Today's Training

"Training" is a funny thing for me to define as far as fell running is concerned. I usually run everyday but on a couple of days each week those 'runs' might just be a local 2 mile jog around the river with the dogs. Another 3 will be longer run outs, with Hester and the dogs, with us usually fitting in bigger expeditions in say the Lakes at the weekend and what not. We sometimes blast known strava segments on these runs and sometimes push it quite hard but mostly its all about be out in the wilderness and mountains adventuring... with I guess our preferred mode of travel while adventuring being fell and/or trail running. With covid we don't really bother with any club runs right now (Hester used to try and go once a week) but we do usually also fit in one mid-week evening run out with two or three running friends which are mostly steady away fun social runs. And currently I'm doing my one solo fell race, speed blast, time attack each week which, of it all, is the most like 'training' in that it hurts and I'm going full at it. Oh and I also try to do two CrossFit 'engine' gym sessions a week, which also hurt and are also full on. My weekly mileage is in the 30 to 50 mile range and weekly ascent anything between 5,000 feet and 15,000 feet I guess. I guess that's training then but it all feels nicely in balance, without continually pushing things and never a grind.

Maybe when fell, trail and ultra races come back I'll have a bit more speed, strength and endurance and do a bit better, but if I don't who cares :)

Street hill reps for me today. Unremarkable except that up to Sunday I'd had 8 days off running with a cold, then very short/easy on Sunday (fine), usual weekday 11.5km on Monday that was ok, and then the same again yesterday that felt desperate. Following that I'd planned an easy run today but felt ok when I left the house and ended up cruising what can feel like hard session sometimes. Weird, though I think I've had it before where I really struggle one day and then feel great the day after.

Up to Beacon Hill, back via Windmill Hill.

By the path up to the summit of Beacon Hill there was a woman sheltering under a tree with two small children. I somehow found the breath to call out to her, "The rain isn't going to stop!"; and then found myself slowing to a walk on the final short steep push to the summit.

Earlier in the morning, Beacon Hill had been concealed in clag, and I was a little disappointed that it had cleared by the time I went up there. But having a clear view didn't stop me making a daft nav error, going back down the way I had come up instead of taking the path towards Windmill Hill. I realised when I saw the woman with the two small children, and then cut across the open heathland to regain the correct path.

It's not just speed that declines with age, but recovery from hard training sessions. After a reasonably brisk run up Beacon Hill two days ago, I intended to do Buck Hill and the Outwoods today, but soon decided to truncate it to just the Outwoods, and had to walk up two steep slopes in the woods. There was even a calf taking the p*ss in one of the fields next to the path up to the woods. Actually, not taking the p*ss, more giving the p*ss: standing near the fence separating its field from the footpath, and relieving itself in my direction.

Had a bash at the local Parkrun course this morning.

19:14

No excuses, when it got uncomfortable i didn't push hard enough, and subsequently didn't get anywhere near the time i felt capable of.

I did find it a bit of a struggle to tune into race-mode when doing it solo and nobody to chase. Perhaps will try again on the track next weekend, where i seem to be able to find that race mentality, even when alone.

Despite today's effort, i still feel even on current form there's a minute to come off that next week.

Another solid week, 59 miles 11,750ft. Only low point being yesterdays lacklustre 5km. Although i'm not reading too deeply into it, just going to put it down as a poor run.

Next week will almost definitely see less miles, although should be productive, as got the first club session back on the track since last winter, and another attempt at a "fast" 5km next weekend.

Another 5 Wainwrights ticked off this afternoon. Graystones, Broom Fell, Lord's Seat, Barf and Whinlatter. Only 1 left in the NW fells book. 16km, 800m.

Another fantastic solo race/ Strava segment attack yesterday. And of what I used to call the worst possible kind - just 1.23 miles in total up and down Raven Crag at the top of Thirlmere. The climb is brutal - c 850 ft in two thirds of a mile - and so is the descent over a mixture of old steps near the top, rocks and rubble and, yesterday, wet and slick leaves over mud, stones and tree roots.

Anyway I smashed it, coming in tenth ever on the climb only segment (out of 152) and third ever on the up and down segment (out of 69). 14:37 minutes to the top and 22:53 up and down.

In drier conditions I can do better :).

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Originally Posted by Fellbeast

Another fantastic solo race/ Strava segment attack yesterday. And of what I used to call the worst possible kind - just 1.23 miles in total up and down Raven Crag at the top of Thirlmere. The climb is brutal - c 850 ft in two thirds of a mile - and so is the descent over a mixture of old steps near the top, rocks and rubble and, yesterday, wet and slick leaves over mud, stones and tree roots.

Anyway I smashed it, coming in tenth ever on the climb only segment (out of 152) and third ever on the up and down segment (out of 69). 14:37 minutes to the top and 22:53 up and down.

In drier conditions I can do better :).

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I did that last autumn, and think i managed a similar time from the road, if i recall correctly about 14mins up and 8 down. Like you, definitely think time to come off under race conditions.

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Originally Posted by Travs

I did that last autumn, and think i managed a similar time from the road, if i recall correctly about 14mins up and 8 down. Like you, definitely think time to come off under race conditions.

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The best time to the summit (on Strava) is an amazing 9:52 minutes, by a young up and coming Keswick AC superstar by the looks of things. Top effort that

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Originally Posted by Fellbeast

Another fantastic solo race/ Strava segment attack yesterday. And of what I used to call the worst possible kind - just 1.23 miles in total up and down Raven Crag at the top of Thirlmere. The climb is brutal - c 850 ft in two thirds of a mile - and so is the descent over a mixture of old steps near the top, rocks and rubble and, yesterday, wet and slick leaves over mud, stones and tree roots.

Anyway I smashed it, coming in tenth ever on the climb only segment (out of 152) and third ever on the up and down segment (out of 69). 14:37 minutes to the top and 22:53 up and down.

In drier conditions I can do better :).

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From the top of Wansfell Pike down the race descent to the kissing gate at the bottom of the steps is I believe 1,000 ft in 0.6 of a mile. Normally it takes me 7 to 8 minutes; yesterday it took me 11. Ascending took me 23 minutes. It is mainly grass with a few muddy patches and the occasional rock. It is said that the full descent - so including the final stretch on tarmac - has been done at 4 minute mile pace. Amazing if true.

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Originally Posted by Mike T

From the top of Wansfell Pike down the race descent to the kissing gate at the bottom of the steps is I believe 1,000 ft in 0.6 of a mile. Normally it takes me 7 to 8 minutes; yesterday it took me 11. Ascending took me 23 minutes. It is mainly grass with a few muddy patches and the occasional rock. It is said that the full descent - so including the final stretch on tarmac - has been done at 4 minute mile pace. Amazing if true.

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You’d need super dry ground for that though. And rock hard knees!

I’ve only gone up that track once I think, on the 5 Lakeland passes, but I’ll definitely look to give that a time attack next time I’m in Ambleside

I can knock out a mile rep on the flat in 6mins, no problem. So you think that it must be fairly straightforward to hit 5mins/mile or less on a downhill fell section...

Until you try it. I think on the Jubilee Plunge downhill race (2.1 miles and about 1500ft descent), i only managed about 6:15/mile average... ok it was mid-winter, there were one or two stiles which slowed us down, and i was around 90secs behind the winner, but even he wasn't down at 5min/mile pace.

It's an unbelievable pace and i'd be more inclined (:D) to think that 4min/mile pace would be more easily achieved on something like the easier parts of the Skiddaw descent, rather than something steeper and a bit more technical like Wansfell...

Club night and a track session.

300mtrs hard, 100mtrs steady. We were told 12 was the minimum. Managed 14. Didn't feel particularly fresh but kept up my recent placing in the group. But have done a lot of strength work last two days so little wonder I didn't feel too spritely.

8 miles.

Now debating whether to stick to my plan of another 5km track effort at the weekend, or to do another sharpener track session, similar to today.

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Originally Posted by Travs

I can knock out a mile rep on the flat in 6mins, no problem. So you think that it must be fairly straightforward to hit 5mins/mile or less on a downhill fell section...

Until you try it. I think on the Jubilee Plunge downhill race (2.1 miles and about 1500ft descent), i only managed about 6:15/mile average... ok it was mid-winter, there were one or two stiles which slowed us down, and i was around 90secs behind the winner, but even he wasn't down at 5min/mile pace.

It's an unbelievable pace and i'd be more inclined (:D) to think that 4min/mile pace would be more easily achieved on something like the easier parts of the Skiddaw descent, rather than something steeper and a bit more technical like Wansfell...

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I did the Midsummer Madness half marathon based at Box Hill several times. The last half mile or so is the perfect angle for fast downhill running, on lovely smooth short grass. One year I was trying to hold off a chap on my shoulder - and only just succeeded - I did that half mile in 2 minutes and 2 seconds. I was going as fast as I could - so almost 4 minute mile pace. At school, like many, I could do 440 yards in 60 seconds or so, but I hated it.

A couple of hours this afternoon completing the Wainwright Northern fells. Great Cockup, Meal Fell and Great Calva from Overwater. 17.5km/900m.
Could have done without the hail storm. 😬

Nice one Pete...! The Northern Fells certainly don't give up easily, i recall a torrid day last winter from Mungrisdale-Keswick getting them completed!

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Originally Posted by Mike T

I did the Midsummer Madness half marathon based at Box Hill several times. The last half mile or so is the perfect angle for fast downhill running, on lovely smooth short grass. One year I was trying to hold off a chap on my shoulder - and only just succeeded - I did that half mile in 2 minutes and 2 seconds. I was going as fast as I could - so almost 4 minute mile pace. At school, like many, I could do 440 yards in 60 seconds or so, but I hated it.

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I think the best potential descent for that kind of speed that i've seen, would be the long final descent at Up The Nab. Long, perfect gradient, non-technical.

You may be aware that the fastest mile run ever recorded was at the Meltham Maniac Mile, with 400 feet of descent (so mean gradient about 1 in 13), although this is on road: https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...e-1251620.html

Track session this morning. The intention had been to do either a 5km or 1 mile race effort. However during the warmup it became quite apparent that it wasn't really a day for pb's.... absolutely chucking it down and a howling and swirling wind.

So backed off a bit, and did 20 x 400metres hard/200mtrs easy. Didn't bother to time the hard efforts, but i certainly wasn't pushing the pace, and apart from several where i had other runners close to me on the track (race mode activated!), they were probably around 6:20-6:30/mile pace.

Still a good 9 miles in awful conditions, when i'd imagine most people were scheduling in a rest day.

20x400 Travis? Big session! I was doing a Tipton-organised (unofficial) xc race at Compton Park, Wolverhampton. Setting off in groups of 6. Set up as a Strava segment. One of many since the summer. Great series. Keeps us in race mode. Today the conditions started off bad and ended up worse, on a hilly route. Fantastic!

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Originally Posted by gazb

20x400 Travis? Big session! I was doing a Tipton-organised (unofficial) xc race at Compton Park, Wolverhampton. Setting off in groups of 6. Set up as a Strava segment. One of many since the summer. Great series. Keeps us in race mode. Today the conditions started off bad and ended up worse, on a hilly route. Fantastic!

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Nice one Gaz.... Godiva's internal XC handicap was due to start next saturday, although i suspect tonight's announcements will probably put that back on the shelf for a bit!

28km/1000m in the Dales. Ribblehead, Whernside, Dent and back over the northern shoulder of Whernside. Bit of a slog up out of Dentdale in to the wind and rain, but finished in reasonable shape. About 85km for the week and very few of them dry.

This weeks scores: 57 miles 10,750ft...

Not sure what the next few weeks are going to bring, with the restrictions in place. The only certainty appears to be the closure of gyms. In which case i expect mileage to rise again, at the expense of strength work.

Well, my first run for 2 months was wet, windy and wild but apart from that uneventful.

A brisk half mile walk at 15min/mile pace to warm up followed by 3 flat miles on the High Peak Trail in 29min 40sec.
Not a lot I know and it felt, and was, slow!

However, the legs felt fine and I'm determined to take things steady this time and slowly build up the distance and speed over the next 2 months and see where we are in Jan 2022!

I treated myself to an hour's soak in a hot Radox bath when I got home.

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Originally Posted by Hank

28km/1000m in the Dales. Ribblehead, Whernside, Dent and back over the northern shoulder of Whernside. Bit of a slog up out of Dentdale in to the wind and rain, but finished in reasonable shape. About 85km for the week and very few of them dry.

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Presumably you came back following the Dales High Way/Craven Way? That track is such a rubble fest coming out of Dent :)

Yep, not a lot of fun. Never been up that way before, only in descent. Goes on forever!

Club night and 8 x 1km with 90secs rest.

Very pleased tonight... After doing the first rep in 3:32, managed to keep all of the rest between 3:24 - 3:28, which I hadn't really expected to maintain for 5, never mind 8...

8.5 miles. Cold, but still and clear, perfect.

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Originally Posted by Travs

Club night and 8 x 1km with 90secs rest.

Very pleased tonight... After doing the first rep in 3:32, managed to keep all of the rest between 3:24 - 3:28, which I hadn't really expected to maintain for 5, never mind 8...

8.5 miles. Cold, but still and clear, perfect.

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What we really want to know, Travs, is did you find and were you wearing your Ron Hill Tracksters tonight?

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Originally Posted by Llani Boy

What we really want to know, Travs, is did you find and were you wearing your Ron Hill Tracksters tonight?

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Of course!

They did have a hole in the knee though, so might have to buy a new pair at some point in the next five years.

Have any been keeping to the rule of 6 in training? And the soon-to-be rule of only one other person with you - does it have to be the same person each time?

We've been sticking to the regulations set out by UKA/EA.

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Originally Posted by Travs

We've been sticking to the regulations set out by UKA/EA.

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So only 6 in each group? With no socialising before/after? Or with a coach/coaches in the recommended ratios? I think a lot of clubs will have found it hard to stick to the rules.

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Originally Posted by Mike T

So only 6 in each group? With no socialising before/after? Or with a coach/coaches in the recommended ratios? I think a lot of clubs will have found it hard to stick to the rules.

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Mike, the latest guidance for "organised activity" i.e coached sessions, was that groups of more than 6 permitted, as long as coaching ratios were maintained, which i think was 1 coach per 12 athletes, but i stand to be corrected on that last detail.

We have been training the past few weeks in a group larger than 6, but keeping to the coaching ratio. Before that, a few of us had been meeting up for an "unorganised activity" i.e a social group session which was not under the name of our club... for that we were sticking to the guidelines which stated no more than 6 for unorganised activities.

I do think a lot of clubs will have found it hard. However again it is all a grey area. We had about 8 in our club session last night, but after a couple of reps it was immaterial whether there had been 8 or 28 really, as we were doing km reps and we were all spread out (i was approx 20secs/km behind the two faster guys, and 10secs/km in front of the next guy).

We are more concerned with the perception of the club. Our session was due to be carried out on a quiet loop around a housing estate, but we didn't want to anger any residents, so we elected to carry out the session within the grounds of the University where our track and clubhouse is situated (ironically probably a worse place to carry out the session!)

However i've just had a text saying that the very latest guidance today has put a stop to all training and events, except for 1-on-1 coaching and training in pairs... so bang goes our sessions for a few weeks (and our internal XC handicap due to start this weekend!)

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Originally Posted by Travs

Mike, the latest guidance for "organised activity" i.e coached sessions, was that groups of more than 6 permitted, as long as coaching ratios were maintained, which i think was 1 coach per 12 athletes, but i stand to be corrected on that last detail.

We have been training the past few weeks in a group larger than 6, but keeping to the coaching ratio. Before that, a few of us had been meeting up for an "unorganised activity" i.e a social group session which was not under the name of our club... for that we were sticking to the guidelines which stated no more than 6 for unorganised activities.

I do think a lot of clubs will have found it hard. However again it is all a grey area. We had about 8 in our club session last night, but after a couple of reps it was immaterial whether there had been 8 or 28 really, as we were doing km reps and we were all spread out (i was approx 20secs/km behind the two faster guys, and 10secs/km in front of the next guy).

We are more concerned with the perception of the club. Our session was due to be carried out on a quiet loop around a housing estate, but we didn't want to anger any residents, so we elected to carry out the session within the grounds of the University where our track and clubhouse is situated (ironically probably a worse place to carry out the session!)

However i've just had a text saying that the very latest guidance today has put a stop to all training and events, except for 1-on-1 coaching and training in pairs... so bang goes our sessions for a few weeks (and our internal XC handicap due to start this weekend!)

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Thanks - interesting. I am not sure how the presence of a coach somehow made numbers over 6 "safe". Our local club was supposedly doing informal runs - no coach present most of the time - in groups of 6, but photos showed this was not always adhered to. Club vest wearing was strongly discouraged! All irrelevant now, as it is training in pairs only. From the answer to a question on the BBC website, the other person you run with can differ each run if desired. I will continue to run on my own. New cases in the South Lakeland area have jumped up to 69 today.

We've got a Virtual 5km handicap within the club, and some in my group are planning to go out in pairs. However i'm planning to train alone and just do the weekly session which our coach sends to the group.

Ran the local parkrun course today... 18:37... much improved on a fortnight ago, and only 3 seconds off a pb.

Still not where i want to be, but it's moving in the right direction, and on a slow course with no other runners to chase down, i'm fairly happy.

Perhaps most pleasing aspect was that it was ran at an even pace throughout... so i knew i was on for under 19mins at halfway, and that i had the reserves left in the legs to maintain pace.

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Originally Posted by Travs

Ran the local parkrun course today... 18:37... much improved on a fortnight ago, and only 3 seconds off a pb.

Still not where i want to be, but it's moving in the right direction, and on a slow course with no other runners to chase down, i'm fairly happy.

Perhaps most pleasing aspect was that it was ran at an even pace throughout... so i knew i was on for under 19mins at halfway, and that i had the reserves left in the legs to maintain pace.

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I never cracked 20 minutes for 5 km - but twice I went just under 40 minutes for 10 km - weird.

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Originally Posted by Mike T

I never cracked 20 minutes for 5 km - but twice I went just under 40 minutes for 10 km - weird.

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Yes!

My 10km times (on the very rare occasions i've done them), are fairly consistent. Perhaps because you know you need to run them sensibly, so you run a consistent pace.

I think with 5km it's short enough that you feel you need to hike the pace up from the start, and that can have repercussions for your performance!

Well so much for being determined to take it easy on my comeback! In the last week from the 1st Nov I've done 3 x 3 miles steady runs every other day on the flat High Peak trail followed by a 45 mile bike ride on Friday. Yesterday was a rest day apart from 3 hrs hedge/bush cutting.

This morning just before 11am I attended the Remembrance Service at the village war memorial where there was a turnout of about 50 residents. We, unexpectedly, even sang a hymn. The Lay Preacher started singing and everyone joined her. Usually at this service I am wearing running gear as the Leg It Round The Lathkill Fell Race sets off at 11.30 a few hundred yards away.

During the service, as well as remembering the fallen I was also remembering last years race so as soon as the service had finished I thought "bugger it" someone has to run it this year so off I went home, got changed, donned my Mudclaws and jogged down to the Lathkil Hotel for the start.

On the count of 3 2 1 I trotted off at a gentle pace down the slippery leaf strewn hill into the dale. A mild but very misty morning with no breeze which made almost perfect running conditions to wear just a Lifa base layer and vest. The run up the dale was slippery on the polished wet limestone sections but the river was not flooding the path so feet were dry. I had planned, in order not to overdo it, to walk the uphill's but apart from the Cales Dale steps ran the lot, albeit slowly. The fields up to Calling Low, over to Moor Lane and then down to Meadow Place were fantastic to run on with just the right amount of give for the Mudlcaw studs.
That all changed on entering Meadow Place farmyard where the usual bath of cowshit awaited. A slippery descent through the woods back into the dale and alongside the river to Conksbury Bridge followed by the leg sapping drag back up to the Lathkill Hotel and the finish where I was warmly greeted by no one!

7.1 miles and 871 feet in a very steady 1hr 14min. 16 minutes slower than my PB. I felt like I could have gone much quicker but managed to hold myself back. Legs a bit tired now and hopefully no injury aggravation so I can get back on the 3 miles on Tuesday.

Plenty of people about, mainly in twos and threes but 4 groups of 6-8 who obviously didn't live in the same house!

Anyway a good run out and over the moon to be 1st O/A, 1st MV60 and 1st Local:):):)