"Oracle of Apollo. (Greek mythology) the oracle at Delphi where a priestess supposedly delivered messages from Apollo to those who sought advice; the messages were usually obscure or ambiguous."
Well it made me smile.
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"Oracle of Apollo. (Greek mythology) the oracle at Delphi where a priestess supposedly delivered messages from Apollo to those who sought advice; the messages were usually obscure or ambiguous."
Well it made me smile.
Ann Widdecombe has joined The Brexit Party. This Brexit party is starting to look very interesting.
Noel is intelligent and has a sense of humour
I meant what I said all that time ago. I'd never ever share a tent with you. Anyway answer the question, you've had all week. Open borders, yes or no?Quote:
Originally Posted by Derby Tup
Do I support a completely open border? No. Does anyone? The devil in the detail is who and how many and why and what's the overall approach.Quote:
Originally Posted by CL
TBH, I have pretty mixed feelings about it. It would be nice if the population of England stayed the same or reduced. We could then rewild a bit and make it a nice place. But I also value the benefits of immigration (and not just the economic ones). Maybe we should be encouraging more people to leave the UK to balance things up.
Maybe a nationalist PM would cause enough people to leave...
So if I vote for Farage, it might persuade a whole load of remoaners to leave the country? It’s an enticing thought.Quote:
Originally Posted by noel
On a serious note a survey last year found that nearly 40% of Jews would seriously consider emigrating if Jeremy Corbyn became Prime Minister. A rather shocking statistic.
CL I don’t remember discussing a possible tent share with you in the past. Maybe Ms Widdecombe would double up with you instead?
Dear DT,Quote:
Originally Posted by Derby Tup
I assume "tent share" here is in the sense of "get into bed with" but is that in the metaphorical sense of a shared political philosophy or something more literal (or both) and if the latter then is this the right place for such a public declaration of mutual desire ...and isn't the Forum more interesting these days?
Mr Lonely Heart
But CL is offering to bring a cake.Quote:
Originally Posted by Derby Tup
The cake would be of you being speared by Muddy and Witton.:DQuote:
Originally Posted by DrPatrickBarry
But you told us one of the reasons for voting Remain was freedom of movement of people. You thought it a good idea. Now you are saying there should be a limit. The point I'm making - since this thread is about Nigel Farage - is actually you're no different to him.Quote:
Originally Posted by noel
Let's get off this 'persecuting bakers for refusing to bake a cake' and get back to Farage. The Daily Mail says Farage will be responsible for putting Jeremy Corbyn into power. The Guardian says Farage will be responsible for putting Boris into power. These papers really are worried for the status quo even though they see the ending slightly different.
I see a problem for Farage though. At the moment he is binding members from the left and right on the Brexit issue. But in time when other policies are brought forward these will cause big trouble.
Chris, I have looked at a random Facebook UKIP page from a random branch which happened to be Swindon. Looking at the first post of the first article I checked out the posters profile. His list of favourite websites included one called "Mosque busters" and an Enoch Powell appreciation page. Coupled with Tommy Robinson, the founder of the fascist English Defence League,connections with UKIP tells me all I need to know about Farage and his parties.
But then farage has distanced himself from UKIP because of the views. It is why the brexit party is well supported and UKIP is emptying.
To draw your connection is a little like blaming blair or even Keir Hardie for corbyns terrorist and hatred sympathies.
Brexit Party stands and falls on what it states and - just as important - what it enforces. It has kicked out unsavoury posters on social media in the upper echelons with far more speed than Labour ever has.
Sack them first, ask questions second seems to be the method, which is an approach I prefer to Labour letting people remain provided only they have hammer and sickle underpants,they bow down to corbyn twice a day and otherwise mug the faithful into line. If they do that they can spout any bile they like and not get ousted. Ask Lucinda Berger. Truly labour is the new nasty party.
Quote:
Originally Posted by William Clough
I think you are rather behind the times. That's why Farage left UKIP and formed a new party.Quote:
Originally Posted by William Clough
Quote:
Originally Posted by CL
I don't.
I think that the No1 aim is to make sure Brexit happens and to call the established parties to account.
That is why he has been able to get a coalition of left and right even if it is more tilted towards right.
It's no different to the TIGS who have a left/right coalition.
But back to the Brexit Party, I don't see it has a long term future.
If they succeed, the party will probably break up, but perhaps they might wait until after it has really been delivered this time.
I think it is likely he will open the door for a new party leader.
The Tories will tank in the 2 elections that are coming and I can't see anyway that May will survive that.
Not very scientific, but a readers poll from North Wales has the following voting intentions for the EU Elections next month.
Brexit 45%
LibDem 17%
ChangeUK 8%
Plaid Cymru 7%
Labour 7%
UKIP 5%
Tories 1%
https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/nor...paign=sharebar
meanwhile 20,000 Express readers polled and
Brexit Party - 89%
Change UK - 4%
Conservative - 0%
Green Party - 0%
Labour - 2%
Lib Dems - 1%
Ukip - 4%
Other - 0%
Clearly the Express is mostly Tories, but that is an incredible outcome even considering that.
Why would a Labour supporter read the Express? 2% haha
I suppose his problem is stopping those type of people following him from UKIP to the Brexit Party. The organisers have got to be much more strict this time about checking the history of people who stand for the party. But they have no control over those who self-declare themselves as supporters.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oracle
Racist Brexiteers can really put off "economic" Brexiteers, who guninely feel the country can do better in a less regulated environment.
Which is true, The express is primarily Tory, but consider this: a proportion of the brexit party are also disaffected labour betrayed by parliament, and since the express poll shows ALL the tories are voting brexit party as well, then the party is unstoppable. They will reek havoc in the EU with such as Le pen and Salvini.Quote:
Originally Posted by Derby Tup
Barnier decided to be as awkward as he could and frustrate all negotiations from even taking place, let alone an equitable deal. He was Completely the wrong man for he job. He should have been careful in what he wished for. He will live to regret it.
That would be incredible. Very interesting. I wonder what the odds are on the Brexit party getting a majority of MEPs then them having to sit in the European parliament for another 2 years while we ask for yet another extension.Quote:
Originally Posted by Witton Park
On that subject, I notice things have gone pretty quiet on the Brexit negotiations front. "Yes, it's very important and all that, but we'd like a few days' holiday first." There's nothing like a deadline to focus minds.
There is nothing to focus on
Eu have refused to negotiate from day one on trade, won't even negotiate the withdrawal non agreement.
MPs have stupidly backed us into a corner.
Quote:
Originally Posted by noel
I agree. That can only mean a change in the electorates mind.
Big change coming 😂🤣😂
I had a QUICK look at the Express website. It’s hilarious; I nearly BURST with laughing. I was SHOCKED
Endless rubbish about the BREXIT and the Royals but no mention of the cabinet leak. It’s little better than National Enquirer or Viz. A COMIC in fact
Please understand I am fairly contemptuous of all mainstream newspapers other than the guardian which does not even justify the title as newspaper, since it no longer tries to disguise the fact it is simply an opinion piece.Quote:
Originally Posted by Derby Tup
But you are simply not being objective:
Brexit does happen to be the most significant political event in current and recent history.
A simple search of " express huawei" shows - Three express stories broke over 24 hours ago, they broke it before any other, the most recent a cabinet ultimatum: time moves on.
Finally the royals are a major source of news ant interest other than amongst Corbyns communist republican thugs.
It also covers a massive fire at port talbot. Any objections?
You clearly are biased because other wise you would be more concerned at reading about Corbyn installing Laura murray as head of complaints arguably to increase the labour leaders office influence and tampering with anti Semitic complaints in a piece of blatant nepotism.
She like her father and boss are not fit for any office. Murrays lack of objectivity causing the libel action against her by Riley shows she is unfit for any investigative role. It is an impossible appointment Because She could arguably be there to interfere in the outcome of judicial process at corbyns behest, and at very best it destroys the illusion of any process independent of the leaders office from whence she came. That is news, considering how corbyn and momentum have already dragged labour into the gutter, now a target of equalities commission: Corbyn yet again sticking two fingers up at the Jewish community.
That is the political news story of the moment.
You don't mention it: why?
I didn’t mention Corbyn because my post was about the Express (website); specifically about the way it’s presented
I suspect your Brexit will barely scrape into the top ten news stories when our grandkids look back at the history of this century. It’s a non-event. A local skirmish on a small, not very important island that’s sadly becoming a laughing stock around the world
If you are balking at lack of objective news coverage you should question whhy Corbyn/Murray are not there
You were simply wrong about huawei. Express hammered it as a story, Like Laura Murray, you throw stones without investigation.
Brexit is the news story. Hopefully it will not remain so. It is not my brexit, Tory brexit or mays brexit. It is the democratic will of the people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derby Tup
Something we can agree onQuote:
Originally Posted by Oracle
It is a TABLOID in fact. Fancy a tabloid running stories about the Royals, whatever next?Quote:
Originally Posted by Derby Tup
By the way the leak is mentioned in this article from yesterday.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...ei-china-trade
And today, leak enquiry launched.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...vin-williamson
Incredible and not very scientific of course, but I'd say in a period where we have had almost daily poll updates, the polls seem to have dried up in the last week or so.Quote:
Originally Posted by noel
I wonder why?
My own assessment a few months back was that if we ended up in the EU elections, around 70% of Tory voters would jump ship and around 30% of Labour voters to a Brexit Party, which seems most likely The Brexit Party now.
There will also be Remainers deserting the two because of their lack of clarity, the middle ground approach doesn't work on an issue that is polarised.
Turnout will be a key factor. Pro EU might be seen as more likely to vote than Leavers.
But I can easily see a 30% + vote for the Brexit Party, Labour dropping to mid 20s and Tories maybe even under 20%
The UK contingent in the EU Parliament is already pretty anti EU as UKIP won the 2014 EU election, so the balance won't change a great deal from our perspective.
But the balance may change elsewhere, with many of the 27 becoming more Eurosceptic, not in the majority perhaps, but there is a shift.
France will be interesting. Macron wants more EU, but not sure the French public do.
DT, I really can't understand your comment that we are a small insignificant island that's becoming a laughing stock.
Like it or not we build the largest empire the world has ever seen, spread the rule of law, democracy and religion to many parts of the world and created lingua franca for global business and science. Even more than that we have managed the very difficult job of dismantling that empire as fairly as possible. Yes, terrible things happened but we did the best we could. As a result we had and retain a global standing head and shoulders above many larger countries.
I abhor all those nationalist groups. But neither will I accept this wonderful place being bad mouthed or trivialised.
full agree. I've travelled a fair amount and the UK is held in high regard wherever I go. It seems to be held in less regard more here than overseas.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheeze
I’ve travelled a fair bit too including all over Europe plus S / SE Asia and agree the UK is held in high regard in many countries. The Empire is history, as is sadly large scale manufacturing but we still have fantastic modern innovative technology. Many of my UK customers produce fantastic goods that are largely under the public radar. My concern is that we are likely to be seen as ‘smaller’ and less important outside of Europe than within. Also our indecision following the referendum farce cannot be helping out image overseas. Do we want to be in Europe or not?
Where you see indecision I only see a refusal of our political class to enact a clear democratic decision. We should be out by now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Derby Tup
By the way, at the risk of sounding like a stuck record, did anybody see Question Time last night? A 4:1 Remain panel yet again. It included Vince Cable and Caroline Lucas whose views you could barely get a fag packet between. Only Gimli the dwarf represented the Brexiteer standpoint.
Can anybody imagine a Question Time Panel that had both Nigel Farage and Jacob Rees-Mogg on it?
You should stop watching QT Muddy; it only makes you cross
I know, I've been thinking the same. :mad:Quote:
Originally Posted by Derby Tup
I've already had to give up watching Have I got news for you. My wife does't like me shouting at the telly. As I grow older I'm finding myself morphing into Inspector Grim from the Thin Blue Line.Quote:
Originally Posted by Derby Tup
Quite agree the indecision is testing everyones patience. But it does not diminish what we were or are. The future is what we make it. I think, given our island heritage and mentality we might be able to make it more suited to ourselves than if we were directed by an external superstate (I was going to say a committee of 27 but didn't want you accusing me of apeing Oracle!;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Derby Tup
I think blame should go to the right people.
Ever since day 1 barnier refused to discuss trade, or future relationship in clear violation of article 50, now refuses to discuss even the withdrawal agreement. It is this hopeless ideological intransigence that was part of why many of us Voted leave. Remain and reform is impossible because EU refuses to reform.
The indecision is the refusal of remained MPs to accept the fact we have to say no.
As regards the bigger picture , we are still a massive economy. Like Australia and Canada.
Being outside EU has done singapore no harm which is part of the vision many of us have of what we should become , when free of EU shackles. Singapore has massively outperformed the EU. And that is what terrifies EU: our succeeding and outside their control, and is why they want us tied to their customs union, so they can control us.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derby Tup