post brexit

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Originally Posted by Stolly

Except nobody but nobody believed the ludicrous £4,300 per household figure or took it seriously. Other than brexiteers rightly ridiculing it of course so, as propaganda, it mis-fired spectacularly and was a huge mistake. The lie about the £350 million a week though was truly believed by brexiteers and swallowed hook line and sinker. Even though the reality is that any saving of EU contributions is going to be dwarfed by the lost taxation revenue from our reduced GDP expectations

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Can't you see there's a contradiction here. Remain BS is OK because everyone knew it was BS but everyone was sucked in by Leave BS is the essence of what you are saying.

Anyone studying politics will know that figures are presented to make a case. The £4300 figure was discredited, but nowhere near as much as the £350m and the strange thing is that the £350M is plucked straight from the ONS figures. It is fact. The £4300 was a guess and a guess using an economic model that was weighted in favour of Remain.

I'll tell you what I saw in the campaign that I think was a lie, or gross incompetence.

Cameron's claim that he would stay on if we voted to Leave.
Cameron's claim that he would invoke article 50 immediately if we voted Leave.
Several Remain campaigners suggesting our exports, and most often citing the car makers, would have to pay duty on their exports of cars to the EU if we left.

These were not opinions, the first two were entirely within Cameron's capabilities and the 3rd was either lies, or incompetent people talking about an issue they new little or nothing about.

Excellent points WP. You could also add Osborne's "punishment" budget that he was going to have to bring in immediately after we had voted to leave.

Stolly, I could also mention the 3 to 4 million jobs that would be lost if we left the EU lie that Nick Clegg and others have been peddling for the last few years.

The fact is that the Remain campaign knew that many British people were sceptical about the EU. They had no positive case to make for staying in so they focused on scaring people into doing so and had scant regard for whether what they were saying was true or not. So it's a bit rich to complain that people only voted out because they were lied to by "Leave". As I said the £350 million a week claim was misleading but at least it did have some basis in fact. It was addressed by the broadcasters ad nauseum on the news and in the debates.

What I believed was that there would be £350 million a week that the UK could spend how it wished, that much was true, was it not. I know we got some of that back one way or another but the EU dictated pretty much how that should be spent.

Almost everything else financial seems to be pure speculation one way or another.

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Originally Posted by Muddy Retriever

As I said the £350 million a week claim was misleading...

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Mmmh. I suppose one interpretation of "misleading" could be cynical, blatant, immoral and outrageous lie.

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Originally Posted by bigfella

What I believed was that there would be £350 million a week that the UK could spend how it wished, that much was true, was it not. I know we got some of that back one way or another but the EU dictated pretty much how that should be spent.

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Not quite. The £350 million is the gross contribution the UK makes if it is expressed per week. However, to knock off that is our rebate (obtained by Margaret Thatcher in the 1980's) and amounts we get back from the EU in terms of grants and agricultural subsidies. It's probably fair to say that our net contribution is around half of the gross figure.

The defence that Vote Leave made for using the Gross Figure is:

1) The rebate could be subject to change. We got it in the first place because the UK receives far less than other countries like France in agricultural subsidies. But Tony Blair negotiated some of it away in 2005.

2) As you say we have no control over the amount we get back from the EU in grants and subsidies. They decide how it is spent.

3) If somebody asked you your gross salary you would probably state the gross figure rather than the net amount after tax and national insurance.

I think using the £350 million figure was misleading but as I have said in other posts it was roundly criticised during the campaign and even if you said instead that we make a net contribution of about £175 million per week it is still a large amount of money.

My point was not the amount per-se but that we could choose how to spend it.

We haven't even triggered clause 50 yet. No one has a clue what might or might not happen when we do, never mind if and when we do leave the EU. However I'm detecting a lot of feel good factor in the country at the moment

Enjoy, freedom.

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focused on scaring people

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Both sides played that card

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that much was true, was it not

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No.

Not getting anymore for the NHS either from the last statement I've seen

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3) If somebody asked you your gross salary you would probably state the gross figure rather than the net amount after tax and national insurance.

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Only really comparable if you're trying to convince someone it's that take home pay