clever enough but hey ho shit happens. However there are those who are content with simple lives relying on benefits and unfortuantely they all go to certain schools and bring their standards and thos of other students down
Re: Makes you proud to be Brit
It's a really tough experience growing up in a sink estate which is isolated socially and physically (in my case, but a stinking great dual carriageway) from the rest of the town, city and indeed country. You almost feel like you're not expected to achieve, like trying at school is some kind of statement that you're better than the rest of your mates. My school year yielded just 2 people with 5 good GCSEs or more (this was 1989) and 3 professional footballers. I've grown quite fond of that statistic in an odd way. The school has been knocked down now, thankfully.
I remember saying that I wanted to be a teacher, and therefore do A levels. My friends' parents, not just my classmates, would take the pi55. As though i was deluded. Our school didn;t offer a 6th form and further education seemed a world away. When you're young, these things matter and there's hardly anyone to tell you that what you're experiencing is not what you'll get everywhere else - teenagers will vwey readily think the world is against them when it isn't. I remember one of my teachers telling me to stay realistic and not get my hopes up. Can you beleive that!?! It's very hard for kids in that situation - and it breaks more that it makes.
My mum, and also the people I met through Scouting were the only factors that provided any kind of inspiration and evidence that it was ok to think differently. Mum provided the ideas and the will, but Scouting (which led to getting on the hills :) ) provided the evidence.
Schools can only do so much, but non school peer groups such as Scouting, sport etc, even origami if it works are a vital ingredient to help kids step out of the all too frequent pattern of lack of encouragement, delinquency and then onto far worse in some cases
Reading those articles make my heart sink. Kids , esp those in the toughest areas or family circumstances, need to achieve from as early as possible, not just at school or at football. FInd that achivement outlet and you've got a chance. The government have put most of their eggs in teh '5 GCSEs' basket and then aimed low. It's horrible.
Re: Makes you proud to be Brit
I agree with all you've put there ST.
Life is like a game of Snakes and Ladders.
About 40 years ago there were more ladders and less snakes.
Re: Makes you proud to be Brit
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0DUsGSMwZY
Have a look at this Tom. It's comedy, but in many respects that how it was. Three clearly defined classes.
These are now blurred. The Upper / Middle Class have become blurred in to one.
The working class are taking hols to Florida. But there's a new class below working class where the problems need resolving.
Re: Makes you proud to be Brit
I'm a teacher, so I'm biased, please don't shoot the messenger, these are my opinions.
1) TT, like what you say, (wont quote etc) very well argued points, some of your education is obviously working as your points are argued eloquently. If that was general studies I'd mark it high. :D
2) Low achieving schools still produce high class people, my head of year 11 went to a school in Bradford that had VERY low results (single figures), if you have aspirations you can do it. Another friend is probably one of the best teachers I have seen, his school had 5% 5A-C but he did well.
3) 30% is rubbish and only arbitary. My school achieved its highest ever results this year 27%, are we rubbish? No, our pupils should have achieved 23%, in Calderdale we added more value than the grammar schools! We were criticized in the local paper and stated we were in danger of being shut down, great for undermining pupils confidence. The fact is many of our pupils have horrific home lives and school is low on their agenda, getting 5 passes is an achievement. Our school is getting there and I'm proud of my classes but I know that a class of grade Cs is a world away. They are top pupils and deserve help not the media slating them.
4) IN recent snow, certain roads were clear, Siddal / exley wasn't, thats' where our school is, does it give them confidence that people care?
5) Not all pupils can achieve in these subjects, vocational subjects need to be brought back so that some can aspire to those. A goos school supplies the right courses for the right pupils, that is restricted to some extent.
6) I agree that there is a cultural difference to work from different pupils, but alot goes down to upbringing and what parents expect. I have pupils from the roughest estate who are on line for BB at GCSE science, but some of the better off pupils heading for DD!!
Sorry this post is long but I'll argue on behalf of children at school..
Re: Makes you proud to be Brit
Biara - Sounds like you would approve of a return to the Grammar School / Secondary Modern system of the 60s that worked so well.
It allowed social mobility - kids from poorer backgrounds could get a top class academic education.
Kids who went to the secondary modern were allowed to develop academically or vocationally dependant upon their ability and desire.
But I bet I've read you wrong ;)
Re: Makes you proud to be Brit
Don't want grammar schools / secondary modern (albeit daughter in private school!!) but want all pupils to be able to achieve to the best of their abilities. The best achieving school I ever worked at had pupils going on to be vets (ie 3As at A-level) but also pupils studying for apprenticeships in building at local college, it used to be possible and done.
There is no reason why all pupils shouldn't be treated equally. I didn't even take 11+ as didn't want to go to local grammar school. I don't believe in grammar schools, don't like private but think all should be able to do the best they can. Local secondary is poor, so sent daughter private. Yes, I know I'm lining myself up to be accused of hypocrisy but it's my daughter!!!
Re: Makes you proud to be Brit
The point is, it used to work. Many didn't like it as it was seen as an inequality, as a two-tier system.
The Utopian idea that all could be taught under one roof, under the same framework, with the same facilities is not feasible and has been shown as such.
Why did the old system of Academic Unis and Vocational Polys work? Because they could focus on what they were good at.
It was the same with the secondary schools.
Re: Makes you proud to be Brit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Witton Park
The point is, it used to work. Many didn't like it as it was seen as an inequality, as a two-tier system.
The Utopian idea that all could be taught under one roof, under the same framework, with the same facilities is not feasible and has been shown as such.
Why did the old system of Academic Unis and Vocational Polys work? Because they could focus on what they were good at.
It was the same with the secondary schools.
Don't agree totally but I accept your argument and understand where you are coming from. I remember a previous post re. schools in your area. (a while back!!).
I believe that good well organised schools can do it all under 1 roof. I went to a local comp on the council estate in Kent, I lived about a mile away, not on the estate. That school produced excellent results from CSEs to A-levels, pupils achieved. Some went to uni, others to apprenticeships, the teachers cared, took us away regularly and were happy to do so. Check out the Priory School, Orpington, it still has Ramfield, the outdoor pursuits centre the school bought in South Wales, good schools can do it all. I accept that I was lucky with my schooling!! I also accept that I'm an idealist when it comes to education, maybe not a realist but I do my best....;)
Re: Makes you proud to be Brit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TurboTom
Im working class as are a lot of us and we wouldnt see ourselves as leaning on a metaphorical crutch of benefits or whatever. I dont think it is a class issue either unless of course it is concerning the gulf between Private and normal education (yet private schools have come out low due to discrepancies with the IGcse)
Obviously the school with the 11% is a c ulmination probably of a poor area, with poor resourceas and ultimately a poor reputation which means it wont attract the top young academic people...so is it a failing of the class system or a failing of schools and a victory for elitism.
I know what they have to aim for a better life....its obvious. All these schemes by the government to try and get working class kids as doctors, vets etc...im quite envious because im just not clever enough but hey ho shit happens. However there are those who are content with simple lives relying on benefits and unfortuantely they all go to certain schools and bring their standards and thos of other students down
Tom, dont put yourself down mate. Judging from your posts and your blogs etc, you have shown some excellent reasoning and thought processes. You certainly are an independent thinker which is a great attribute.
These skills will get you far; never let a teacher or anyone else for that matter convince your not good enough for your chosen career path.
