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Maybe - but I prefer races to time trials for many reasons. I also like running in the high fells.Quote:
Originally Posted by Witton Park
But the point I was making is that some races are so overcrowded that it is possible to play follow-my-leader around much of the course - which could be a bit of a time-bomb safety-wise. Running a Welsh race is like a breath of fresh air - just like running in the 80s used to be. Love it - well worth the travel, and great company too!
OK.. that's great but these races won't last unless people turn up... do you not understand that? Eryri organise a few races to make money for the club and two of them make nothing.. I know there was talk about the feasibility of the Peris..Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudolph Hooker
Rhinogs, poor fields amongst other issues, race lost..
You may like it, but when a pub agrees to host a race they want runners to turn up.. not 15 blokes, 3 old women and 2 dogs..
Got to agree with Math on weird immigrants.. the most insular people in Llanberis are a good chunk of the climbing immigrants..
Agree re follow my leader and the time bomb comment.. but you see it on here.. races seem to offer a safer option than solo running.. which is just a scary attitude...
You make a good point about Rhinogs but as you say, there were other issues. But I don't agree that races won't last if people don't turn up. In the mid-late nineties, race numbers at South Wales races really nose-dived. Absolute classics like Pen Y Fan struggled to get into double figures! But gradually, numbers picked up again and now there is a real problem of overcrowding at some races, Sugar Loaf Winter race being a typical example.
Why did this happen? Who knows for sure but my observation is that the original tranch of 'Running Boom' early 80's competitors faded away a bit leading to a fallow period before the boom in 'adventure racing' started feeding more new blood back into the sport. Which really comes back to Grahams original statement...people who want to race in the great outdoors will discover fell running for themselves without the need for media intrusion.
Oh, and I really don't see why anyone would wring their hands if a race is 'lost'. It can always be restarted again later if interest re-ignites. I bet a pound to a bucket of warm spit that the Rhinog race will eventually be resurrected.
Numbers are important. Many races are dependent on at least breaking even and are often done to raise money for a cause and so if running at a loss, it's not sustainable beyond 2 or 3 years.
I do know where you are coming from Rudolph - I haven't go the history in this sport that most have, but I do enjoy just going out and running in the hills on my own.
But when I'm in a race, I like the crack, I do enjoy a bit of a buzz that you get from being in a big field such as the PPP or Anniversary Waltz and Dave Woodhead's Auld Lang Syne was great fun.
Orienteering races are not a time trials! They are races! Obviously you've never done one. You just can't follow a marked course/the person in front.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudolph HookerMaybe - but I prefer races to time trials for many reasons. I also like running in the high fells.Quote:
Originally Posted by Witton Park
True, you don't tend to run as flat out as you do in a fell race, but the extra mental discipline required to navigate and run as fast as you can mitigates this fact.
And you've obviously never done an Orienteering event on the fells. One of my recent races was on the fells above Kilnsey. Events like this could quite easily claim to be more closely allied to the "original fell running" than most fell races these days, since the vast majority of races now follow paths/known routes - orienteering races cover the whole fell...
WP, have been an RO? I have and still help out at a couple. You don't need a big income if you pare everything to a minimum. You adjust your cloth to suit the event. Raising money for a cause is a side issue that should not determine whether a race has sustainability or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Witton Park
Loughrigg-Silverhowe - £3 to enter, tea and soup at the end, a couple of bits of tape stuck in the ground to mark the finish and about 50 people ran. One of the best races I've done. Results still aren't out, but not to worry. (If only they'd had dibbers...)Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheeze
Blencathra.. £1.50. superb.Quote:
Originally Posted by L.F.F.
UTMB £100 superb.
Boston Marathon £150 Superb.
Entry price means nothing as long as you enjoy the race, but I can honestly say that the UTMB and the marathon left you feeling like you'd ran a well organised, value for money race..
Best race I ever did was Pen Cerrig Calch.. 6 hrs of driving for 12 minutes run up a wet field and back.. sure beats the Ben, Snowdon, Scafell and all the rest..
You pays yer money and takes yer choice. Personally would never spend anything like £100 for a race...just can't see the point. It's not that important!
When a race is called off due to adverse weather its tough as I'm sure many more people found at W1000M or Carneddau this year. Always got the option of running the route unofficially.
I can't see how you can say that without experiencing it? You are missing out in some incredible events.. 3 peaks yacht race, UTMB, Boston.. 3 of the best experiences I've had.. I'd rather pay £100, £1/mile for a full UTMB than £5 for a shortened Peris or such like at 30p/mile...Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheeze
If a race is called off for sufficient reasons, Carneddau falls into that, fine.. if its called off for mild rain.. I'd be pissed.. People did the 3000ers/paddy Buckley challenges that same time..
Why should runners who enjoy the challenge of navigating quickly in a race and being out in less than perfect weather because the RO is worried about runners who can't navigate.. I don't buy the marshalls excuse.. even the FRA recommend tents.. I've marshalled in bad weather, people do it all night in the HPM..
Oh, I have experienced it. 3 peaks race is not a race, its a full on one week experience.
And its what? Hundreds now..Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheeze
But you leave feeling you get your monies worth..
really feel I'm missing out this year..
I have done orienteering events and in the fells too, and enjoyed them - but we were always started at intervals, so they weren't races as such. Racing does add a dimension which simply running against the clock doesn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by fozzy
And it is possible to prefer fell racing to orienteering while still enjoying both to a certain extent ... obviously!!
Answer is simple old chap. Organise your own races so you can make it how you want it.....and take ALL the consequences!Quote:
Originally Posted by IainR
Yes I am an RO and costs depend on the race ofcourse and also whether you add an element of reward to the race, if it requires a permit, if you have to pay something to a landowner, do you require medical cover, toilet facilities....Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheeze
The RV10K Road Race has relatively high costs, because we do it right. We have costs in the 1000s just for road closures. Total costs are something around £5000 before we get an entry.
The Witton World Trials last year had minimal cost in comparison but we still had to pay for the use of the park and I think it was £200 to Rossendale and Pendle Mountain Rescue.
Total costs I think were around £400 before we got an entry.
However, the RV10K gets 1000 + entries and the World Trials was around 10% of that, so the cost per athlete isn't that different.
WP, great to hear of your efforts...Not familiar with Witton World Trials. Would you say that was a typical fell race? The racing I am familiar with has pretty much zero cost, with the main consideration being how much the RO wants to spend on prizes.
No its not.. the answer is race at the races you want to do.. like in the Lakes and Yorkshire.. then when I stop racing, or being competitive, and stop spending 4-5 months year in the US.. organise a few races...Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheeze
Every race needs to do a risk assessment. The FRA have guidelines for ROs that come under their jurisdiction.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheeze
I would not organise a race without medical cover being on standby.
We tend to use St Johns or Red Cross for Track or Road and Mountain Rescue for Cross Country and Fell.
Then there is a cost.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheeze
:D:D:w00t::p
If only you knew....
No one has ever said it was a fell race - it was a trial for the World Mountain Running Champs. The race profile was very similar to the race profile of the actual Champs race and that is the same for the Euro and World Trials at Sedbergh and Glenridding this year.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fellhound
We've had the debate before on this forum many times, is there a typical fell race? I think not. All you can really say about our races that we frequent, is that they tend to be mainly off road and include an element of ascent & descent.
Witton was a well organised trial, with fantastic racing and who would have thought you could get A category race stats at Witton Park?
To quote one top GB and England Runner who came to the trial as closely as I can(he has won races on all types of fell terrain and long and short)
Richard, you've broken me in to little pieces
which at least satisfied me that it was tough :)
Any run can be tough (like running a mile in 4 mins on a track) and you can probably get Cat A figures on any old flight of stairs but that doesn't make them fell races.Quote:
Originally Posted by Witton Park
As you more or less said, there is no typical fell race - and definition is impossible. However, we know what is and isn't and the FRA fixture secretary has always been good at deciding, subjectively, what is and what isn't, so there's no need for a debate.
I just thought Wheeze's question was funny. I live very close to Witton Park (the place) and have never thought of going fellrunning there... :D
Isn't the mighty Sarn Helen listed... 16 miles with not far off half tarmac?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fellhound
Did any of you spot this article?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environmen...es-for-courses
Thanks for that. Great little article. Happy to say I was one of 'the 100 strung out' along the tops.Quote:
Originally Posted by LissaJous
There are a few races in there that shouldn't be, and the FRA policy is currently to leave them alone as established fixtures. However, any new races trying to get into the calendar as fell races get a rather more stringent vetting....Quote:
Originally Posted by IainR
So the fixture secretary for English fell races now has to vet Welsh races as well??
Not likely - they're all Daily Mail readers on here :DQuote:
Originally Posted by LissaJous
You really are a class one idiot.. FRA promoting fell running in the UK..Quote:
Originally Posted by dominion
Thanks Iain.Quote:
Originally Posted by IainR
Is that Prince Charles in the lead?Quote:
Originally Posted by Witton Park
Thought that could be a good article till it turned into a big advert for Feet in the [Sodding] Clouds. Is Richard Askwith the spokeperson for fell running?Quote:
Originally Posted by Witton Park
Top fell runners 'mingling with their fans'? Crikey. I imagine most/all top fell runners would be slightly embarrassed by the thought of that going on.
Oh I don't know - it can be a positive experience. I've "mingled" with Rob Hope and I got the feeling he was flattered that I gave him the time of day :wink::wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by L.F.F.
This is the January article, that Graham was referring to in the original post on this thread, doing the rounds again for some reason.Quote:
Originally Posted by Witton Park
I had a quick look through the new edition of FITC today and a fellow by the name of Graham Breeze is mentioned in the Epilogue :closed:
Speak of the devil, saw Breezy flying around the Great Hill Fell race today - not much Elan in evidence :p
I enjoyed that article, made me chuckle!Quote:
Originally Posted by DrPatrickBarry
Although I neither drink from smelly bogs nor eat decomposing sheep.
Pretty sure I've read similar articles in several newspaper 'lifestyle' sections in the past year...
When did the 'to be a fell runner you must wear a buff' article sneak into the FRA rules?...
I for one wouldn't be seen dead eating a decomposing sheep wearing a buff. Buffs is for nancy trail runners, Me I've always sworn by a pair of missus's bloomers.