New political party?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stolly

Haha, If there is a second referendum offering the choice to remain, remain would win comfortably today just on the back of the number of brexit voters that are now dead and the fact that the young pro-remain voters would massively mobilise this time round.

---

I don't buy this theory that is regularly trotted out by Remainers at all. It's true that statistically, the older somebody is the more likely it was that they voted to Leave. The same is true of voting Conservative and has been for as long as I can remember. So by that logic, support for the Tories should have crumbled over time as their supporters died off. So how come it hasn't?

Surprisingly it never seems to occur to supporters of the above theory that as people get older their views change - I'd call it the acquisition of wisdom. Young people are idealistic, gradually they realise that socialism doesn't work and that the EU is not the force for good they thought it was. So over time, sure some people will die but they will be replaced in the age group they have vacated by people who have become more eurosceptic, just as some will be more likely to vote Conservative than they were before.

As for in ten years time the likelihood that there will be a bunch of young europhiles coming to dominate and itching to get us back in, that's for the birds. I see zero prospect of that. Once we're out we will be out. It's just getting to the stage of being out that is the problem at the moment.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stolly

Haha, I massively disagree Witton.

I just wrote a ton of stuff but, to be honest, it won't make much difference to the hard core leavers on here so I've saved you the effort of reading it all and have deleted it :).

I'll just leave this with you though: If there is a second referendum offering the choice to remain, remain would win comfortably today just on the back of the number of brexit voters that are now dead and the fact that the young pro-remain voters would massively mobilise this time round. That's completely ignoring the lies, the bullshit figures about the NHS on the bus, the bullshit about Turkey, the inappropriate funding, the fact that 'project fear' is largely proving itself right, that we didn't win the world wars on our own and that Brexit won't in any way curtail immigration (we'll just get different immigrants from elsewhere in the world).

And even if Brexit goes through, by the time it has and the dust has settled (say in ten years time) the younger pro-Europeans will be in the ascendence and we'll end up rejoining anyway

---

Well said Stolly. I think that just sums it up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Muddy Retriever

I don't buy this theory that is regularly trotted out by Remainers at all. It's true that statistically, the older somebody is the more likely it was that they voted to Leave. The same is true of voting Conservative and has been for as long as I can remember. So by that logic, support for the Tories should have crumbled over time as their supporters died off. So how come it hasn't?

Surprisingly it never seems to occur to supporters of the above theory that as people get older their views change - I'd call it the acquisition of wisdom. Young people are idealistic, gradually they realise that socialism doesn't work and that the EU is not the force for good they thought it was. So over time, sure some people will die but they will be replaced in the age group they have vacated by people who have become more eurosceptic, just as some will be more likely to vote Conservative than they were before.

As for in ten years time the likelihood that there will be a bunch of young europhiles coming to dominate and itching to get us back in, that's for the birds. I see zero prospect of that. Once we're out we will be out. It's just getting to the stage of being out that is the problem at the moment.

---

Well I’m 62 and I definitely not voting for a) Brexit or b) the conservatives. Anyway if you believe that to be true, you’ve nothing to fear from another referendum ;)

Why would you have a second referendum when we had a majority vote ro leave????

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stagger

Why would you have a second referendum when we had a majority vote ro leave????

---

It's because they know best Stagger. Pure arrogance.

I voted remain first time around and if there was another vote I would vote leave

Because when the direction of such an important political and societal shaping decision, is supported (admittedly only by a small, extreme fraction of all of those voting Leave) but wholeheartedly by fascists the likes of Tommy Robinson, and when a Key supporter of the opposing view is murdered in the street in her own constituency, its only prudent and just to give people a final say.

An analogy might also be found in medicine, where clinicians, in offering treatment must ensure they gain fully informed consent. That consent is not absolute and can be withdrawn or varied at any time, particularly when new information. or circumstances arise. The world of finance often has something similar - that is, cooling off periods to allow a reappraisal of an important decision. So that people aren't ripped-off and 'taken-for-aride' by lies and spin.

It's interesting to detect the panic in the voices of those ardently supporting Leave, that they might suddenly lose the votes of a now much better informed voting population. After all, if the arguments are so sound and well made, what's to be scared of? Or is it that Democracy is good, but, hey we don't want too much of a good thing!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stagger

Why would you have a second referendum when we had a majority vote ro leave????

---

Because referendums are really stupid things to base such profound decisions on and can only give the opinion of those involved on the day it happens. One referendum today could kick out an entirely different result tomorrow. That said the only way a referendum result can be double checked (and hopefully over turned) is to have another.

Hitler effectively used a referendum to abolish parliamentary democracy in Germany prior to WW2. Why? Because it was easier that way to stir up a populist vote for something completely bonkers

You have a fair point Stolly.

However

It was a simple question to remain or leave the eu and the majority on that day voted to leave.

In a democracy majority rules.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stagger

...In a democracy majority rules.

---

In a democracy bullsh!tters like Boris Johnson, David Davis and Michael Gove should never have been allowed to brainwash the electorate with their crass ideas.