Today's Training

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Originally Posted by anthonykay

Any excuse is good enough for avoiding a reps session. It's too cold and foggy. I think I will go up Beacon Hill to see if I can get above the fog.

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No excuses today. Six hill reps in the Outwoods. I generally consider 2:40 to be quite a fast time for these reps, but today I did the last two in 2:40 and the first four were all faster than that.

I have no explanation for this speed in my first reps session since a long lay-off with injury. I haven't eaten any beetroot for several weeks, and I don't even know what EPO is. Maybe there has been a mysterious long-distance exchange of fitness, whereby I have acquired Mr B's normal fitness, and he has acquired my normal unfitness.

I also did hill reps today, although unfortunately was a treadmill session.

3 x 5 minute reps
2 x 6 minute reps
1 x 7 minute rep

All with 5 minutes flat running recovery.

6 miles in total.

Some more leg strength work tonight in the gym, then it will be all easy miles until sunday.

Tonight's RATRun was planned to be from The Red Lion in Litton but yesterday I found out that it was closed for a week due to the owners being on holiday. We switched to the Crispin at Great Longstone and at 6.30 pm this evening we arrived there to find it in darkness and closed.

Fortunately, we could see that the lights were on at the White Lion, 100yds down the road, so six of us set off through the churchyard and across the fields leading up to Longstone Edge. A traverse below the edge to Deep Rake, up to Bleaklow and then down into Coombs Dale to the path junction at Black Harry Gate. Back up to Longstone Edge and over Longstone Moor via Watersaw Rake from where we watched a fantastic dark orange moon rise above the horizon.
A final mile down Leys Lane took us back via Dale Farm to Great Longstone where I noticed that the lights were on in Baron Roy Hattersley's house, sometime starter of the GL Fell Race, and fortunately still on at The White Lion.

A fantastic run, on mainly frosty grass, of 7 miles, 1,071 feet in 1hr 8min. Once in the pub cheesy chips were washed down, around a roaring fire, by Unicorn 4.2% from Robinsons.

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Originally Posted by anthonykay

Maybe there has been a mysterious long-distance exchange of fitness, whereby I have acquired Mr B's normal fitness, and he has acquired my normal unfitness.

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Maybe Darren fisheries has passed it on to you. I was fairly sure it originally transferred to him

76 miles this week. Total was boosted well over the 70 mark thanks to a bit of a debacle at the Mercia Hill Trial today.

Next week... hope to be recovered enough for a midweek club session, then next saturday the Midlands XC champs at Mansfield.

Longest run for several months: up Beacon Hill, then a loop of Broombriggs, going up via "Cardiac Hill" https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/2086732 ; this pair of climbs is the nearest I will get to simulating Yearlet and Haddon Hill on the Stretton Hills race. Also went up Windmill Hill on the way home; I suppose this could be my version of the nasty little climb out of the last checkpoint at Stretton Hills. The footpath over the fields from Woodhouse Eaves back home has dried out nicely; the mud is rather churned up, but quite firm.

Note to self: wear thicker gloves when it is this cold.

Club night.

5 x 1km, rest period starting at 2mins, then dropping by 20secs each time.

I was still fatigued from the weekend so decided to just take the first one well within myself, and go from there.

3:47
3:42
3:40
3:40

So a good 20secs/rep down on my previous km session, although i was still pleased with those times in the circumstances. Couldn't manage a 5th at "pace" so jogged it in 3:58

8 miles for the session on top of 5 easy miles AM.

A solid day.

Steady as she goes until saturday now.

This evenings RATRun saw six of us depart from The Railway, Buxton. Tarmac at first to get us out of town and then a steep, slippery section up through Light Wood and past Cuckoo Tors to the edge of the moor. A right turn took us over Flint Clough and along Black Edge to the TP. We then retraced our steps to Flint Clough and continued around the edge, above Moss House Farm and on to Round the Bend where we dropped down onto the Midshires Way.
After 4 miles of boggy and peaty ground the rough track and then a mile of tarmac back into town was most welcome.

Back at The Railway, cheesy chips were washed down with a very good Two Hoots 4.2% from the Joseph Holt Brewery which was on offer at £2 a pint!

A total of 9 miles, 1,151 feet in 1 hr 29 mins. A little tougher underfoot than I would have liked with Tarren Hendre at Saturday noon but a great evening all the same.

As I set off on today's run, I was musing over the fact that getting old means never again running either of my classic Beacon Hill routes in under an hour. Today's effort on the route via Buck Hill in 63m20s in fairly ideal conditions (mud dried up, no nettles yet, not too cold or windy) was quite satisfying.

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Originally Posted by anthonykay

As I set off on today's run, I was musing over the fact that getting old means never again running either of my classic Beacon Hill routes in under an hour. Today's effort on the route via Buck Hill in 63m20s in fairly ideal conditions (mud dried up, no nettles yet, not too cold or windy) was quite satisfying.

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Maybe the aim is doing it in fewer minutes than you are years old. I don't know how old you are, or whether that works??

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Originally Posted by noel

Maybe the aim is doing it in fewer minutes than you are years old. I don't know how old you are, or whether that works??

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To 1 decimal place, I am 63.6 years old, so doing the run in 63.3 minutes counts as a success!

65 miles this week.

Next week i'm hoping to do a midweek club session, then the mighty Long Mynd Valleys next sunday.

Hoping for a pb at LMV, i've got the miles in the legs, but turning up fresh on the start line is of more importance than knocking out big mileage this week.

Also a slight nagging feeling in my head that i might suffer over the final torrid hour at LMV... having concentrated on XC and road miles the past few months, my climbing felt flat (pardon the pun) at Callow in December, and the last hour at LMV can see you throwing minutes away if you're not fully ready for it.

Also taking a clubmate to LMV... he's done a few races... Lee Mill Relay, Cardington Cracker, Cardingmill Canter... but this will be a big step up in terms of difficulty.

Club night last night... a rare single-session day for me yesterday, having no time to run AM as i had to go to the office (the cheek of it!)

12 x 450mtr-ish loops on gravel/pavement, with 1 minute rest periods. A tough session, dropping the rest periods down to a minute really makes a difference from 90secs/2mins, and pacing is key.

Managed to keep all reps within 3 seconds of each other, which considering i was fairly isolated within the group, wasn't too bad. Although still don't feel i'm running at full flying pace at the moment.

8.5 miles in total. Tempted to sneak in another hard session on thursday, but in order to preserve the legs before sunday's race, i might opt for doing it on the treadmill.

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Originally Posted by Travs

Club night last night... a rare single-session day for me yesterday

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Gee. That's why I was never a contender - only running once a day. But probably too late now to change my ways.

Although one time I ran leg two (8.5 miles?) of the Calderdale Relay, flat out as you do in a relay, and then one of the leg five runners failed to show. Being the club captain I did the honourable thing but told my younger, very fast, new partner that I had already done a leg so start off easy.

Of course all hyped up he set off like a rocket and when after half a mile I eventually caught him up and remonstrated he said "well I wanted us to get to the stile before the other teams".

Maybe we did but the rest of the leg (7.5 miles?) was damn hard going :)

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Originally Posted by Graham Breeze

Gee. That's why I was never a contender - only running once a day. But probably too late now to change my ways.

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Once a day? That's still too much.

Something I remember reading in the Fellrunner magazine a long time ago was a piece by Del Davies, who was winning the M40 category in every race he ran in Wales in the late 1980's and early 90's. He said that because of his working patterns, he only found it convenient to train three times a week; but that he reckoned doing three quality sessions each week was better for his performance than when he had been training more frequently. When I was at my best, I was typically doing four sessions a week, but trying to make sure that they were all good quality sessions.

I was talking mileage/sessions with a vet70 clubmate this week, who was around a 2:15 marathon runner. His opinion is that high mileage is only worth it if you are consistent... absolutely no point in doing 85 miles one week, then 30 the next.

His best period of running came after 2 solid years of 100 mile weeks (this was when Cov Godiva was a real force on the national scene and had a high number of runners doing this).

I'm hoping that my consistent 70 mile weeks are going to start to pay off come the longer summer races, and hopefully i'm still knocking off pb's. Whether its my body still adjusting to higher mileage, i don't particularly feel in pb form at the moment.

We'll see on sunday at Long Mynd Valleys...!

I'm impressed you've kept it up. 70 m/w is a lot. But you're right, you need consistency.

I'm intrigued to see how much difference it'll make. I'm sure you'll see the benefits, it's just a question of how much. Good luck at Long Mynd.

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Originally Posted by anthonykay

Once a day? That's still too much.

Something I remember reading in the Fellrunner magazine a long time ago was a piece by Del Davies, who was winning the M40 category in every race he ran in Wales in the late 1980's and early 90's. He said that because of his working patterns, he only found it convenient to train three times a week; but that he reckoned doing three quality sessions each week was better for his performance than when he had been training more frequently. When I was at my best, I was typically doing four sessions a week, but trying to make sure that they were all good quality sessions.

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When I switched to running, at 28, I quickly found that if I exceeded a certain average mileage I got injured. The magic figure was 21 miles a week. I didn't understand it at the time, and no one in the club or any physios had a clue, but with the benefit of hindsight (and major surgery) I now know it was because I was born with a serious biomechanical problem.

What I found then, and continued through my traverse from road running to fell, via x country and track, was that three sessions a week, of 6-8 miles, worked for me. The sessions were fierce, but then I didn't run again for at least 48 hours. As this meant I didn't get a long run, I used to run Monday-Wednesday-Friday and then strap my heart rate monitor watch onto my bike bars and cycle outside for 2 hours at the weekend at 130bpm, plus or minus 2bpm (this took a lot of concentration.)

Whilst I am a great defender of 'each to their own' and 'what works for one person won't necessarily work for someone else', whenever I've talked to athletes who run big mileages, and run every day, about tapering they've never been able to give me a coherent answer as to how they manage to do it when they are racing once a week in their main season.

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Originally Posted by Marco

When I switched to running, at 28, I quickly found that if I exceeded a certain average mileage I got injured. The magic figure was 21 miles a week. I didn't understand it at the time, and no one in the club or any physios had a clue, but with the benefit of hindsight (and major surgery) I now know it was because I was born with a serious biomechanical problem.

What I found then, and continued through my traverse from road running to fell, via x country and track, was that three sessions a week, of 6-8 miles, worked for me. The sessions were fierce, but then I didn't run again for at least 48 hours. As this meant I didn't get a long run, I used to run Monday-Wednesday-Friday and then strap my heart rate monitor watch onto my bike bars and cycle outside for 2 hours at the weekend at 130bpm, plus or minus 2bpm (this took a lot of concentration.)

Whilst I am a great defender of 'each to their own' and 'what works for one person won't necessarily work for someone else', whenever I've talked to athletes who run big mileages, and run every day, about tapering they've never been able to give me a coherent answer as to how they manage to do it when they are racing once a week in their main season.

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My ex-coach was of the opinion (and i tend to agree), that its quite fine to run every day, even when racing weekly. But the trouble comes when you try to pack in the hard work in midweek as well.

When i'm racing weekly i can do a maximum of one good session in a week, and sometimes i have to give that up and just run easy.

Of course my coach would say (and i also tend to agree on this!!) that you won't get your best performance if you're racing weekly, as you can't commit to the necessary quality training.

I think i mentioned this earlier in this thread, or on another thread... but i discussed this with a good level steeplechaser and fellracer, who is now a coach.... he was of the opinion that when you've got a load of races coming up and you want to maximise performance, all you can plan to do is peak for the first one, and you just have to take it from there.

I am committed to improving... but am i so committed that i'll sacrifice my favourite races and just race six times a year....? not a chance. I guess if you're at the sharp end of the championships that's the sacrifice you've got to make.

For me, there's a lot of fitting training around life. If I were to plan to run three times a week and then something were to get in the way of one of the those sessions, I'd be playing catch-up.

My approach when I'm training well is to try to get out every day. Some of these are little dog-walk runs, and some are 3 mile recovery runs the day after a race. Given that life typically does get in the way, I probably average 5 runs a week, or sessions (if I'm doing any biking).

I find this takes the pressure off, and there's flex in the system. So when I'm feeling well, I can add in a hard session. But when I'm feeling tired, I can do a little easy run, or skip it altogether without feeling I'm slipping behind my training schedule.

Last bit of brisk running before the Valleys on sunday.

6 x 2mins hard/1 min easy.

Although this was more about getting the legs turning over nicely, rather than putting in real efforts. Only really reached usual effort pace on the last couple.

4 miles.

Depression doesn't help either. If I get off the sofa sometimes that's a big win.

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The body is very good at adapting to consistent physical activity, but cannot always react quickly enough to protect itself from a sudden influx of free radicals produced by infrequent high intensity exercise. Exercising several times a week at a moderate, comfortable intensity from which you can recover easily is the best way to increase your body's natural antioxidant defences and reduce oxidative stress. However if you are a weekend warrior who does little or no exercise during the week but engages in intense exercise at the weekend, you may be doing more harm than good

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Quite a relevant section from Oxygen Advantage there. Suggestion is that tissue damage can occur if you don't have that solid base that people talk about. I'm the weekend warrior!

Another solid total of 71 miles this week. Encouraged by my performance (if not the result!) today at Long Mynd Valleys, so i'm happy training is taking me in the right direction.

No race next weekend, so perhaps a local parkrun.

After racing in Shropshire on sunday, i was rather dismayed to see that our training session last night was.... hill reps!

Half an hour of uphill reps between lamposts up a road which was probably about 8-9% gradient at worst. It would take me about 10mins to shuttle all the way up to the top of the hill... so i took the first set very steadily, sped up on the second set, and was chasing to lap someone on the third and final set, so hung on at a decent speed.

Didn't overly push too hard as not fully recovered from sunday, but an 8.5 mile total session, on top of 5.5 miles in the morning, was a good day.

I saw that a friend did a brutal looking session of 4 x 10 minute reps yesterday, and fancy giving that a go myself, perhaps tomorrow if i feel good. Then hopefully squeeze in a parkrun on saturday morning, which i doubt will be anywhere near a pb, but would round off a good week of work.

Had a rush of blood to the head in the last few days and have entered two track races in the 2nd half of the year, at vastly opposite ends of the scale.... a 1500mtrs race in August, and a 25hr race in October.

25hr! That's quite an undertaking. Which one?

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Originally Posted by noel

25hr! That's quite an undertaking. Which one?

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https://www.track100.net/

One of the big attractions for me is having family living close by, so may get a bit of moral support (and possibly somewhere to crash if things go wrong!)

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Originally Posted by Travs

https://www.track100.net/

One of the big attractions for me is having family living close by, so may get a bit of moral support (and possibly somewhere to crash if things go wrong!)

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Did you miss the bit about no supporters Travs?

Not my cup of tea but good luck to you. Sounds like it is as much about mental endurance as it is fitness.

And all for less than £1 a mile! ;)

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Originally Posted by Llani Boy

Did you miss the bit about no supporters Travs?

Not my cup of tea but good luck to you. Sounds like it is as much about mental endurance as it is fitness.

And all for less than £1 a mile! ;)

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I did see that... my assumption is that it was written for the 2020 edition, and hasn't been updated for 2022. Although i could be wrong.

4 x 10 minute efforts this morning, with 3 minute rests between.

I didn't go flat out, nor did i monitor my pace.... instead concentrating on trying to be relaxed throughout. But at an estimate i'd say the reps were somewhere either side of 20min/5km pace.

8 miles in total.

Hoping to have a bash at a local parkrun on saturday, not a pb attempt, hopefully just keep it somewhere in the low 19's

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Originally Posted by Travs

4 x 10 minute efforts this morning, with 3 minute rests between.

I didn't go flat out, nor did i monitor my pace.... instead concentrating on trying to be relaxed throughout. But at an estimate i'd say the reps were somewhere either side of 20min/5km pace.

8 miles in total.

Hoping to have a bash at a local parkrun on saturday, not a pb attempt, hopefully just keep it somewhere in the low 19's

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I'm hoping to find a sub 20 parkrun at some point in the near future, my chest crap has held me back dramatically.

Tonight's RATRun was a depleted affair with only 3 of us setting off on a very cold and windy evening from the Waterloo at Biggin.
Across fields to the A515 and up to Uppermoor Farm. Down to Cardlemere Lane and onto the High Peak Trail. Up to the TP at Aleck Low and down to the Tissington Trail where after a short run along it we returned through fields to the Waterloo.
A gentle 7 miles and 661 feet in 1hr 7 mins.

Some of the best chips we have had on a Thursday night were washed down with a great pint of Fullers London Pride 4.1%.

Had a run round the local parkrun this morning. Very windy.

Ran fairly steadily throughout, 19:32..... I ran the first small lap a good 25-30 seconds slower than i have managed it in the past, although this no doubt helped on the two large laps, which i was able to run smoothly within 10 seconds of each other.

Well off my pb, but wasn't expecting much different, being my 3rd tougher session since tuesday evening.

8 miles.

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Originally Posted by mr brightside

I'm hoping to find a sub 20 parkrun at some point in the near future, my chest crap has held me back dramatically.

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I initially read that as chest strap. My mind was boggling.

Beacon Hill, Broombriggs and Windmill Hill. Took a different route through Beacon Hill country park today: rather than the direct route, I went along a gently ascending track and then turned off up a trod that goes steeply to the summit; but my decision to cut a corner resulted in me getting some practice at moving over rocks concealed under dead bracken.

Felt very lacking in energy all the way from home to top of Beacon Hill (but this may have had something to do with the gale that nearly slowed me to walking on the bridleway up to the Outwoods), and couldn’t start running where the gradient eased off after the steepest section. But I felt much better for the rest of the run. 76 minutes altogether; I would really like to get out for a run of around 2 hours some time soon.

9 very easy miles today. Interspersed with spectating at my nephew's football match (in fact had the lovely moment of witnessing him score his first ever goal.... he'll be dining out on that for a while)

69.5 miles for the week. Brings another 10 week section to an end, with an average of 70.5 miles per week.

A solid start to the year.

Next week will get the club session in on tuesday. Then i expect it will be easy runs all the way to the weekend, with the final league XC on saturday. Three weekends of racing on the bounce now... XC 10km, XC 12km, Fells 6 miles.

3 x 1 mile reps, 2mins rest.

5:46
5:48
5:51 (although had to negotiate my way round a couple of cars on this one)

Good session, sub 5:50 is good for me.

8 miles in total. Solid start to the week with 29 miles already.

Good going. On the track or road? Should give you confidence for Leamington.

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Originally Posted by gazb

Good going. On the track or road? Should give you confidence for Leamington.

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That was on road in the University Of Warwick complex.

Looking forward to Leamington... partly due to being joint first in our club XC handicap league, although to hold on for the overall win i'm going to have to beat one of the slower guys by 6mins on saturday.... 4mins is achievable, but i think 6mins is too far.

Illness and work reduced numbers to 4 for tonight's RATRun from the refurbished Robin Hood, situate just outside Baslow. A cold clear evening under a day old, hazy and waning Snow Moon saw us cross the A619, down to the river and up along Dobb Edge. Into the Chatsworth Estate and through pinewoods to the Huntingtower. Available to hire at £600 per night and fully booked until 10/2/2023!

Through more woods and then lovely moorland running up to Hob Hurst's House. Two miles of rough track back down to the A619 and a stretch of tarmac back to the pub.
Just over 7 miles, 661 feet in 1hr 5 min.

A warm fire but too late for chips so Pipers Crisps were washed down with a very poorly travelled Cumberland Ale 4% from Jennings and a much better Old Empire Ale 5.7% from Marstons.