sacked

You missed the point completely stagger. I respect you.

It is not what is true , or your actual motives : it is the way it can be twisted to make you appear immoral and selfish, just as I did. The media does it as standard practice.

Cummings motives are twisted to the nastiest interpretation of what he did.

All he did was try to decide what was best for his family when struck with covid on the job.

Just as my neighbours family have decided compassion trumps rules in my neighbours case.

They too could have been turned round, fined, prosecuted or all three.
And had they been public figures they would have been pilloried for it.

I would have done what they did.


Since my wife’s family live not too Far away from where Cummings was, I might even have done what he did in similar situation. And having been told about how post viral fatigue causes problems driving which I can vouch for with covid, I would have also done a test drive before commit to return all the way.

I am Spartacus.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stagger

Oracle, your point is flawed.

It's work that won't let me in. Not me refusing to work. The day I'm informed work is open is the day I start work. Fact.

Would a sensible person test his eye sight by driving. I don't think so. A dumb excuse.

If you read all my posts I have no fear of the virus because I have no fear of death.

You have some excellent views but this time you are wrong. That's ok by me as we all make mistakes.

He was wrong to do what he did.

As adults we disagree and that is fine. I do have morals

---

Could you please explain your point as it appears difficult to understand???

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stagger

Would a sensible person test his eye sight by driving. I don't think so. A dumb excuse.

---

The problem is Trev, you have bought in to this narrative.

If you read Cummings statement he never said he tested his eyesight by driving.

You might still hold the same opinion, but it would have been formed on the basis of fact, not the skewed reporting.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Witton Park

The problem is Trev, you have bought in to this narrative.

If you read Cummings statement he never said he tested his eyesight by driving.

You might still hold the same opinion, but it would have been formed on the basis of fact, not the skewed reporting.

---

There may be some truth about the reporting.

I question his 300 mile drive. As a key worker he could/should have received child care in London.

And the day trip to the castle for what ever reason.

If he had told his bosses to start with, or held his hands up and said sorry, he would have been a more honest man.

The lies, deceit and no regret grated with me.

Its his kid.

People were going into intensive care including his boss, for all he knew it could have been both him and his wife. What happens to the kid then?

If he wants his kid looked after by family not a paid "AN other" who doesnt give a sh!t, that is cummings call, nobody else. His family were in durham. No apology needed for looking after your family first.

I had corona, and I tried driving in the week after. It wasnt fun, and I asked OH to take over. I would not have dreamed of doing a long journey without finding out whether I could on a short journey first. It is far better isolation in a private car than risking all the social contact on the train. His car was stuck in Durham.

He was also being threatened not just because of brexit, but also because he was alleged to have opposed a lockdown. That was fake news. He did not, but it didnt stop media printing it, and the inevitable scrum outside his house.

So If lies and deceit grate with you, STOP reading the guardian and other main stream media who are attacking cummings, and attack the media instead. They have been full of it on this story.

Where is your condemnation of media lies? Like the second trip that never was?
The guy who made it up, owned up to hit afterwards. Where is your condemnation of him?

Media have also commuted to durham and barnard castle, making tens of journeys between all media doing exactly what they criticise cummings for times ten!
So clearly journeys to durham are not a problem, or media would not be making them.
The scrums outside his house are in total violation of distancing.

People lap it up because they do not like cummings. You too seemingly.

As I have already pointed out, I could paint your trip to turkey in just as a bad a light.

Cracked it :)

I have noticed your reference to "OH" in many of your posts Mr Oracle and could not work it out but today the penny has finally dropped! Hurrah.

By all means refer to me as being a bit thick!

Keep up the good work.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stagger

There may be some truth about the reporting.

I question his 300 mile drive. As a key worker he could/should have received child care in London.

And the day trip to the castle for what ever reason.

If he had told his bosses to start with, or held his hands up and said sorry, he would have been a more honest man.

The lies, deceit and no regret grated with me.

---

Trev - the initial reporting alleged a police investigation, that DC had been spoken to by the Police. It talked of a second trip, it talked of seeing his parents..... it was way off and people now have acknowledged to making stuff up.

So he probably did have childcare in London as a key worker. He would certainly be entitled to it as you say.

But if he came down with COVID like some colleagues, that child care would not have been available.

He would have been at home ill, with a wife ill, with a kid.

I know someone who was in that situation with 3 kids in a terrace house. But they had family around.

So that deals with the journey to Durham which the police have no issues with.

Barnard Castle - that was because he'd been given the all clear, and he was going back to London. His wife was worried about the long journey.

She persuaded him to drive to BC for a walk and head down to London the next day. He agreed. He hasn't said it was to test his eyesight. He has said he'd been ill, it had affected his visions and that although the clinician had said he was fine to return, his wife was concerned. She wasn't sure he was fully recovered.

So the drive was instigated by Mrs C and the intent was a short drive and a walk, which was within the guidelines.

Anyway, done to death now, so on Cummings I'm out.

On a personal level, Dominic Cummings deserves some sympathy for the situation his family was in; and the behaviour of the media has been, shall we say, less than exemplary. But it is worth examining why he attracts this level of venom.

He is at the centre of Government, making policy, but he is unelected. He is not merely implementing policy decided by the elected politicians, the traditional role of civil servants. So here is a bloke who played a major role in persuading the British public that they didn't want to be governed by unelected bureaucrats in Brussels, only for them to see themselves being governed by an unelected bureaucrat in London. Oh, and he's made Boris Johnson look pathetic.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by anthonykay

He is at the centre of Government, making policy, but he is unelected. He is not merely implementing policy decided by the elected politicians, the traditional role of civil servants. So here is a bloke who played a major role in persuading the British public that they didn't want to be governed by unelected bureaucrats in Brussels, only for them to see themselves being governed by an unelected bureaucrat in London. Oh, and he's made Boris Johnson look pathetic.

---

Would Peter Mandelson have been much the same? Possibly the first "advisor come spin doctor"?
I think Mandelson was known as The Prince of Darkness for a reason, nothing new really.

Facts for our country show 90% of the people who have died are over 65 years old.

How thoughtful is it delivering your covid wife to your in laws?

As adults it's ok to have a different opinion.

Personally I think he was wrong and told lies.

I do accept that he was also badly treated.

I've personally never mentioned any 2nd trip.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stagger

Facts for our country show 90% of the people who have died are over 65 years old.

How thoughtful is it delivering your covid wife to your in laws?

---

Cummings and his wife and child self isolated in a separate cottage on the family farm. Food was left outside the door. So his parents were not at risk of contracting the virus.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stagger

Personally I think he was wrong and told lies.

---

What lies has he actually told?

I can understand why some people might think he did the wrong thing, but he hasn't denied driving from London to Durham or making the round trip to Barnard Castle. I must admit I thought his reason for the latter seemed a bit strange but we don't know that he isn't telling the truth.

We do know however that lies have been told about him, like the guy who made up seeing him in Durham on 19th April.

He said no one from his family spoke to the police.

His father actually did.

He breached guidance by making a trip to the castle, for what ever reason.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stagger

He said no one from his family spoke to the police.

---

He didn't say this.

Durham Constabulary has claimed police officers did speak to Dominic Cummings’ father following Downing Street denials there was any contact with his family over his alleged lockdown breaches.

But No 10 had said on Saturday morning: “At no stage was he [Mr Cummings] or his family spoken to about this matter, as is being reported.”

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stagger

But No 10 had said on Saturday morning: “At no stage was he [Mr Cummings] or his family spoken to about this matter, as is being reported.”

---

But what was being reported wasn't true. The Guardian had said that the police had approached Cummings about breaching the lockdown rules, which wasn't the case. It was in fact Cummings' father who contacted Durham police to seek security advice and told them about his son.

Durham police said:

"On Tuesday, March 31, our officers were made aware that Dominic Cummings had travelled from London to Durham and was present at an address in the city.

At the request of Mr Cummings' father, an officer made contact the following morning by telephone.

During that conversation, Mr Cummings' father confirmed that his son had travelled with his family from London to the North East and was self-isolating in part of the property.

Durham Constabulary deemed that no further action was required. However, the officer did provide advice in relation to security issues."

You could say that Number 10's statement was a bit misleading I suppose but the Guardian and Mirror should be taken to task for all their inaccuracies.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stagger

But No 10 had said on Saturday morning: “At no stage was he [Mr Cummings] or his family spoken to about this matter, as is being reported.”

---

Downing St 23/5 in response to Guardian who broke the story.

“At no stage was he or his family spoken to by the police about this matter, as is being reported."

as your quote.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politi...after-22072579

Headline in the Mirror 22/5 at 8:00pm by P{iipa Crerar

"Dominic Cummings investigated by police after breaking coronavirus lockdown rules"

He wasn't.

Next!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Muddy Retriever

You could say that Number 10's statement was a bit misleading I suppose but the Guardian and Mirror should be taken to task for all their inaccuracies.

---

100% agree. The press and media are shocking.

Also the numptys who thought it was a joke to get a bloke in serious trouble by making false allegations.

Fact:- his father contacted Durham police, who went round to pay a visit. TRUE

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Muddy Retriever

You could say that Number 10's statement was a bit misleading I suppose but the Guardian and Mirror should be taken to task for all their inaccuracies.

---

100% agree. The press and media are shocking.

Also the numptys who thought it was a joke to get a bloke in serious trouble by making false allegations.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Marco

Yes, Peter Mandelson was pretty much the same, but he was sacked. Twice. And that's the big difference

---

But Peter Mandelson was an elected MP. The nearest equivalent to Cummings in the Blair government would be Alastair Campbell.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stagger

Fact:- his father contacted Durham police, who went round to pay a visit. TRUE

---

He called them, they called him back, not called round.

He said, she said, who cares? The whole country knows he was wrong, the others who have done similar have by and large held their hand up, DC, BoJo n Gove took a few days and came up with a matter of fact story, Bo Jo N Gove getting their we didn't know (mebee) giving them plausible deniability should this turn sour, believe what you think is correct. but DC, as one of our Guiding Lights, should have spoken to the P&DP team as he was so worried for his and his families safety, end of controversy.

DC can hardly complain of media smoke and mirrors, I am sure he has done similar in the none too distant past.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Steph

The whole country knows he was wrong

---

you haven't been following this have you :rolleyes:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Witton Park

you haven't been following this have you :rolleyes:

---

Yes I have, lol, as usual some good points and info references. Interestingly when I speak to people they agree DC was wrong, although how wrong usually depends on political affiliation. Perhaps keyboards are to blame.

I listened to their press briefings and it didn't quite hang together for me. Not the right or wrong of what he did but DC's poor communication with his govt bosses and failing to involve the team who look after their safety and security, if that is how it happened I wouldn't want him in my team, or running the country.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Steph

Yes I have, lol, as usual some good points and info references. Interestingly when I speak to people they agree DC was wrong, although how wrong usually depends on political affiliation. Perhaps keyboards are to blame.

I listened to their press briefings and it didn't quite hang together for me. Not the right or wrong of what he did but DC's poor communication with his govt bosses and failing to involve the team who look after their safety and security, if that is how it happened I wouldn't want him in my team, or running the country.

---

That post doesn't quite chime with "The whole country knows he was wrong"

Interesting on the political affiliation.

This is what I find.
anti-Tory criticise him almost without exception.
ant--Brexit ditto
Pro Tory - a significant % are critical
Pro Brexit - a significant % are critical
examples being pundits Julia Hartley-Brewer and Tim Montgomerie.

It seems that someone politically opposed to the Johnson led Tories has difficulty cutting him some slack.

But they other way around when it was Stephen Kinnock, Kinnock's political opponents still found it within themselves to support him.

I think it tends to show we are splitting between Libertarian and Statist. Leftist libertarians like Claire Fox and Paul Embery are aligned with Tory libertarians like Douglas Carswell.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Witton Park

That post doesn't quite chime with "The whole country knows he was wrong"

Interesting on the political affiliation.

This is what I find.
anti-Tory criticise him almost without exception.
ant--Brexit ditto
Pro Tory - a significant % are critical
Pro Brexit - a significant % are critical
examples being pundits Julia Hartley-Brewer and Tim Montgomerie.

It seems that someone politically opposed to the Johnson led Tories has difficulty cutting him some slack.

But they other way around when it was Stephen Kinnock, Kinnock's political opponents still found it within themselves to support him.

I think it tends to show we are splitting between Libertarian and Statist. Leftist libertarians like Claire Fox and Paul Embery are aligned with Tory libertarians like Douglas Carswell.

---

So on closer examination the lynch mob with their blind blood lust - do actually discriminate and don't just like lynching for the sake of it?

Who would have thought?:confused:

But then nobody high profile has done similar.
If you care about the nuances.

Stephen kinnock and parents didnt have Covid, totally voluntary violation.
The labour MP went to a birthday party! That was a disgrace.
It gets worse. Corbyn voluntarily took his wife into parliament in violation of her right to leave home, held a garden party for his sons, and did a group bike ride.

UNLIKE any of them, Cummings had to do something. Events forced his hand. He was forced to isolate somewhere, and considering his boss went in intensive care, which could have been both him and his wife, they had a kid to look after who would have been excluded from any childcare if they were symptomatic.
So in the interests of the kid they went to the place they could expect care if needs be. His parents. He was already being threatended on the doorstep because of false accusations, such is the baying mob and the inaction of police over harassment. That too will have played a part.

The decision will have been made quickly. And it was out of the question to discuss it with anyone. It would have been taken out of his hands very quickly. I suspect his wife guided the decision more than anyone else, on totally understandable grounds. He is a father first, a civil servant second.

Bravo for him putting his family first. And for working whilst many public sector are shirking at home.

Only people who do not know or hate cummings claim "there are similar cases" that "apologised" . There are no similar cases. And the whole country dont know he was wrong. Only the overly vociferous media and cummings haters.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Steph

He said, she said, who cares? The whole country knows he was wrong, the others who have done similar have by and large held their hand up, DC, BoJo n Gove took a few days and came up with a matter of fact story, Bo Jo N Gove getting their we didn't know (mebee) giving them plausible deniability should this turn sour, believe what you think is correct. but DC, as one of our Guiding Lights, should have spoken to the P&DP team as he was so worried for his and his families safety, end of controversy.

DC can hardly complain of media smoke and mirrors, I am sure he has done similar in the none too distant past.

---

Is Cummings related to you Oracle?

While I would not align myself with many of Oracles proclamations, on this occasion I must say I agree with him. Cummings mistake was not to get clearance from a higher authority. But time and circumstances may well have forced his hand or induced a panic. Imagine YOUR state of mind if you had to run the gauntlet of a baying mob every time you came home. And if all your closest colleagues were dropping like flies with a potentially lethal disease?

A 6 hour drive. Car phone??

I accept he put family first in some aspects,
But
In others he made bad choices.

On the old forum we would have just had a poll and the decision would have been made by a majority.

Now there's a thought! 49/51% split!!:D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wheeze

Now there's a thought! 49/51% split!!:D

---

Correct. I can go with a majority

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Graham Breeze

So on closer examination the lynch mob with their blind blood lust - do actually discriminate and don't just like lynching for the sake of it?

Who would have thought?:confused:

---

The point I was trying to make, but seemingly failed, is that one side seems to object en masse to a perceived misdemeanour by the other - highlight by Cummings - but that the other side tends not to - as highlighted by the reaction to Kinnock, where he was largely defended by Libertarians who were often opponents of him. Meanwhile because he was one of theirs, the statists kept quiet, seemingly embarrassed to get involved.

Ha ha ha and the stories keep running:-

The PM's adviser stayed with his family in what he said was a "cottage" on his parents' farm in Durham, in April.

The only planning applications listed on the council's website for the farm are for a roof over a swimming pool in 2001, and the removal of various trees.

Durham County Council and a local MP have received a number of complaints.

GUILTY

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-53001428

But once again Teflon and his family find it doesn't stick.